Collapse in support for leaving EU in member states since Brexit, new data shows

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, MRToMRT said:

The decision to shut down the planes engines did not kill any of the passengers, it was the pilot's poor landing skills. :+)

Every landing is a controlled crash...

Brexit was most definitely not.

[JonnyF]

25 minutes ago, RayC said:

In order to be consistent, I assume that you are just as outraged by the corruption in the UK parliament?

Of course, if there was anything on the scale of the recent EU scandal I would be horrified.

 

But of course, UK citizens can directly vote for their MP's and those MP's have real power, unlike the members of the European Parliament who can't even pass laws.

 

How many UK citizens directly voted for Eva Kaili as VP? Oh no no no, there are many layers in place between the electorate and the likes of Kaili. That's the way it's been designed. Give the appearance of democracy without actually allowing the voters much say in any of the senior positions that hold the real power.

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/12/13/the-eu-is-rotten-to-the-core/

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/07/15/1-for-democracy-against-the-eu/

 

 

 

 

[RayC]

15 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Of course, if there was anything on the scale of the recent EU scandal I would be horrified.

And what scale is that? You clearly have no intention of waiting for the evidence to emerge before making your judgement.

 

The enormity of the proven scale of this corruption investigation so far extends to 1 serving MEP, 1 former MEP, 1 parliamentary aide and 1 lobbyist. To date, €600k has been recovered.

 

The seriousness of this scandal should not be downplayed, and it would be naive to think that further corruption will not be revealed; however, so far the sum involved is not much higher than recent scandals in the UK. Indeed, corruption involving one serving MEP is dwarfed by the number of Westminster MPs caught up in the Expenses scandal.

15 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

But of course, UK citizens can directly vote for their MP's

And of course, EU citizens DIRECTLY vote for their MEPs. 

 

15 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

and those MP's have real power, unlike the members of the European Parliament who can't even pass laws.

Incorrect.

 

Commission proposals cannot become EU law unless they are passed by Parliament and the Council.

 

15 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

How many UK citizens directly voted for Eva Kaili as VP?

(Typo). Greek citizens voted for Kaili as one of their MEPs. Her parliamentary colleagues voted her VP.

 

How many UK citizens directly voted for Hunt as Chancellor or any other UK ministers?

 

15 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Oh no no no, there are many layers in place between the electorate and the likes of Kaili. That's the way it's been designed. Give the appearance of democracy without actually allowing the voters much say in any of the senior positions that hold the real power.

And the UK differs how exactly?

 

15 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/12/13/the-eu-is-rotten-to-the-core/

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/07/15/1-for-democracy-against-the-eu/

 

 

 

 

Ah, Spiked! That bastion of individualism without any sense of responsibility or accountability (Anarchy) and a loose regard for the facts.

 

If I remember correctly, they tried to  blame the EU for Russia's invasion of Ukraine The only surprise is that they haven't blamed the EU for the Covid pandemic (or did I miss that?). Maybe they are still working that angle?

[Phoenix Rising]

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Stockholm syndrome.

 

I guess these EU countries don't care about the corruption engulfing the EU. They're welcome to it. Britain was always a leader, not a follower.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1717669/qatargate-european-parliament-brexit-news-eva-kaili-ben-habib-eu-brussels

 

Oh, they do care. That's why it's being investigated and the perpetrators will be brought to justice. They also care about the unmitigated s**t show that is the UK after Brexit and they certainly want no part of it.

How are the fantastic trade deals going, BTW? Last time I read anything about it it was (I think) Lesotho that had you over a barrel in a trade dispute. Well done!

[RayC]

Two of the pillars of the Brexiter argument are that 1) the EU is corrupt and 2) the EU is undemocratic.

 

Re 1) the current scandal appears to indicate that certain individuals within the European parliament are corrupt. However, how widespread this corruption is remains to be seen. If it is an isolated incident involving a few individuals, then it is no worse than what has been seen at Westminster over the years. Sadly, imo it is impossible to completely eradicate corruption.

 

Re 2) could the EU constitutional  processes be improved. Almost certainly. But then those governing the UK constitution are far from perfect. The first-past-the-post system is heavily weighted against the smaller parties. There is an unelected second house, which is largely comprised of an unholy mix of individuals placed there because of their birth or because of their political patronage. Senior civil servants are chosen - or removed - by the government often because of their political leanings rather than their ability. And this is supposedly an improvement on the anti-democratic EU!?

[Bluespunk]

20 hours ago, Scott said:

There has been a stark drop in support for leaving the European Union in member states across the continent in the aftermath of the Brexit vote in the United Kingdom, new data shows.

Good to see that it is possible for nations and people to learn from other’s mistakes. 

[billd766]

18 hours ago, placeholder said:

It's a common refrain from Brexiters that the departure of the UK from the EU presaged the collapse of the entire EU. Instead, the UK has served as an object lesson that establishes the foolishness of leaving the EU.

IMHO it shows the vindictiveness of the EU,

[billd766]

9 hours ago, placeholder said:

Apart from canceling brexit or continuing in some sort of special affiliation with the EU, what could the British government have done to ease the pain of brexit?

I think to know the answer to that question you would have to know every rule and every regulation to every question and answer that happened during the negotiations.

 

Here is a sample of what Brexit was about.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brexit_negotiations

 

I couldn't read it all as my eyes glazed over about half way down. 

 

The EU stuck with one main negotiator, Michel Barnier, while the UK had David Davis

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-brexit-negotiators-of-christmas-past-david-frost/

 

David Davis, Olly Robbins, Dominic Raab, Steve Barclay, David Frost v1.0, Michael Gove, David Frost again, Liz Truss.

 

All led by a pro EU PM, Theresa May.

 

That lot reminds me of an old folk song,

 

"Tom Pearce, Tom Pearce, lend me your grey mare,

All along, down along, out along, lee,

For I want for to go to Widecombe Fair,

With Bill Brewer, Jan Stewer, Peter Gurney,

Peter Davy, Dan'l Whiddon, Harry Hawke,

Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all,

Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all."

 

 

 

 

Could the UK have done better? I think so but that is only my opinion.

[dunroaming]

9 hours ago, placeholder said:

Apart from canceling brexit or continuing in some sort of special affiliation with the EU, what could the British government have done to ease the pain of brexit?

The Brexit that people voted for was based on a series of lies.  It has been shown over and over again and yet the people responsible for those lies have never been called to account and never will be.  Consequently Brexit could never work but still many people are in denial. I understand that, nobody likes to admit that they have been conned.

 

So what next?  Those in the government who are still trying to claim that Brexit is a success are rapidly falling by the wayside with all the fantastic new trade deals are not worth the paper they are written on.  Illegal immigration continues to rise and we have recruitment campaigns in Africa, India and other non EU countries to try to shore up the exodus of EU workers.  The NHS is just about at breaking point thanks to many of the doctors and nurses returning to their own countries in the EU.

 

Brexit is not the cause of all of the UK's woes but it means that moving forward is much harder than most of our neighbours.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Hardly a surprise given supporters of BREXIT don’t even like it being mentioned these days.

[candide]

7 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Of course, if there was anything on the scale of the recent EU scandal I would be horrified.

 

But of course, UK citizens can directly vote for their MP's and those MP's have real power, unlike the members of the European Parliament who can't even pass laws.

 

How many UK citizens directly voted for Eva Kaili as VP? Oh no no no, there are many layers in place between the electorate and the likes of Kaili. That's the way it's been designed. Give the appearance of democracy without actually allowing the voters much say in any of the senior positions that hold the real power.

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/12/13/the-eu-is-rotten-to-the-core/

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/07/15/1-for-democracy-against-the-eu/

 

 

 

 

So what? How many voters from Lancashire voted to elect Sunak as MP?

Edited January 13, 2023 by candide

[bendejo]

15 hours ago, placeholder said:

Don't you understand that there's something endearingly cozy and Dickensian about UK corruption?

Also a shoutout to Threepenny Opera; it was written by a German, set in Victorian London, but certain persons in Germany saw it as about themselves and the rest is history.  Fagin and Macheath may be fictional but they live on, like Iago.

Has the tune "The Bulging Pocket Makes the Easy Life" been translated into Thai? ????

 

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

On 1/13/2023 at 12:00 AM, RichardColeman said:

I voted Brexit - but i'd rather have 50,000 europeans than 50,000 asian and african economic migrants

Really ?

So if you had an accident in the UK and you woke up in hospital , you would rather have a Bulgarian nurse  attending to you, rather than a Filipino nurse  ?

   I personally wouldn't be bothered about where any person comes from , Asian and African people are just as developed and competent  these days as Europeans