Landlord who refuses to do TM30

[GringoSteve]

Hello, I'm in the bizarre situation that my Chinese landlord despite being repeatedly asked refuses or rather says "too busy" to do a TM30 on myself.

He manages 60 rooms in Pattaya and Jomtien. 

These rooms according to him belong to his Chinese friends and he gives the impression that the rules don't apply to him.

I've told him about TM30.io website, that he can do it online for free...but he says he cannot do.

I've no doubt the majority of the people he rents to do not do 90 day reporting, so I'm not his usual type of guest, I'm here full time on 1yr retirement extensions.

I've shown him the Thai Immigration rules, I explain that he should have done it in the first 24 hours, I've now been in present condo for 5 weeks and I have a 90 day report looming.

We exchanged some slightly heated remarks and he's left it that "he's done his best for me, no one forced me to move in and if I don't like it, he doesn't care".

I've also been asking to get a rental contract sorted with him, but again "he's too busy".

Of course the easy answer is move out, but I've been in Thailand 16 months and peace and quiet is very important to me and this place in Jomtien is by far the quietest I've had in that time, so I'm loathe to just move out.

Because I don't have rental contract and even if I did the address wouldn't match their current records because of the lack of TM30, I can't get residency cert and so cannot buy and register a vehicle.

I will either go to immigration on Monday or a visa agent to assist, maybe that's best?

Any useful suggestions? 

[FriendlyFarang]

Why don’t you have a rental contract? How do you know he is even the owner of the condo?

[IvorBiggun2]

Just ignore your landlord. It's him they will fine, not you. His problem.

[sqwakvfr]

Several years ago I saw this transpire at CNX immigration:

 

1. Family of four were renting a house but the landlord was out of the country.  

2. The family wanted to extend their visas. 

3. A TM-30 had not been filed.

4. The family could not extend their visas until the TM-30 was filed.

5. The landlord would not respond when the renters tried to contact him.

 

The solution was for the the family to pay a 6400 Baht fine and get the the extension.  Why 6400 Baht? 1600 per passport holder X 4 = 6400.

 

Welcome to LOS, where someone must pay the fine.  

Edited January 14, 2023 by sqwakvfr

[GringoSteve]

2 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

Why don’t you have a rental contract? How do you know he is even the owner of the condo?

As stated he is the manager not the owner. Also as stated I've asked to do rental contract....but it never happens again because he says "too busy"

[GringoSteve]

3 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

Several years ago I saw this transpire at CNX immigration:

 

1. Family of four were renting a house but the landlord was out of the country.  

2. The family wanted to extend their visas. 

3. A TM-30 had not been filed.

4. The family could not extend their visas until the TM-30 was filed.

5. The landlord would not respond when the renters tried to contact him.

 

The solution was for the the family to pay a 6400 Baht fine and get the the extension.  Why 6400 Baht? 1600 per passport holder X 4 = 6400.

 

Welcome to LOS, where someone must pay the fine.  

Yes, I've done some reading and Immigrations attitude does seem to be that if you know your TM30 has not been done you have a responsibility/liability also.

[Woof999]

Landlord (or their "agent" in your case) to tenant relationship needs to be at least amicable. It doesn't matter how much you like the condo, it sounds like this situation is going to create headaches for you non-stop.

 

You should absolutely have a signed rental agreement before you move in and absolutely before you hand over any deposit. "Too busy" just doesn't cut it for something so important. They will also be too busy when you need anything else, such as repairs.

 

If I were in this situation I would cut my losses and move to another condo in the same area, if there is one.

[clearance]

Ask him for the login to Section38 mobile app and register yourself. If he doesn't have one, try to register this address by yourself in the app. In 2020 when the owner was overseas I registered the address where I live in Section38 and reported myself, only needed the owner's passport scan for this as I remember. Done many 90-days reports and visa extension with this report, no questions asked.

Edited January 14, 2023 by clearance

[GringoSteve]

2 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

Landlord (or their "agent" in your case) to tenant relationship needs to be at least amicable. It doesn't matter how much you like the condo, it sounds like this situation is going to create headaches for you non-stop.

 

You should absolutely have a signed rental agreement before you move in and absolutely before you hand over any deposit. "Too busy" just doesn't cut it for something so important. They will also be too busy when you need anything else, such as repairs.

 

If I were in this situation I would cut my losses and move to another condo in the same area, if there is one.

Yes, I agree in principle but with my experience of noisy condos it suited me to live here for a month to decide IF I wanted a rental contract.

For me, signing a contract and then discovering it's noisy is no good. You can only tell what a place is like to live with a few weeks experience.

I'm sure we've all signed rental contracts and regretted it.?

As for deposits, I never expect to get them back, that's why I will only ever do one month deposit.

[GringoSteve]

8 minutes ago, clearance said:

Ask him for the login to Section38 mobile app and register yourself. If he doesn't have one, try to register this address by yourself in the app. In 2020 when the owner was overseas I registered the address where I live in Section38 and reported myself, only needed the owner's passport scan for this as I remember. Done many 90-days reports and visa extension with this report, no questions asked.

Thanks, so do you create account/log in as yourself or as owner?

[Salerno]

1 minute ago, GringoSteve said:

Thanks, so do you create account/log in as yourself or as owner?

You can register as possessor and do the TM30 yourself - but, the issue you have remains, getting copies of owners ID, blue book etc.

[clearance]

4 minutes ago, GringoSteve said:

Thanks, so do you create account/log in as yourself or as owner?

Yep. I got permission from the owner to do it of course. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by clearance

[GringoSteve]

2 minutes ago, clearance said:

Yep. I got permission from the owner to do it of course. 

ok, thanks....can't see that happening ????

[GringoSteve]

5 minutes ago, Salerno said:

You can register as possessor and do the TM30 yourself - but, the issue you have remains, getting copies of owners ID, blue book etc.

Yes it's a BIG but !!

[zzzzz]

use https://tm30.io/

By urself>>
dont need anything but ur passport <
copy and print screen shot 

[GringoSteve]

17 minutes ago, zzzzz said:

use https://tm30.io/

By urself>>
dont need anything but ur passport <
copy and print screen shot 

It's for owners, agents etc NOT renters.

I can't describe myself as owner/manager....maybe as possessor but I think that's stretching a point.

Edited January 14, 2023 by GringoSteve
update

[DrJack54]

3 hours ago, GringoSteve said:

Any useful suggestions? 

These threads come up often 

With zero cooperation from owner/manager and no lease what advice are you expecting.

More often these posts are related to Airbnb etc. 

You asked for useful suggestions and you seem to want to stay put. 

 

I suggest you contact an agent to look for a "get around".

Fortunately plenty of good ones in Pattaya.

 

Hopefully folk read about these threads and check on lease and TM30 prior to commiting to moving in.

 

We have a few rentals in Bangkok and TM30, lease etc is handled by real estate agent.

 

Short cuts usually end in pain. 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, GringoSteve said:

It's for owners, agents etc NOT renters.

I can't describe myself as owner/manager....maybe as possessor but I think that's stretching a point.

I've always understood that "possessor" in these discussions here in Thailand pretty much comes down to being translated at "occupant," which you are.

 

But at some point, Thai Immigration may demand from you either a signed lease and/or a copy of the owner's legal ID, signed by the owner.

 

I believe I did the "possessor" deal for TM30 registration at some point in the past. But I had a signed lease and signed copy of my owner's Thai ID.

 

[Salerno]

1 hour ago, GringoSteve said:

I can't describe myself as owner/manager....maybe as possessor but I think that's stretching a point.

It's not. As I said before, you can register as the possessor but you still need copies of the owners docs.

[GringoSteve]

26 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

These threads come up often 

With zero cooperation from owner/manager and no lease what advice are you expecting.

More often these posts are related to Airbnb etc. 

You asked for useful suggestions and you seem to want to stay put. 

 

I suggest you contact an agent to look for a "get around".

Fortunately plenty of good ones in Pattaya.

 

Hopefully folk read about these threads and check on lease and TM30 prior to commiting to moving in.

 

We have a few rentals in Bangkok and TM30, lease etc is handled by real estate agent.

 

Short cuts usually end in pain. 

 

"Short cuts end in pain" Yes in general I'd have to agree with you, but....... In my 3.5 yrs since leaving UK and experience of 33 different accommodations in 4 different countries signing a long term lease/contract without living in it first is total madness. I would never do it now. You can look over a rental, it can have lots of new shiny appliances and modern shiny surfaces and multiple glowing reviews, but those aren't worth a damn till you've lived in it.

I think anyone considering a long term rental should at least try to find a very close airbnb/booking.com rental and live there first.

I can only go by my own experience. If people have been lucky enough to sign a lease blind and have a good place then good luck to them.

 

I'm not really short cutting, I didn't write the whole story because fundamentally it's not relevant. TM30 should be done in first 24 hrs end of discussion.

I had no reason to think he wouldn't do another for this place in Jomtien because I lived in his other main building in Pattaya for 2 weeks before signing a 3 month contract, 2 months in, I moved here as it became vacant and he told me it was much quieter, which is spot on. The TM30 was done there because I did an online 90 day report with no issue and his asst took copy of my passport and visa. Which makes the current situation even more crazy.

 

As someone else said it has no good outcome, so I've almost resigned myself to finding another place, probably a house inland.

Or maybe relocate elsewhere. 

 

 

 

[proton]

Tell him you are too busy to pay the rent!

[GringoSteve]

7 minutes ago, Salerno said:

It's not. As I said before, you can register as the possessor but you still need copies of the owners docs.

Sorry, yes you're quite right you did say "possessor"

Well at the moment there is total silence from the manager.....I'll go to a visa agent tomorrow, there's one that advertises that she's ex Jomtien immigration, see what her take is on the situation. Then maybe ask manager for owners docs.

[GringoSteve]

2 minutes ago, proton said:

Tell him you are too busy to pay the rent!

Nice !!

or that "I don't care"

[soi3eddie]

5 hours ago, Woof999 said:

You should absolutely have a signed rental agreement before you move in and absolutely before you hand over any deposit. "Too busy" just doesn't cut it for something so important. They will also be too busy when you need anything else, such as repairs.

Very sensible advice. I would even insist on there being a clause in the rental contract regarding the timely filing of a TM30 (or other info required by authorities). If they refuse that then you know not to pay a deposit or move in otherwise could be in an impossible situation as is the OP @GringoSteve.  

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by soi3eddie

[JoseThailand]

...

Edited January 14, 2023 by JoseThailand

[SuperSilverHaze]

Putting aside TM30 if you don't have a contract how can you stay here on O visa extension?

 

If it's a one time gone6so what. If it may repeat then move.

 

Simples

[SuperSilverHaze]

5 hours ago, GringoSteve said:

"Short cuts end in pain" Yes in general I'd have to agree with you, but....... In my 3.5 yrs since leaving UK and experience of 33 different accommodations in 4 different countries signing a long term lease/contract without living in it first is total madness. I would never do it now. You can look over a rental, it can have lots of new shiny appliances and modern shiny surfaces and multiple glowing reviews, but those aren't worth a damn till you've lived in it.

I think anyone considering a long term rental should at least try to find a very close airbnb/booking.com rental and live there first.

I can only go by my own experience. If people have been lucky enough to sign a lease blind and have a good place then good luck to them.

 

I'm not really short cutting, I didn't write the whole story because fundamentally it's not relevant. TM30 should be done in first 24 hrs end of discussion.

I had no reason to think he wouldn't do another for this place in Jomtien because I lived in his other main building in Pattaya for 2 weeks before signing a 3 month contract, 2 months in, I moved here as it became vacant and he told me it was much quieter, which is spot on. The TM30 was done there because I did an online 90 day report with no issue and his asst took copy of my passport and visa. Which makes the current situation even more crazy.

 

As someone else said it has no good outcome, so I've almost resigned myself to finding another place, probably a house inland.

Or maybe relocate elsewhere. 

 

 

 

Thinking too mutt

 

Finding an Airbnb first, how ridiculous. You just need to be clever enough to see, hear, smell potential problems. Of course, many unknowable. If it turns out horrible - move.

[scubascuba3]

Before moving in you agree the owner\manager\agent will do TM30 or any fines that you suffer will be taken out of rent, so in your case you shouldn't have moved in, schoolboy error

[bbi1]

Why hasn't anyone suggested the usual response of just staying at a hotel for a night and then getting the hotel to register your address and print a screenshot before going to immigration? Seems like the easiest & best solution.

[DrJack54]

5 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

Why hasn't anyone suggested the usual response of just staying at a hotel for a night and then getting the hotel to register your address and print a screenshot before going to immigration? Seems like the easiest & best solution.

That is certainly an option for a tourist with (for example) plan to go to immigration and obtain a 30 day extension to eg Tourist Visa.

 

No so applicable to someone living in Thailand.

The OP mentions doing 90 day report.

Perhaps even obtaining a residence certificate. 

For this situation best to have a lease or TM30 with address where you are living ongoing. 

 

I don't buy into his rental arrangements.

We rent out couple of condo and townhouse.  

The agent does the TM30 (if required for non Thai tenant) and of course a Lease. 

Our minimum lease is 12 months however a zillion rentals available in Thailand that have much shorter.

 

Bit off topic suggestion to anyone looking for permanent (ongoing) rental. 

We rent apartment in Bangkok. Low rise.

No rooms are privately owned.

We have one year lease.

The place is extremely strict so no sub letting while you are away etc etc.

I couldn't imagine living in condos such as View Talay 6 (Pattaya) or eg Trendy building Sukhumvit.

Those type of places are mad houses. 

 

The OP chose poorly.