Why Thailand has attracted more foreign tourists than Vietnam

[Lee65]

Haven't read any posts.  Nor the news article.

 

The answer to the headline is "Because most foreign tourists in Thailand are Malaysians crossing the border for a day or two."

[Mad mick]

11 hours ago, BayArea said:

according to you which you have every right to believe, but trust me, there are plenty of expats who loved VN and have made it their home. 

no did not say that its Visa monthly issue many expats have left same reason from Nha trang etc  3 monthly no issues but monthly pain in as_stay HCMC coz close to Moc Bai border Philippines stay renew inside country big bonus no red tape 3 years tourist visa renewal monthly or 2 monthly or 6 monthly +upto you simple fast no limits on pension mine being Australian well below standard American social security $1500 US as Thai require Philippines no limit or no need put money in there banks l object to 800k in Thai bank prefer my money in Australia so out of 3 countries Philippines no 1 pick Vn great except monthly visa runs Cambodia yes 3 x3 monthly but lm not fan of Cambodia,  Thailand to restrictive that's all You can do as many land visa runs you like in Vn but it's costly 2.7mil dong per month via visa company = $127 US approx Phili = $30 per month stay and renewal upto 3 years easy rent 7000+ Islands to see no shortage of beaches 2nd language English big bonus for me . I will never be able speak Vietnamese Work permit 2 years no problems Im retired married 3 years visa leave every 6 months rtn same day no big deal if married but monthly is a pain in the as_thats all Thailand 800k in Thai bank no way keep my money in Australia,  Cambodia yes 3 x3 monthly visas but Cambodia not for me so Phili is for me simple easy not based on US Social security $1500 or any Australian pension well below US Limit by Thai Gov requirements! phili wins out 

[Mad mick]

1 hour ago, Mad mick said:

l like Vietnam been many times over the decades ! it's more the monthly visa run inconvenience HCMC to Moc Bai once month really can't live anywhere else due to monthly visa l know many expats left Nha Trang same reason moved out of Vietnam " if 3 monthly no problems " Monthly Yes hassle & expensive for myself using visa run company evisa do the lot could save $20 if i lid online but one mistake and its a problem go byvisa run company approx cost = $127US Per month. Philippines = $30 per month renewal inside Philippines immigration so damn easy 1 Reason. No 2 reason  English 2nd language ! I wont ever be able to speak Vietnamese / l know bit of Thai still enough  get by coz married Thai 19years in the early 90s Rip .. would pick up again if in Thailand ! But it's there visa issue I don't like all red tape let alone putting up 800k baht in my tha bank prefer my money in Australia when i want transfer to myself in Philippines have tourist id card. ln Vietnam family member expat works here so transfers to im he give me dong back Vn has no red tape on visa entries nor does Cambodia you can get multiple 3x3 monthly visa Just Cambodia not for me. Philippines no issues at all with visa or pension rates based  Out of all 3 Countries ! l Decided rtn back Phili better for me that's all !! biggest bonus VISA'S renew up to 3 years 7000+ Islands. 

most are probably Married to Vietnamese girls 3 year visa up to 5 next still have to leave every 6 months same day rtn no big deal " if married.  Work permit 2 years then becomes your home have relative works here came to try been many times in my past so not new except Saigon full time this time !, All l'm saying its monthly visa is a pain in as_ + expensive okay if in HCMC to Moc Bai border elsewhere it's a nightmare Da nang as examples Nha Trang ++++ why lots expats have left if not married or moved to HCMC,  l'm sure more tourist would come and stay longer IF 3 monthly e-visa reintroduced at moment still looks unlikely ? So as l said Phili works better for me back LLC Mactan island My opinion Only.  based on visas English  and affordability same as Thai or Vn .. except can't beat Thai or Vietnamese foods . 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Mad mick

[TravelWhileAble]

On 2/28/2023 at 8:08 PM, BritManToo said:

IMHO Vietnam is a far better place or tourists to visit.

Nicer beaches, cleaner sea, cheaper booze, more to see.

Haven't been to Vietnam but it's good to know that this is worth-visiting.

[William C F Pierce]

On 2/28/2023 at 3:21 PM, BayArea said:

you would think Thailand would be better in the English proficiency department with its head start in tourism as another poster said, but it isn't really the case. 

That is because Thais only speak English words using Thai Grammar.

[joecoolfrog]

On 3/1/2023 at 11:40 AM, ozimoron said:

Mandarin. Most Singapore Chinese weren't Mandarin speakers originally but that's the official Chinese language.

Yes that's my point really. 

Do second and third generation chinese immigrants speak the official mother tongue , or continue with the language of their forefathers.

When I'm strolling through Chinatown is it Mandarin I'm hearing or a regional dialect ?

 

 

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said:

Yes that's my point really. 

Do second and third generation chinese immigrants speak the official mother tongue , or continue with the language of their forefathers.

When I'm strolling through Chinatown is it Mandarin I'm hearing or a regional dialect ?

Their mother language is Thai of course but I believe they also speak their ancestral dialect if their parents still speak it. Not many would hail from Mandarin speaking areas of China, most  tend to be Hokkien or Cantonese, as they are in Malaysia and Singapore. It's only different in Singapore because they made it there official language but they do learn their ancestral language there in school as well under an optional program. No such thing exists in Thailand afaik.

[hotchilli]

On 2/28/2023 at 6:48 PM, snoop1130 said:

A friendly visa policy and diverse entertainment services have made Thailand more attractive than Vietnam in the eyes of foreign tourists.

That's one way of dressing it up..

[pedro01]

On 2/28/2023 at 7:00 PM, ukrules said:

I suspect it's going to come down to one thing only, the number of flights operating in and out of the airports.

 

That's what determines the number of arrivals.

demand determines the number of flights.

[BigStar]

7 hours ago, hotchilli said:

That's one way of dressing it up..

Fact.

[scorecard]

On 3/1/2023 at 6:44 AM, fdimike said:

Granted traffic in both Hanoi & Ho Chi Minh City is quite hectic.  However, I cycled (bicycle) to both and found them quite easy to get around.  Taxis are readily available and ALL use a meter.  Certainly what has slowed Vietnam down somewhat is their long history of war with foreign occupiers (WWII Japan, French Occupation & American War).  I've cycled by bicycle to Vietnam from my home in Udon Thani many times and have never regretted the time spent there.  The one area that Thailand has in it's favor is the visa on arrival program for tourists entering the country.  Vietnam is more bureaucratic in this regard.  It's easy to obtain a 30, 45, 60 day visa for Vietnam by visiting one of their many consulates in Thailand and the surrounding countries.  I usually obtain mine from their consulate in Khon Kaen or after crossing into Laos at Savannakhet. 

Nice points. Re visa for VN, easy, quickly availabe on line, done that many time to enter to lecture at unis in Hanoi and HCMC. No need for work permit. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by scorecard

[JimmyJ]

On 3/1/2023 at 6:44 AM, fdimike said:

 Vietnam is more bureaucratic in this regard.  It's easy to obtain a 30, 45, 60 day visa for Vietnam by visiting one of their many consulates in Thailand and the surrounding countries.  I usually obtain mine from their consulate in Khon Kaen or after crossing into Laos at Savannakhet. 

False.

 

There is only a 30 day non-renewable Tourist Visa offered by Vietnam.

 

No 45 nor 60 day Visas exist.

[rabang]

On 3/2/2023 at 2:36 PM, TravelWhileAble said:

Haven't been to Vietnam but it's good to know that this is worth-visiting.

You should. Only then you know if it is your cup of tea. Or rather cup of coffee in this case.

[Lorry]

The bombing of Vietnam created the base of Thai tourism.

R&R in Pattaya, bombers starting from Udon, hiways 2 and 24 (without which there would be no Isan girls for the tourists) built by the US  and so on....

People really forget?

Edited March 4, 2023 by Lorry

[Mac Mickmanus]

27 minutes ago, Lorry said:

The bombing of Vietnam created the base of Thai tourism.

R&R in Pattaya, bombers starting from Udon, hiways 2 and 24 (without which there would be no Isan girls for the tourists) built by the US  and so on....

People really forget?

No, there was a big gap between the Vietnam war and tourism m in Thailand .

   Tourism wasn't popular in Thailand at the end of the Vietnam war , then it was the backpackers who "discovered" Thailand in the 1980s and that led to mass tourism .

   The prostitutes in Pattaya which the USA soldiers frequented were not popular with either the back packers or the tourists , although there has always been a steady flow of sex tourists 

[Lorry]

8 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

there has always been a steady flow of sex tourists 

Don't you contradict what you said before?

(Former) backpackers like to believe that they  were the spearhead of mass tourism. That is not the case,.

The tourism industry is an industry. A nice 45-storey beach resort, as known from Hainan and now all over Asia. A nonstop 747 from Europe, not a 3-stop cheapy with Royal Brunei, the backpackers' choice. Mass tourism needs mass investment, like the Americans did during the war. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Don't you contradict what you said before?

(Former) backpackers like to believe that they  were the spearhead of mass tourism. That is not the case,.

The tourism industry is an industry. A nice 45-storey beach resort, as known from Hainan and now all over Asia. A nonstop 747 from Europe, not a 3-stop cheapy with Royal Brunei, the backpackers' choice. Mass tourism needs mass investment, like the Americans did during the war. 

It was back packers who first "discovered" Ko Samui and Thailand and they went back home and told everyone else about it , they then began building the infrastructure for holiday makers .

   Thai tourism has little to do with a a platoon of American soldiers all banging a few prostitutes in Pattaya in the 1970's

[ArnieP]

On 3/5/2023 at 12:34 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

It was back packers who first "discovered" Ko Samui and Thailand and they went back home and told everyone else about it , they then began building the infrastructure for holiday makers .

   Thai tourism has little to do with a a platoon of American soldiers all banging a few prostitutes in Pattaya in the 1970's

That is completely wrong.

 

Koh Samui until the 1990s was an elite destination, unaffordable for most let alone backpackers. To get from BKK to Sami was a costly and lengthy trek. First there was a flight on a minor airline from Bangkok to Surat Thani, then an almost two-hour MPV ride to the ferry (on which there were bandits in those days) and the boat trip to Koh Samui. There were only 2 high end hotels for visitors on the island which was sparsely populated - a truly a tropical idyll. Totally unlike today.

 

Backpacking started in big numbers in the 1960s with overland trips by microbus from Europe to Asia via Afghanistan (only £35 from the UK as I recall at one time). Plus there were Aussies who came to LoS via Bali.

 

Lorry in his earlier post is correct that Thai tourism commenced in the aftermath of the Vietnam war. Troops came here for R’n’R. In fact the long gone Pennsylvania Hotel in Bangkok was built in 1972 to accommodate the military.

 

They were seduced by the look of Thai girls and were keen to try massage among other activities with them. However, they were less than enthralled when experiencing what a Thai massage was. They were used to oil massage back home so the Thais introduced oil massage as an alternative to offering (what became) Thai traditional massage.

 

Pattaya was a fishing village in 1972 but progressively cottoned on to catering for U.S. navy ships arriving  for Rest and Recuperation. Even in the 80s Pattaya was a spartan place outside of the center.

[BigStar]

14 minutes ago, ArnieP said:

Pattaya was a fishing village in 1972 but progressively cottoned on to catering for U.S. navy ships arriving  for Rest and Recuperation

Nonsense, except for the fishing village. R&R was in Bangkok.

 

Widespread myth been discussed here many times. It persists throughout the 'net and will never die.

[bkk6060]

Thailand is so much better especially for infrastructure and wider range of diversified geography.

[Mac Mickmanus]

On 3/5/2023 at 12:16 PM, ArnieP said:

That is completely wrong.

 

Koh Samui until the 1990s was an elite destination, unaffordable for most let alone backpackers. To get from BKK to Sami was a costly and lengthy trek. First there was a flight on a minor airline from Bangkok to Surat Thani, then an almost two-hour MPV ride to the ferry (on which there were bandits in those days) and the boat trip to Koh Samui. There were only 2 high end hotels for visitors on the island which was sparsely populated - a truly a tropical idyll. Totally unlike today.

 

Backpacking started in big numbers in the 1960s with overland trips by microbus from Europe to Asia via Afghanistan (only £35 from the UK as I recall at one time). Plus there were Aussies who came to LoS via Bali.

 

Lorry in his earlier post is correct that Thai tourism commenced in the aftermath of the Vietnam war. Troops came here for R’n’R. In fact the long gone Pennsylvania Hotel in Bangkok was built in 1972 to accommodate the military.

 

They were seduced by the look of Thai girls and were keen to try massage among other activities with them. However, they were less than enthralled when experiencing what a Thai massage was. They were used to oil massage back home so the Thais introduced oil massage as an alternative to offering (what became) Thai traditional massage.

 

Pattaya was a fishing village in 1972 but progressively cottoned on to catering for U.S. navy ships arriving  for Rest and Recuperation. Even in the 80s Pattaya was a spartan place outside of the center.

Nope , in the 1980's you could get huts on the beach's of Koh Samui for 30 Baht a night , beach huts for 30 Baht per night and that was when a large Chang cost more than that and backpackers used to get the bus from BKK as there was no flights to Koh Samui in the 1980's

   There may have been few high priced hotels on Ko Samui for tourists , but there were more more beach huts available  for 30 Baht per night all around the island .

   There was always a market for sex tourists who enjoyed cheap prostitution , but back packers and tourists generally avoided that side to Thailand .

  Actually, Thailand being a sex tourist in the 1980s destination hindered Thailand's growth as tourists didn't want to go to a sex tourist destination holiday .

  Even this day, there still lives the stigma that people only go to Thailand  for cheap sex 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

19 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Nope , in the 1980's you could get huts on the beach's of Koh Samui for 30 Baht a night , beach huts for 30 Baht per night and that was when a large Chang cost more than that and backpackers used to get the bus from BKK as there was no flights to Koh Samui in the 1980's

   There may have been few high priced hotels on Ko Samui for tourists , but there were more more beach huts available  for 30 Baht per night all around the island .

   There was always a market for sex tourists who enjoyed cheap prostitution , but back packers and tourists generally avoided that side to Thailand .

  Actually, Thailand being a sex tourist in the 1980s destination hindered Thailand's growth as tourists didn't want to go to a sex tourist destination holiday .

  Even this day, there still lives the stigma that people only go to Thailand  for cheap sex 

I was one of em. 1985. People didn't talk much about Thailand back then. Phuket a bit. Seemed exotic. Did the hill tribe thing and golden triangle. Flew to Bangkok then Surat Thani and then a boat and cheap huts. Nothing too expensive. Lots of backpackers. Rode bikes around Koh Samui. So I am still a bit sympathetic to those who fall foul of insurance dramas but this generation is or should be a bit better informed. Burma too. Went home and said they are actually fun. Better in some ways to Bali where most Aussies went. 

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by Fat is a type of crazy

[ozimoron]

On 3/5/2023 at 12:16 PM, ArnieP said:

That is completely wrong.

 

Koh Samui until the 1990s was an elite destination, unaffordable for most let alone backpackers. To get from BKK to Sami was a costly and lengthy trek. First there was a flight on a minor airline from Bangkok to Surat Thani, then an almost two-hour MPV ride to the ferry (on which there were bandits in those days) and the boat trip to Koh Samui. There were only 2 high end hotels for visitors on the island which was sparsely populated - a truly a tropical idyll. Totally unlike today.

 

Backpacking started in big numbers in the 1960s with overland trips by microbus from Europe to Asia via Afghanistan (only £35 from the UK as I recall at one time). Plus there were Aussies who came to LoS via Bali.

 

Lorry in his earlier post is correct that Thai tourism commenced in the aftermath of the Vietnam war. Troops came here for R’n’R. In fact the long gone Pennsylvania Hotel in Bangkok was built in 1972 to accommodate the military.

 

They were seduced by the look of Thai girls and were keen to try massage among other activities with them. However, they were less than enthralled when experiencing what a Thai massage was. They were used to oil massage back home so the Thais introduced oil massage as an alternative to offering (what became) Thai traditional massage.

 

Pattaya was a fishing village in 1972 but progressively cottoned on to catering for U.S. navy ships arriving  for Rest and Recuperation. Even in the 80s Pattaya was a spartan place outside of the center.

Samui was indeed "discovered" by back packers. I first went there in 1979 after learning about it from hippy backpackers from Europe on the London to Sydney overland route. At that time, there were no hotels on Chaweng beach and no airport. There were only bungalows.

 

I went there by bus to Surat Thani from Hat Yai and then ferry to the port town and song taew to Chaweng. It was hardly expensive. Dirt cheap in fact. The only accommodation was bungalows at 30 baht an night. The only food was an open restaurant associated with the two bungalow villages at either end of the beach. Only food and candles were available from the restaurant. No shops, no bars and the generator was turned off at 8pm. Hardly elite.

 

 

[sscc]

Thailand tourism commenced in early-mid 1970's and had been well known in Asia by early 1980's. Timeline of various then new-built 4 star hotels in Bangkok is good reference.   Philippines did same a bit earlier.     Indonesia Bali started way earlier too and had been well known in late 1960's.  

 

Phuket was built up and promoted in 1980's,  way ahead of Samui.  

 

The title of this thread comparing Thailand and Vietnam is totally Novice . 

Thailand Vs Philippines tourism  or Thailand Vs Indonesia tourism make far better sense.  

 

 

[JimTripper]

The immigration guy at Hanoi Airport raped me with his nightstick.

[whereyougo]

16 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

The immigration guy at Hanoi Airport raped me with his nightstick.

Were you backing up? 

[zzaa09]

On 3/2/2023 at 7:29 AM, joecoolfrog said:

Yes that's my point really. 

Do second and third generation chinese immigrants speak the official mother tongue , or continue with the language of their forefathers.

When I'm strolling through Chinatown is it Mandarin I'm hearing or a regional dialect ?

 

 

Interesting to note regarding very early [original?] Chinese immigrants of locales such as Sukhothai, Chiang Mai, Ayutthaya, etc were not Mandarin or Cantonese speakers - but local languages/dialects from the southern provinces. Long before the "newish" wave of predominately Mandarin speaking Chinese of late 19th century BKK. 

 

The early upcountry Chinese folk were the movers and shakers of commerce and trade. 

[jacko45k]

19 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Nope , in the 1980's you could get huts on the beach's of Koh Samui for 30 Baht a night , beach huts for 30 Baht per night and that was when a large Chang cost more than that and backpackers used to get the bus from BKK as there was no flights to Koh Samui in the 1980's

Yes, that is my recollection.... I got a beach bungalow for a while there and it was a cheap enough venue (just the over priced sontaews and taxis compared to Pattaya). Okay it was not a 30 baht place, 200 I think, with an AC and water and electric. Long bus trip from Bangkok IIRC. I was never a backpacker but pretty cheap!

[Lorry]

On 3/5/2023 at 12:34 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

It was back packers who first "discovered" Ko Samui and Thailand and they went back home and told everyone else about it , they then began building the infrastructure for holiday makers .

The idea that back packers discovered anything and the masses followed is quite hilarious.  I admit former backpackers like this myth.

 

As I said, tourism is an industry.  It needs investments, same as when you build a factory:

- real hotels. Marriott is not an upgraded bamboo hut, it's something different from a bamboo hut.

- flights: Emirates is not just a bit bigger than Royal Brunei. And how come Bangkok can easily be reached from any European city, often non-stop, whereas traveling to Karachi or Manila is more difficult than it was 30 years ago? These are political decisions,  not made by backpackers. 

- promotion in the source countries: Europeans didn't learn about Thailand by word of mouth,  they studied the TUI and Thomas Cook brochures. Right now, these brochures promote almost nothing but Thailand.  So people come to Thailand. 

The Russians,  Chinese and Indians,  the biggest groups of tourists,  don't even know what a backpacker is (I exaggerate).

[SirHonkersTheFirst]

On 3/1/2023 at 4:44 PM, joecoolfrog said:

If I hated some place that badly , I would have left already.

Leaving next month, tidying up some odds and ends.