Marriage Extension Quesion: How to use US Social Security payment sent to a Thai bank to show monthly 40K THB foreign transfers?

[connda]

The title pretty much explains it:
Marriage Extension Quesion:  How to us US Social Security payment sent to a Thai bank to show monthly 40K+ THB foreign transfers?

How do these payments show up in a Thai bank as far as "Foreign Transfers?" 
Do they show up as FTT at a bank like Kaisakorn?  (SCB shows up as a normal deposit "X1" and not a foreign transfer).
If not, then how can you use the monthly SSA payments as the financial requirement for a marriage extension? 

Edited February 15, 2023 by connda

[DrJack54]

You obtain 'credit advice ' from bank.

That shows funds came from abroad. 

[Maestro]

Not all banks use the same codes for transactions in the bank book.

 

My SCB book shows no code that specifically indicates that a deposit is based on an inward foreign remittance. Talk to your SB branch about it.

 

[connda]

I'm looking for advice from any US citizen who currently uses Social Security deposits as their financial requirement for marriage extensions.

How are you doing it?  What bank are you using.  What hoops do you jump through.

[Balance]

1 hour ago, connda said:

I'm looking for advice from any US citizen who currently uses Social Security deposits as their financial requirement for marriage extensions.

How are you doing it?  What bank are you using.  What hoops do you jump through.

I was here on a retirement visa from 2011-2016.  My wife and I got married in 2016 and then she applied for a Green Card at the Embassy.  This was granted in July 2016.  We then moved back to the states for 5 years which turned into six.  This was to satisfy the five year joint residency requiremet for my wife to be my beneficery when I die. 

 

We returned to Thailand at the end of Septemer 2022.  I came in visa exempt and they stamped a 30 day visa. I got a 30 day extention and at the same time started the process for a O based on marriage.

 

In Chiang Mai, the first thing you have to do is deposit TB 400K in a bank (mine is BKB).  There is no exception to this, save maybe if you are on an elite visa coming in.  You then get a certication letter from the bank that you have the money in a "Fixed" Account."  My current understanding that you have to leave the money in the bank for one year,  After that there is no requirement since you have proved that you get at least TB40K every month.  But it could change.

 

As you wind through the process,  make sure to bring your Thai wife with you every time you go to immigration.  If she is familiar with the process, let her do most of the talking.  They are trying to confirm that you are not in a "sham" marriage. 

 

The reason for the 5 year joint residency requirement is due to thousands of Vietnamese women paid Americans to marry them and get them to the states where they disapeared.  I really am not sure why the Thais are so concerned about this, but money is at the root.  Someone at Thai immigration told me that they would prefer if I applied for a retirement visa again (more money required in the bank). 

 

When we finally got our home vist from immigration, a lot of time was spent explaining a new rule, that I still do not understand, 

 

If you have no experience doing this, I would recommend that you have a law firm or other entitiy walk you through it and do all of the paperwork.  It will run you TB20k to 30K.  I used Siam Legal, and they got it done.

 

Good luck 

 

 

[connda]

4 minutes ago, Balance said:

I was here on a retirement visa from 2011-2016.  My wife and I got married in 2016 and then she applied for a Green Card at the Embassy.  This was granted in July 2016.  We then moved back to the states for 5 years which turned into six.  This was to satisfy the five year joint residency requiremet for my wife to be my beneficery when I die. 

 

We returned to Thailand at the end of Septemer 2022.  I came in visa exempt and they stamped a 30 day visa. I got a 30 day extention and at the same time started the process for a O based on marriage.

 

In Chiang Mai, the first thing you have to do is deposit TB 400K in a bank (mine is BKB).  There is no exception to this, save maybe if you are on an elite visa coming in.  You then get a certication letter from the bank that you have the money in a "Fixed" Account."  My current understanding that you have to leave the money in the bank for one year,  After that there is no requirement since you have proved that you get at least TB40K every month.  But it could change.

 

As you wind through the process,  make sure to bring your Thai wife with you every time you go to immigration.  If she is familiar with the process, let her do most of the talking.  They are trying to confirm that you are not in a "sham" marriage. 

 

The reason for the 5 year joint residency requirement is due to thousands of Vietnamese women paid Americans to marry them and get them to the states where they disapeared.  I really am not sure why the Thais are so concerned about this, but money is at the root.  Someone at Thai immigration told me that they would prefer if I applied for a retirement visa again (more money required in the bank). 

 

When we finally got our home vist from immigration, a lot of time was spent explaining a new rule, that I still do not understand, 

 

If you have no experience doing this, I would recommend that you have a law firm or other entitiy walk you through it and do all of the paperwork.  It will run you TB20k to 30K.  I used Siam Legal, and they got it done.

 

Good luck 

 

 

Thanks for the long description, but it didn't answer that very specific question I asked, and - it has nothing to due with acquiring a green card for my wife, so it's way off topic.  And I did not ask a question about 'How to do a marriage extension.'  I've been married for 15 years to my Thai wife and I've been doing them for years based on 400K THB in the bank

However?  1) I am interested in the 40K per month from a foreign source deposited into a Thai bank account - and in this case - I'm specifically trying to understand 2) how to do so using US Social Security payment deposited into my Thai bank account by the US Social Security Administration.
 

Quote

How to use US Social Security payment sent to a Thai bank to show monthly 40K THB foreign transfers?

My question is very specific:
"I'm looking for advice from any US citizen who currently uses Social Security deposits as their financial requirement for marriage extensions.  How are you doing it?  What bank are you using.  What hoops do you jump through."

 

@ubonjoe

I know you're from the US.  Do you have any insight on using SSA benefit payments to meet the financial requirements for a Marriage Extension.  If this has been covered before, do you have a link?  Thanks!

 

 

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, connda said:

I'm looking for advice from any US citizen who currently uses Social Security deposits as their financial requirement for marriage extensions.
How are you doing it?  What bank are you using.  What hoops do you jump through.

I am using the 40k baht income option. The advantage I have is that  have my SSA payments are direct deposited to Bangkok Bank via their NY branch and they are FTT transfers. I only need a one year bank statement to prove my income.

I also provide a copy of my annual SSA statement for proof of the source of it.

[Bill97]

I use Social Security.

They send money to my bank.

I take money from my bank and spend it as I wish.

Immigration does not care.

Just don’t use illegal aspirin.

[zzzzz]

is ur ss payments made into ur US account?
If so, sign up and use Wise,  https://wise.com/
Best way to get ur $$ into ur thai bank marked correctly and at the lowest fees.
thats how i get my $$ here

otherwise do as stated above, an have ur SS$ paid into the Bangkok bank NY branch which will transfer it to ur thai bangkok bank

Edited February 16, 2023 by zzzzz

[Balance]

1 hour ago, connda said:

Thanks for the long description, but it didn't answer that very specific question I asked, and - it has nothing to due with acquiring a green card for my wife, so it's way off topic.  And I did not ask a question about 'How to do a marriage extension.'  I've been married for 15 years to my Thai wife and I've been doing them for years based on 400K THB in the bank

However?  1) I am interested in the 40K per month from a foreign source deposited into a Thai bank account - and in this case - I'm specifically trying to understand 2) how to do so using US Social Security payment deposited into my Thai bank account by the US Social Security Administration.
 

My question is very specific:
"I'm looking for advice from any US citizen who currently uses Social Security deposits as their financial requirement for marriage extensions.  How are you doing it?  What bank are you using.  What hoops do you jump through."

 

@ubonjoe

I know you're from the US.  Do you have any insight on using SSA benefit payments to meet the financial requirements for a Marriage Extension.  If this has been covered before, do you have a link?  Thanks!

When I got back in September, I was told by immigration that since the consulate would not certify the the SS benefits letter, they would not accept the payment letter as authentic, and therefore you had to have money in the Fixed account.  Later, I was told that after one year on the marriage visa I would have proof that I get money every month and that the I did not have to have to keep money in a Fixed account.

 

But understand, these rules change weekly and they are not published anywhere.  They also vary with the immigration office you use.  I would go ask the immigration office. 

 

[DJ54]

My U.S. social security is direct deposit to BKK Thailand via their New York office. It’s easy… 

beware this method requires an account with No ATM of internet banking although you can 

check balance / deposits on BKK internet banking. 

 

Withdrawals from this account have to done at a branch. … I go in and transfer from SS account 

and move to my regular account. with ATM and internet banking once a month.

[Yumthai]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I am using the 40k baht income option.

Sorry to hijack this thread but I'm wondering: If you reside at least 180 days/year in Thailand, that income is supposed to be declared and taxed in Thailand right?

[ubonjoe]

23 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Sorry to hijack this thread but I'm wondering: If you reside at least 180 days/year in Thailand, that income is supposed to be declared and taxed in Thailand right?

No

My income is not earned in Thailand and is pension payments.

[Yumthai]

14 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

No

My income is not earned in Thailand and is pension payments.

I'm not a lawyer but from what I understand, according to Thai Law (source), foreign source pension should be liable to Personal Income Tax if remitted in Thailand the same year it has been earned/paid ...?

[Pib]

OP,

   If using the Social Security "International Direct Deposit (IDD)" payment method which uses the SWIFT system and can be paid to any Thai bank acct (no restrictions) based on current payment routing as determined by the Federal Reserve Bank/its contractor bank (the contractor bank is probably still Citibank) which makes the pension payment for the Social Security Agency the last leg of the payment goes over the Thai BAHTNET system which results in the coding appearing on the receiving Thai bank end to show as BAHTNET/local transfer.    Doesn't matter which Thai bank receives the IDD payment....even Bangkok Bank....the payment will be coded as a BAHTNET (BTN)/local transfer vs an international transfer.   

 

     Now you can request a Credit Advice which will show it was an international transfer, HOWEVER, to get that Credit Advice your receiving Thai bank might end-up referring you to the Thai bank (probably Citibank) who accomplished the last leg of the transfer which may turn out to be a PIA.    And it's always best to get the Credit Advice within 3 months of the transfer as Thai banks typically do not charge a fee for a Credit Advice unless the transfer is over 3 to 6 months old.   

 

    Yeap, IDD is a good option if you want to have you payment sent to "any" Thai bank and to a standard/unrestricted acct....even a joint acct.    However, it does have some downside like not reflecting as an international transfer on your bank acct statement/passbook and also if your monthly payment is approx $1,125 or more after all the exchange rate & transfer fee dust settles you will receive slightly less than if using the ACH transfer system which uses the Bangkok Bank NY branch ACH/ABA routing number vs using the SWIFT system.  If approx $1,125 or less you'll receive a little more using IDD in comparison to using ACH.

 

    If using the ACH there is only one Thai bank you can use....and that is Bangkok Bank and Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank with ACH receiving capability.  "And Bangkok Bank will require a special, restricted acct for these types of reoccurring govt/pension payments."   By restricted I mean it can only be in your name....no debit....no online withdrawals/outward transfers, requires you to physically visit any Bangkok Bank branch to accomplish withdrawals/outward transfers.  But although these restrictions the monthly pension payment will always be reflected as an International Transfer with the  Bangkok Bank unique coding of FTT...this will make getting a letter showing 12 months of international transfers and/or getting Credit Advices much easier.  

 

    If your servicing Immigration Office is strict and always wants "Thai bank" proof/docs the transfers were international transfers and you want the SSA to pay directly to your Thai bank (no middle man process like you relaying from another U.S. bank, Wise, etc.,) because you are using the monthly transfer method for your annual extension then using the Bangkok Bank NY "ACH" payment method is best.    

[Pib]

28 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

I'm not a lawyer but from what I understand, according to Thai Law (source), foreign source pension should be liable to Personal Income Tax if remitted in Thailand the same year it has been earned/paid ...?

The article fails to address/grosses over  Double Taxation Agreement (DTA) between Thailand and certain other countries which makes the pension only taxable in the other/sending country like a U.S. social security/similar type pensions.   The DTA doesn't mean both countries can tax a certain income stream; instead, it DTA is geared to "prevent" double taxation of certain types of income....specify which country can tax a certain type of income.

 

DTAs can be viewed at the Thailand Revenue Dept website below.  Thailand has DTA with many countries. 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/766.html

 

Below is a partial quote of the Thailand-U.S. DTA regarding taxation of Pensions/Social Security Payments which is layman's terms says it's not taxable in Thailand but taxable in the U.S.

 

[nigelforbes]

49 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

I'm not a lawyer but from what I understand, according to Thai Law (source), foreign source pension should be liable to Personal Income Tax if remitted in Thailand the same year it has been earned/paid ...?

US SSc payments are exempt from Thai tax by treaty, it doesn't matter when they are sent.

[connda]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

OP,

   If using the Social Security "International Direct Deposit (IDD)" payment method which uses the SWIFT system and can be paid to any Thai bank acct (no restrictions) based on current payment routing as determined by the Federal Reserve Bank/its contractor bank (the contractor bank is probably still Citibank) which makes the pension payment for the Social Security Agency the last leg of the payment goes over the Thai BAHTNET system which results in the coding appearing on the receiving Thai bank end to show as BAHTNET/local transfer.    Doesn't matter which Thai bank receives the IDD payment....even Bangkok Bank....the payment will be coded as a BAHTNET (BTN)/local transfer vs an international transfer.   

 

     Now you can request a Credit Advice which will show it was an international transfer, HOWEVER, to get that Credit Advice your receiving Thai bank might end-up referring you to the Thai bank (probably Citibank) who accomplished the last leg of the transfer which may turn out to be a PIA.    And it's always best to get the Credit Advice within 3 months of the transfer as Thai banks typically do not charge a fee for a Credit Advice unless the transfer is over 3 to 6 months old.   

 

    Yeap, IDD is a good option if you want to have you payment sent to "any" Thai bank and to a standard/unrestricted acct....even a joint acct.    However, it does have some downside like not reflecting as an international transfer on your bank acct statement/passbook and also if your monthly payment is approx $1,125 or more after all the exchange rate & transfer fee dust settles you will receive slightly less than if using the ACH transfer system which uses the Bangkok Bank NY branch ACH/ABA routing number vs using the SWIFT system.  If approx $1,125 or less you'll receive a little more using IDD in comparison to using ACH.

 

    If using the ACH there is only one Thai bank you can use....and that is Bangkok Bank and Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank with ACH receiving capability.  "And Bangkok Bank will require a special, restricted acct for these types of reoccurring govt/pension payments."   By restricted I mean it can only be in your name....no debit....no online withdrawals/outward transfers, requires you to physically visit any Bangkok Bank branch to accomplish withdrawals/outward transfers.  But although these restrictions the monthly pension payment will always be reflected as an International Transfer with the  Bangkok Bank unique coding of FTT...this will make getting a letter showing 12 months of international transfers and/or getting Credit Advices much easier.  

 

    If your servicing Immigration Office is strict and always wants "Thai bank" proof/docs the transfers were international transfers and you want the SSA to pay directly to your Thai bank (no middle man process like you relaying from another U.S. bank, Wise, etc.,) because you are using the monthly transfer method for your annual extension then using the Bangkok Bank NY "ACH" payment method is best.    

@Pib Thanks for the clear explanation! 

I used to have the SSA payment go to BBK Bank in Chiang Mai, but I live in Lamphun.  When SSA offered IDD payment, I closed the BKK Bank account and had SSA Manila reroute it to SCB in Lamphun via IDD.  But this gives me the information that I need if I ever choose to go the 40K/month route with immigration using the SSA payment.  In that case I'd simply need to reopen a receiving account for the SSA payment at a Bangkok Bank here in Lamphun.  At the moment it's not an issue as I just use the 400k in the bank method.  But the winds of fate are fickle and you never know what the future will bring.  I just want to keep this in my back-pocket in case I need a different option.  So I just wanted to understand what was needed.  Thanks again for taking the time to answer the question clearly and concisely.  I really do appreciate that!    

[connda]

9 hours ago, Bill97 said:

Just don’t use illegal aspirin.

There is always a joker in the AseanNow crowd.  <laughs>

[connda]

9 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I am using the 40k baht income option. The advantage I have is that  have my SSA payments are direct deposited to Bangkok Bank via their NY branch and they are FTT transfers. I only need a one year bank statement to prove my income.

I also provide a copy of my annual SSA statement for proof of the source of it.

You can close this as it's gone off-topic.  I've got the information I was looking for.  Thanks!

[ubonjoe]

Topic closed at OP's request.