Thais Fuming Over British Ambassador To Cambodia’s ‘Khmer Dessert’ Photo

[ignore it]

Edited March 2, 2023 by ignore it
Cookies are permitted I guess.

[JCauto]

Pretty much any dish in Thai cuisine has a corresponding version in Khmer cuisine. They developed in parallel, probably with a lot more influence on the Khmer side during the earlier historical periods when they were predominant. But having lived for long periods in both countries, and having hosted numerous Thai friends' wives at our house for Khmer cuisine, I feel that the closeness of the two cuisines is the single largest indicator that the Thai and Khmer cultures are the closest in the region, as opposed to the Thai and the Lao. Lao food is very different to Thai and Khmer food, they just have similar languages.

[Deserted]

It's not as bad as arguments over who Angkor waht really belongs too, and the thai embassy in Phnom Penh being burned down along with it. 

[Bluespunk]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

THAI netizens got annoyed

again.

[bangon04]

5 hours ago, 2baht said:

Some of it they made up themselves! 

The "nation" of "Thailand" is a good example

[2baht]

4 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

I also suspect that these netizen types are not numerous or influential. Kind of a made up term.

Great percentage of everyday folks don't consider such things.

 

Oh but the Ministry of Culture does!

[Foghorn]

Not worry thais are still number 1 for road deaths

[KhunLA]

Oh ye of little faith ... Thailand may be the center of the universe.

 

More advanced than any other ... at one time .... though as stated, not exactly evolving as others.

https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/575/

 

Full Disclosure ... it was probably Khmer before annexed by Thailand ... ????

Edited March 2, 2023 by KhunLA

[Sydebolle]

OK, and once the whining is over, let the Swiss go over the moon on chocolate, the Babylonians over beer and the Tamils over Kari (Curry). What a hopeless kindergarten; the Thais have been faking and cheating for decades on literally anything from garments, watches or entertainment (CDs) etc. and now they go apes"*ç%t over desserts? 
Most non-Southeast Asians will not touch the stuff anyhow for being too sweet and "interesting" taste. 

Or, possibly, it is a slow day at the news desk and the journalists just had to pull out a (boring) story! 

[khunpeer]

dzjeeeeezusss, get a life, go read a book! do something constructive with yr life...

[Dukeleto]

It’s simply a Thai dessert that identifies as a Khmer dessert.

[Scott Tracy]

Khmer. That's the word that's contentious. Cambodia, Thailand are both countries. Khmer is an ethnic group. Several people who I know are Thai nationals with Khmer roots. To be a Khmer dessert, would it not mean it was created by Khmer people, irrespective of where they were, or is a dessert identified by the country in which it was created? 

 

Either way, there are far more important things to worry about than desserts and boxing.

[mikebike]

7 hours ago, stoner said:

difference being most cultures would be proud to admit it.

Like *ucker claiming Tacos are 'muricun? 

[mikebike]

6 hours ago, mikebell said:

Masaman from Malaysia.

It's from Persia. 

[stoner]

3 minutes ago, mikebike said:

It's from Persia. 

The name massaman is a corruption of the term mosalman, an archaic word derived from Persian, meaning "Muslim". Hence, many earlier writers from the mid-19th century called the dish "Mussulman curry".^{[13] [14][15]}

According to Thai journalist and scholar Santi Sawetwimon, as well as Thai food expert David Thompson, the dish originated in 17th century central Thailand at the cosmopolitan court of Ayutthaya, through the Persian merchant Sheik Ahmad Qomi, from whom the noble Thai Bunnag family descends.^[16] Most theories contend that massaman is a southern Thai dish influenced by Malay and Indian cuisine.^[17]

[Burma Bill]

11 hours ago, webfact said:

THAI netizens got annoyed ..................................... posted a photo on his Facebook page with the caption saying “Khmer dessert”

Tit for tat???? Get stuffed Thailand!!

 

Photos of construction in Thailand of what is perceived to be a copy of Angkor Wat have caused outrage among Cambodian Facebook users...........................................from a post originating in Thailand........................located in Thailand’s Buri Ram province.

 

 

https://www.khmertimeskh.com/50888776/thais-build-meditation-centre-modelled-after-angkor-wat/

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Burma Bill
additional information

[zzaa09]

7 hours ago, bangon04 said:

The "nation" of "Thailand" is a good example

...and has been scholarly debated about forever. 

[macleans]

14 hours ago, stoner said:

is most thai culture not *borrowed* anyways.

Most south east Asian culture is. Not just Thai. SE culture is influenced heavily by indian, Persian, and Arab, except to the vietnamese.

[macleans]

12 hours ago, stoner said:

take the muay thai for example. kinda not thai at all. 

Then what it is? Do you practice any form of martial arts at all?

 

Most SE Asian martial arts including lethwei, Muay Thai, and Muay Lao are similar in their looks, yet they are unique in terms of techniques used to apply moves. Of course, the origin is unclear since there were no borders or countries back in those days. Bokator, on the other hand, has its root in south indian martial arts, since the ancient khmer's culture is Tamil based.

[zzaa09]

24 minutes ago, macleans said:

Most south east Asian culture is. Not just Thai. SE culture is influenced heavily by indian, Persian, and Arab, except to the vietnamese.

And the most influential - Chinese.

[cardinalblue]

Please no more fumes…the air is bad enough

[stoner]

46 minutes ago, macleans said:

Of course, the origin is unclear since there were no borders or countries back in those days.

you might not be right about that. a few weeks ago a poster posted a number of links speaking of these very things. it was made pretty clear where it originated. 

[macleans]

11 hours ago, Artisi said:

"made up" being the key - ie stolen from others and re-branded as Thai, nearly everything "Thai" has come from Khmer, India, China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Burma etc. 

What is a Thai according to you? 

 

Thai is a nationality, not a race. Thailand is a multi racial country comprising various ethnic groups. The Tai-kadai live in the north and North and central Isan. I'm sure you are all familiar with them and their appearances. Three southern provinces of Isan i.e., buriram, srisaket, and surin are where the ethnic khmer live. 

 

Central and west Thailand is occupied by the Mon-khmer group, known as Siamese. This is the original Siamese of Thailand. They founded Ayutthaya. Why are they of the Mon-khmer origin? if you look at the map of ancient south east asia you'll see that central thailand was a big part of the Mon empire, but later became a west side of the Ankorian Empire. These people are Thais with a darker skin tone. 

 

The south was also home to the mon-indian and malay groups. Surat thani was a some point a mainland center of Sirvijaya empire (capital city on the Java island, indonesia). A recent DNA based study also confirm the history. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-018-0113-7.

 

So, no culture has been stolen. The contemporary Thai culture has been developed through cultural exchanges between ethnic groups who have lived in this land since forever.

Edited March 2, 2023 by macleans
typo

[macleans]

13 minutes ago, stoner said:

you might not be right about that. a few weeks ago a poster posted a number of links speaking of these very things. it was made pretty clear where it originated. 

Can you please point out the link to that thread?

[BangkokReady]

9 minutes ago, macleans said:

So, no culture has been stolen. The contemporary Thai culture has been developed through cultural exchanges between ethnic groups who have lived in this land since forever.

But when they try to make out that Thailand is a geographical location, a nationality and pretty much a race, then say that X item is "Thai" and any links to any other place or people is false, they are kind of misappropriating that cultural/traditional practice/object.

 

Thailand might be a melting pot of the surrounding ethnicities and cultures who passed through, settled or influenced the people that would eventually call Thailand their natural home, but that isn't how they like to present their history and culture.

[macleans]

10 hours ago, JCauto said:

Pretty much any dish in Thai cuisine has a corresponding version in Khmer cuisine. They developed in parallel, probably with a lot more influence on the Khmer side during the earlier historical periods when they were predominant. But having lived for long periods in both countries, and having hosted numerous Thai friends' wives at our house for Khmer cuisine, I feel that the closeness of the two cuisines is the single largest indicator that the Thai and Khmer cultures are the closest in the region, as opposed to the Thai and the Lao. Lao food is very different to Thai and Khmer food, they just have similar languages.

They did not develop in parallel. The modern Thai cuisine is heavily influenced by Chinese, Isan/lao, and indian/persian cuisine e.g., pad Thai, pad See-iew, and all other pads. The spicy salads like somtum, and various yum dishes are from Isan. A lot of curry dishes were inspired by indian/ persian curry.

 

During King Rama 1-4 of Bangkok, there was a tradition that Cambodian prince and prices had to come and live in the royal Thai court for a lengthy period to learn the Thai language and customs. This tradition was implemented to ensure that future Kings of cambodia would be pro Thai (Vietnam was trying to exert influence on Cambodia during those years). When those prince and princes went home, they already had a palate for Thai food. The rest is history.

[macleans]

6 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

Tit for tat???? Get stuffed Thailand!!

 

Photos of construction in Thailand of what is perceived to be a copy of Angkor Wat have caused outrage among Cambodian Facebook users...........................................from a post originating in Thailand........................located in Thailand’s Buri Ram province.

Buriram is where ethnic khmer Thais live. Unless you insist that only the Khmers who live in Cambodia have the right to practice khmer culture then ....   

[Dan O]

Only ones "fuming" are the writers of articles like this trying to direct viewer sentiment by sensationalizing headlines and expand importance of any topic to drive readership.

 

I asked several Thai friends here in NST about this article just to gauge their view and they laughed at me and asked why was a farang (me) so worried about desert and who made it. They all said the same thing, eat it if you like eat and dont eat it if not liked. 

 

[macleans]

32 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

But when they try to make out that Thailand is a geographical location, a nationality and pretty much a race, then say that X item is "Thai" and any links to any other place or people is false, they are kind of misappropriating that cultural/traditional practice/object.

Who are they? Thai government or Thai people?

 

The "Thainification policy" has done some damage to some people's knowledge about the "actual Thai history", which is taught at a university level, free from the influence of the government rubbish version taught at school.  

 

Trust me, social media and this feud with the cambodians over history has led many young Thais to question the history taught at school and done their own research on the Thai history (written by academics, not by government) and discussed it on various social media platforms. The outlook on this will be different in the future.

 

As with cultural appropriation, i personally think that it really depends on the extent to which the said culture, practice, object, etc. depart from its original form. When the extent is very significant, it means the said X has gone through alot of development and idea generation, I don't think it's wrong to say that such object is Thai. For example, a burmese invented a pair of shoes and they look a certain way, if a Thai came up with a pair of shoes which look totally different from the shoes made by the burmese, i don't think it is wrong to claim it's a Thai style pair of shoes. And the burmese should not call it a pair of burmese shoes. Of course, we need to acknowledge that the burmese is the one that invented the first pair of shoes.

[zzaa09]

56 minutes ago, macleans said:

Buriram is where ethnic khmer Thais live. Unless you insist that only the Khmers who live in Cambodia have the right to practice khmer culture then ....   

There's more ethnic Kmer/Thais that saturate Surin than of Buriram. 

One could even make a case that Sisaket has more of an Khmer ethnic feel than of Buriram. 

Edited March 2, 2023 by zzaa09