UK economy only G7 nation to shrink in 2023 - IMF

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16 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Still waiting for all the old people to die ?

Do you believe they're immortal?

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 

Do you believe they're immortal?

How many have died so far and how many left to go ?

[RayC]

There have been a number of reports  - e.g. OBR, LSE, FT; links for all these studies have been supplied numerous times previously - which have concluded that Brexit has negatively affected the UK economically. 

 

Brexiters might not like the contents of these reports but the onus is on them to explain why the conclusions reached are not valid.

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Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

How many have died so far and how many left to go ?

A lot more of them have died than have the rising generations. The votes was 52-48%

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rate-by-age-group-in-england-and-wales

[youreavinalaff]

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, how exactly does one prove a negative like that? I'm sure there must be some economic benefits to Brexit. At the moment, I can't come up with what they might be.

Thanks for confirmation.

 

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Or maybe you could abandon your reflexive snobbism. 

Snobbism? Just I believe Wiki is not cast in stone? Funny.

[Mac Mickmanus]

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

A lot more of them have died than have the rising generations. The votes was 52-48%

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rate-by-age-group-in-england-and-wales

But do you realise that when Remainers get to be the majority in the UK  , the UK then will not automatically re-join the E.U ?

   Maybe you don't know that it was a one off referendum and so its irrelevant that all the leave voters have died , because there wont be another referendum and the UK will not be  re joining the E.U 

[transam]

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

A lot more of them have died than have the rising generations. The votes was 52-48%

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rate-by-age-group-in-england-and-wales

Bringing deaths into this subject is daft, you don't know what would happen if there were another referendum, which I doubt will happen anyway, unless the Lib Dems get in............

Which is as doubtful as another referendum.....

[placeholder]

30 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Thanks for confirmation.

 

Snobbism? Just I believe Wiki is not cast in stone? Funny.

If it wasn't snobism, what prevented you from clicking on the link and seeing the source?

[RayC]

15 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

But do you realise that when Remainers get to be the majority in the UK  , the UK then will not automatically re-join the E.U ?

   Maybe you don't know that it was a one off referendum and so its irrelevant that all the leave voters have died , because there wont be another referendum and the UK will not be  re joining the E.U 

Do you really think that IF the political economy in the UK continues on its' current trajectory or gets worse, that there is no possibility of a UK government applying to rejoin the EU at some point in the 2030s?

[transam]

4 minutes ago, RayC said:

Do you really think that IF the political economy in the UK continues on its' current trajectory or gets worse, that there is no possibility of a UK government applying to rejoin the EU at some point in the 2030s?

We may not be here in the 2030s, plus, nobody knows what the future holds regarding anything in the 2030s, except death....????

[youreavinalaff]

45 minutes ago, placeholder said:

If it wasn't snobism, what prevented you from clicking on the link and seeing the source?

The source is on your post. A link to Wikipedia. No need to click.

[youreavinalaff]

42 minutes ago, RayC said:

Do you really think that IF the political economy in the UK continues on its' current trajectory or gets worse, that there is no possibility of a UK government applying to rejoin the EU at some point in the 2030s?

I don't believe there will be an application to rejoin.

 

If there were an application, i dont believe the UK would be back in during the 2030s. The EU will make it painfully slow and expensive for UK to re join.

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

The source is on your post. A link to Wikipedia. No need to click.

Apparently, there is a need. Since you dismissed the information on the basis that it came via Wikipedia.

[Mac Mickmanus]

16 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I don't believe there will be an application to rejoin.

 

If there were an application, i dont believe the UK would be back in during the 2030s. The EU will make it painfully slow and expensive for UK to re join.

I doubt the British public would want to go through all that again , took about four years last time to get sorted out

[youreavinalaff]

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Apparently, there is a need. Since you dismissed the information on the basis that it came via Wikipedia.

Incorrect. 

 

[stevenl]

17 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I don't believe there will be an application to rejoin.

 

If there were an application, i dont believe the UK would be back in during the 2030s. The EU will make it painfully slow and expensive for UK to re join.

The EU politicians want to be important. The bigger the EU is the more important they are. These revenge feelings I only hear from the UK side.

The EU will not make it more difficult than necessary.

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

The EU politicians want to be important. The bigger the EU is the more important they are. These revenge feelings I only hear from the UK side.

The EU will not make it more difficult than necessary.

May I ask how you know how the E.U will proceed ?

Are you in regular contact with the E.U leaders in Brussels ?

Do you often attend meetings in Brussels and discuss that topic with other E.U politicians ?

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

May I ask how you know how the E.U will proceed ?

Are you in regular contact with the E.U leaders in Brussels ?

Do you often attend meetings in Brussels and discuss that topic with other E.U politicians ?

Ask the poster I replied to. He gave his opinion, I answered with mine.

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, stevenl said:

Ask the poster I replied to. He gave his opinion, I answered with mine.

OK, its was just an opinion, rather than an actual fact .

Maybe you should have started the sentence with *I don't think that * ?

 

"The EU will not make it more difficult than necessary."

[youreavinalaff]

14 minutes ago, stevenl said:

The EU politicians want to be important. The bigger the EU is the more important they are. These revenge feelings I only hear from the UK side.

The EU will not make it more difficult than necessary.

Exactly right. The EU is a pedestal for EU politicians. It's there to help them feel important 

 

All the more reason not to be part of it.

[stevenl]

7 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

OK, its was just an opinion, rather than an actual fact .

Maybe you should have started the sentence with *I don't think that * ?

 

"The EU will not make it more difficult than necessary."

Tell that to the poster I replied to. It was clearly his opinion to which I answered with clearly my opinion. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by stevenl

[Bkk Brian]

33 minutes ago, stevenl said:

The EU politicians want to be important. The bigger the EU is the more important they are. These revenge feelings I only hear from the UK side.

The EU will not make it more difficult than necessary.

I believe you're right, under the right conditions the EU would have no problem with Britain rejoining, this from just 3 days ago

 

UK can rejoin EU ‘any time’, says Michel Barnier

The door is open for Britain to rejoin the EU “any time”, Michel Barnier said on Wednesday - before warning the UK not to tear up Brussels regulations after Brexit.

Mr Barnier, the former Brexit negotiator, said diverging too far from EU rules now would make it more difficult for Britain to rejoin the bloc in future.

“The door to the EU side will remain open any time for you,” he said. “Though everybody knows the conditions.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/01/uk-can-rejoin-eu-time-says-michel-barnier/

[RayC]

34 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I don't believe there will be an application to rejoin.

 

If there were an application, i dont believe the UK would be back in during the 2030s. The EU will make it painfully slow and expensive for UK to re join.

Of course, it's conjecture on both our parts but if a Labour government is returned at the next election, I can see relations with the EU improving and off the record, "just suppose we were to apply" type conversations taking place.

 

Imo the earliest possible date for a referendum would be 2031 with membership following 2 - 4 years later. That it is a best possible scenario from my perspective and point of view: It wouldn't surprise me if an application to rejoin happened towards the end of the '30s with membership following in the early '40s.

 

I don't think that the EU would deliberately make the process painfully slow, but I'd imagine that they would want some guarantees about commitment which a UK government might be unwilling - or more likely, unable - to commit to and would need ironing out.

 

So far as it being more expensive. Quite probably. I doubt that we will get the same deal we had in 2016. Makes you wonder why we left, doesn't it?????

 

16 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

 

 

[RayC]

43 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I doubt the British public would want to go through all that again , took about four years last time to get sorted out

Currently no but the demographic will be a lot different in the 2030s compared with 2016, so I can see it happening.

[youreavinalaff]

7 minutes ago, RayC said:

Currently no but the demographic will be a lot different in the 2030s compared with 2016, so I can see it happening.

On both sides. 

 

Those wishing to rejoin are assuming the EU will still be flourishing in the future.

[candide]

Gag!

 Trump golf resorts at Turnberry and Balmedie lost £4.4m in 2021

 

"Brexit has impacted our business as supply chains have been impacted by availability of drivers and staff, reducing deliveries and the availability of certain product lines," he wrote.

Eric Trump also said staff availability had been a "challenge" due to wage inflation caused by "increased business levels" in the retail and logistics sectors, adding the "staffing pool" had been indirectly affected by Brexit "with lack of access to European staff for businesses in general resulting in greater demand for the individuals previously available at the resort".

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-64497946

[placeholder]

10 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Exactly right. The EU is a pedestal for EU politicians. It's there to help them feel important 

 

All the more reason not to be part of it.

So the EU is all about feelings, is it? Nothing of any economic significance there?

[RayC]

15 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

On both sides. 

 

Those wishing to rejoin are assuming the EU will still be flourishing in the future.

Assumptions work both ways, Brexiters assume that the "sunny uplands" will - at the very least - become visible at some point in the future.

 

Currently while there might not be an overwhelmingly majority in the UK in favour of rejoining the EU, there is a growing realisation among the electorate that it was sold a pup by the 'Vote Leave' campaign.

[youreavinalaff]

4 hours ago, RayC said:

Assumptions work both ways, Brexiters assume that the "sunny uplands" will - at the very least - become visible at some point in the future.

 

Currently while there might not be an overwhelmingly majority in the UK in favour of rejoining the EU, there is a growing realisation among the electorate that it was sold a pup by the 'Vote Leave' campaign.

Personal experiences often differ. 

 

You said "there is a growing realisation among the electorate that it was sold a pup by the 'Vote Leave' campaign."

 

Not sure where you get your ideas from but I would guess it was the result of a poll. Of course, data gained by polls can differ. This is the issue. I could run a poll amongst leave voters that I know. I believe the result would be close to 100% " No. I wasn't sold a pup".

 

This leads me to those posters who constantly refuse to accept personal experiences because they are so called "unsubstantiated".

 

Where does the so called verifiable data come from? When we see things like  "%%% of leave voters regret their decision" or "%%% of patients wait more than 5 weeks to see the Doctor" or " <>in 5 families say they regularly miss meals" ? POLLS. Simple. Polls from people's personal experiences. Usually citing average figures from asking a few thousand people. Not particularly verifiable.

 

I could walk out of my home right now to make a poll. Using the question " are you struggling financially?" I would first head West. Having walked half a mile I would start my poll. I would get a resounding "NO". Heading East for half a mile the "Yes" responses would start to creep in. As polls are usually carried out for political effect, those carrying out the polls will often use demographics that they know will give them the results they desire. Varifiable data? Not exactly. As can be seen on this forum. Posters talking about packed out supermarkets and high streets. Pubs full if prople having fun, queues of holidaymakers at airports, priority booking Beyonce tickets selling out in the first few hours (at prices that could feed a family of 4 for a week). These sort of personal experiences don't sell newspapers or get clicks on websites and, therefore, are generally not published or polled.

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[Chomper Higgot]

19 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

On both sides. 

 

Those wishing to rejoin are assuming the EU will still be flourishing in the future.

Boris Johnson seems to agree, he’s given his opinion, at the Atlantic Council, that Ukraine should join the EU.