Three-Month Burn Ban Put in Place to Curb Haze, Wildfire

[zzaa09]

8 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

They have different fires in Thailand, as foreigners we don't understand.

Which usually applies to most everything here. 

[kickstart]

 

10 hours ago, Captor said:

What area is that?

Lopburi, and we have 3 mills in the area, this is the second year of baling cane straw.

Also, our local plant makes enhylal alcohol from Molasses, which will go on to make gashol  fuel for all our vehicles.

 

 

[Captor]

6 minutes ago, kickstart said:

 

Lopburi, and we have 3 mills in the area, this is the second year of baling cane straw.

Also, our local plant makes enhylal alcohol from Molasses, which will go on to make gashol  fuel for all our vehicles.

 

 

Very nice, hopefully the rest of Thailand follows.

[Damrongsak]

Looking at the NASA fire map shows fewer fires in the last day or two.  Go back a week or two or three (cumulative) and it looks like everything was on fire.  Looks like a lot of the burning has already been done.

 

https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#d:24hrs;@104.3,17.1,6z

 

[Captor]

2 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

Looking at the NASA fire map shows fewer fires in the last day or two.  Go back a week or two or three (cumulative) and it looks like everything was on fire.  Looks like a lot of the burning has already been done.

 

https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#d:24hrs;@104.3,17.1,6z

 

Yes, you are right. Still a lot in Myanmar and Cambodja.

[ozimoron]

Smoke haze in Pattaya today.

 

[connda]

The locals just walk up into the mountains and set them on fire - every year.  Nobody gives a **** as everyone heads to the mountains during the rain season to collect Het Tawp and other mushrooms in the cleared underbrush. 

[rudi49jr]

55 minutes ago, connda said:

The locals just walk up into the mountains and set them on fire - every year.  Nobody gives a **** as everyone heads to the mountains during the rain season to collect Het Tawp and other mushrooms in the cleared underbrush. 

Had several neighbors in Chiang Mai who collected all the dead leaves and stuff from the garden every day and set it on fire every night, even when the smog was already thick enough to cut with a knife. You could see it all over the neighborhood. And it was always those little fires that don’t really burn, but just smolder and smoke for hours on end. I asked a few neighbors if they could stop the burning and maybe make a compost heap or something, but just got blank stares and looks that told me to mind my own business.
Also had a landlord who collected all the garbage from the tenants of the row of six houses that he owned, put it in a big barrel and burned it. Didn’t matter what it was, plastics and everything, he just burned it every day, great big black clouds of (probably toxic) smoke.

I saw many more examples of this kind of behavior, and came to the conclusion that most people up north just like to burn stuff. 

[ripstanley]

21 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

Looking at the NASA fire map shows fewer fires in the last day or two.  Go back a week or two or three (cumulative) and it looks like everything was on fire.  Looks like a lot of the burning has already been done.

 

https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#d:24hrs;@104.3,17.1,6z

 

There were a couple of good  storms on Wednesday evening and night. I live near Phayao and it rained all night. Sometimes heavy. I have heard the most of the north had good rain. This could be the reason for less fires. 

[zzaa09]

On 2/17/2023 at 6:00 AM, kickstart said:

Do what they do in my area and some others, bale it to big bales, it goes for biomass, or at our local mill gets used as fuel for boiling molasses.

No cane is burnt in our area, so it can be done

This should be standard practice as a collective. 

[NE1]

The Medical centre next door to us has just raked up all the fallen leaves and burnt the lot.

We have been having the Black snow and the haze for a couple of weeks now.

Maybe our ban starts in March/April.

[farmerjo]

8 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

This should be standard practice as a collective. 

For that to happen you would require more machinery and less labour.

 

[kickstart]

22 hours ago, Captor said:

Very nice, hopefully the rest of Thailand follows.

It already has, for some years they are various plants about Thailand making Ethanal Alcohol, from molasses.

And have you noticed how much cassava is grown now, when I first come to my area 20 odd years ago, they were no cassava grown now it is alongside corn/maize, and cane, the reason that it is fermented down in to Ethanal Alcohol, and yes, a lot is still dried and exported, China and Rotterdam are big markets. 

[billyo]

I fly back on Friday - the dense smog makes me happy to be leaving. You can't fix stupid + corruption sadly and until you do it's a given.

[kickstart]

18 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

For that to happen you would require more machinery and less labour.

 

Yes, FJ is right, I said no cane is burnt in our area, the reason is that this year 70% +?  is now cut by machine, no cane is burnt when it is cut by machine, with a machine, a second hand import costing 2 million baht, it needs big growers to that can afford to buy one, and run one, grower we know said his fuel bill to cut 120 rie of cane was 100 000 baht, he has a total of 500 rie.

Not all areas are the same as ours but given time they will be.

 

[rudi49jr]

2 hours ago, ripstanley said:

There were a couple of good  storms on Wednesday evening and night. I live near Phayao and it rained all night. Sometimes heavy. I have heard the most of the north had good rain. This could be the reason for less fires. 

Looks like people are busy lighting fires again. This map already looks much worse than yesterday’s one. And I’m sure tomorrow and the day after will be worse again.

 

[spidermike007]

Really? Prayuth is so indifferent to the problems crop burning causes, that he won't even mention it, and deliberately obfuscates by calling it wildfires. How disingenuous. But, that is just who he is. 

 

There is a very simple solution to this problem. If the authorities were interested in solutions. The burning has to stop. There are alternatives, to this 19th century technique of burning after the sugar cane harvest. Either the government starts to encourage farmers to switch to more environmentally friendly crops, or they start to penalize farmers for burning. This heinous burning, is leading to a tremendous degree of environmental degradation, and alot of lung disease. So here is what I propose-

 

1. Fine the farmers 5,000 baht for a first offense, and give them a stern warning, that burning is now prohibited, and the second fine will be very harsh.

 

2. For a second offense, fine the farmer 100,000 baht, and warn them that if the burning continues, their land will be confiscated.

 

3. On the 3rd offense, confiscate their land. Period. No questions. No legal proceeding or appeals on the part of the farmers. Allow others to come in and purchase the land at a fair price, with the caveat that sugar is prohibited as a crop to be grown on that land.
The news would travel faster than the toxic smoke, and farmers would change their ways overnight, and move into the 21st century.

 

Then they can move on to tackle the sale of diesel vehicles, and the government's enthusiastic support of such. It is inane in this day and age. Most nations are moving away from diesel for good reasons. When they are not well maintained, they foul the air, with large, nasty particles. And who properly maintains their vehicle here?

 

Lastly they can convert all of the 10 remaining diesel and coal fired power plants. Thailand has already done a very admirable job with renewable power plants. There are over 50 powered by hydro, geothermal, wind, solar and biomass. That is impressive. 

 

The government should offer incentives, for the farmers to switch crops. This is 2021. Rice and sugar worked in previous centuries. Now, they do not make any sense. Too labor intensive, too much degradation of the land, water, air, and resources. Let's get with the times. Let us move forward. 
 

[farmerjo]

12 hours ago, kickstart said:

Yes, FJ is right, I said no cane is burnt in our area, the reason is that this year 70% +?  is now cut by machine, no cane is burnt when it is cut by machine, with a machine, a second hand import costing 2 million baht, it needs big growers to that can afford to buy one, and run one, grower we know said his fuel bill to cut 120 rie of cane was 100 000 baht, he has a total of 500 rie.

Not all areas are the same as ours but given time they will be.

 

And add another 2-3 million for tractor.rake and baler.

For a Thai to invest that sort of money in a seasonal business you would want a solid plan.

It can and is being done at tip toe speed.(give it 10 years)

When that is solved we come to national parks.

There is a lot of lightning here.

Just ask Australians what happens when you don't have yearly controlled burns.

It's a trade off to protect citizens although most would debate otherwise.

 

[Gknrd]

Look at the health index for Thailand. It's a death trap.....  Got to feel sorry for anyone living there.  Thailand is a 6 month a year country.. 

[brianthainess]

Yesterday evening while watering my trees, I thought it had started snowing, then I remembered where I was, I then started coughing and had to go inside away from it. Neighbors burn everything all year long and as usual are unable to even contemplate how bad it is for those around them, Just as the driving here, Me Me Me, loud music, barking dogs. Up to me mentality. Thainess in full swing. 

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, farmerjo said:

And add another 2-3 million for tractor.rake and baler.

For a Thai to invest that sort of money in a seasonal business you would want a solid plan.

It can and is being done at tip toe speed.(give it 10 years)

When that is solved we come to national parks.

There is a lot of lightning here.

Just ask Australians what happens when you don't have yearly controlled burns.

It's a trade off to protect citizens although most would debate otherwise.

 

I would debate otherwise - this does not protect citizens - rather the opposite, given the PM numbers. These burns are not controlled but often occur simultaneously, over large areas, to reduce costs by increasing the clearing rate, while using less labor than the alternatives.

 

https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/article/tangled-problem-sugarcane-burning-thailand

 

 

[Captor]

3 hours ago, brianthainess said:

Yesterday evening while watering my trees, I thought it had started snowing, then I remembered where I was, I then started coughing and had to go inside away from it. Neighbors burn everything all year long and as usual are unable to even contemplate how bad it is for those around them, Just as the driving here, Me Me Me, loud music, barking dogs. Up to me mentality. Thainess in full swing. 

Where is this?

[Captor]

4 hours ago, farmerjo said:

And add another 2-3 million for tractor.rake and baler.

For a Thai to invest that sort of money in a seasonal business you would want a solid plan.

It can and is being done at tip toe speed.(give it 10 years)

When that is solved we come to national parks.

There is a lot of lightning here.

Just ask Australians what happens when you don't have yearly controlled burns.

It's a trade off to protect citizens although most would debate otherwise.

 

Maybe it would happen nuch quicker if tourists stop to come because of the dangerous and deadly air! That would hit the wallet and speed up the process.

[Captor]

On 2/17/2023 at 9:02 AM, rudi49jr said:

If I’m not mistaken, this no-burn rule has been in place for years, and it’s never been enforced, at least not seriously. Like it is with most rules and laws in Thailand. Authorities are useless, RTP are useless and every winter millions of people in the north breathe in that wonderful pristine air and develop respiratory diseases for the rest of their lives.

Not only in the north. Almost everywere in Thailand.

[PETERTHEEATER]

On 2/17/2023 at 3:31 AM, webfact said:

Those who violate the rule will be penalized,.......

I will believe in the Tooth Fairy before accepting that statement.

[farmerjo]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

I would debate otherwise - this does not protect citizens - rather the opposite, given the PM numbers. These burns are not controlled but often occur simultaneously, over large areas, to reduce costs by increasing the clearing rate, while using less labor than the alternatives.

 

https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/article/tangled-problem-sugarcane-burning-thailand

 

 

Good article on why it is happening in agriculture.

It looks like they are shutting a few parks as well.

https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/general/40025001

 

[Captor]

This video might be of interest:

 

[HaoleBoy]

It would be good to know how much land the large corporations "control" - CP and PTT.

There's no reason these corporations (families) can't buy the necessary equipment to harvest correctly.

 

There are also machines that take the "rice straw" and "sugarcane straw) to be used to make bio-degradable containers - used for take-away food containers, straws, coffee cups, ...  The farmers could be paid to haul the specific straw to a packaging plant and get a little bit more money.

 

There are some solutions if the Thai Gov would invest a little rather than submarines and new fighter jets.

[Captor]

 

[Pedrogaz]

Apparently no action taken. Chiang Mai is still burning. Bangkok still full of PM 2.5. 

This PM doesn't ever make anything happen. He just makes statements and then assumes that the desired action has taken place.....it rarely does, except in command and control environments like the army and other military services. This is why generals make lousy PMs.