Sugguestions - electric small city 4 door car.

[Andrew Dwyer]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Good info, thanks.

 

In our case, my Thai son and his wife have decided to seriously look at all

their costs and aim for some level of quality but lower price to buy and operate.

 

One important factor - reduce costs but ensure their 3 kids have good education. 

 

(They'r also looking at food costs; can they buy somewhere cheaper than Makro, quality but lower their costs?)

 

Why the focus on car? Currently costing around 4,500Baht a month for gasoline plus maint. cost etc., a for mid size Honda 5 door car, 2 trips to 3  different schools every day, also transport kids to sports activities every week-end/some evenings. Three kids, 16, 11, 7. Plus shopping, son's transport to his teaching/coachin locations 3-4 km there and same back 5/6 days a week.

 

So they're trying to get a lot of info re small electric vehicles.

 

Interested in quality but not interested in prestige brand names etc. (Son not interested at all re brand names etc.,  son's Thai wife the same. But her older sister and brother (who have no assets whatever) are manic about brand / prestige etc. Continuously come to the house with brochures about deals on Benz, BMW, Lexus etc., which son/son's wife refuse to look at. They've even asked my son to promise when I die my son will spend at least 500,000Baht on a lavish funeral, chinese banquet etc., to make the family look important/wealthy. Every time this discussion comes up son walks out of the room and drives away.  

 

Thanks to all for the info shares, much appreciated. More details/suggestion/brenad etc., very welcome. 

Okay, well an EV should cut the cost of fuel down from 2.50 baht per km to 0.75 baht ( rough figures from reporting in Facebook groups ) using the cheapest method of charging ( a TOU meter and off peak charging ).

( not counting solar ).

EV’s are most cost effective in the city as battery power is regenerated via braking and less cost effective on highway runs, the exact opposite to combustion engines so in your son’s case makes a lot of sense.

 

I would still suggest you look at Neta V as the cheapest EV , 549k with a reputable name or the MG4, 869/969k, with a more expansive dealership and reputable name.

The MG EP is an estate/station wagon which might be useful transporting children and possible sports equipment or bikes around. The previous version was a price beating 771k but I’m not sure of the price of the new version due anytime soon.

 

I would add that while there are cheaper Chinese EV’s available, as mentioned above, some level of safety should be considered especially as the primary objective is to ferry children around, so personally I wouldn’t consider anything less than the Neta V.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Andrew Dwyer

[scorecard]

27 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Okay, well an EV should cut the cost of fuel down from 2.50 baht per km to 0.75 baht ( rough figures from reporting in Facebook groups ) using the cheapest method of charging ( a TOU meter and off peak charging ).

( not counting solar ).

EV’s are most cost effective in the city as battery power is regenerated via braking and less cost effective on highway runs, the exact opposite to combustion engines so in your son’s case makes a lot of sense.

 

I would still suggest you look at Neta V as the cheapest EV , 549k with a reputable name or the MG4, 869/969k, with a more expansive dealership and reputable name.

The MG EP is an estate/station wagon which might be useful transporting children and possible sports equipment or bikes around. The previous version was a price beating 771k but I’m not sure of the price of the new version due anytime soon.

 

I would add that while there are cheaper Chinese EV’s available, as mentioned above, some level of safety should be considered especially as the primary objective is to ferry children around, so personally I wouldn’t consider anything less than the Neta V.

Nice points, thanks.

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

(They'r also looking at food costs; can they buy somewhere cheaper than Makro, quality but lower their costs?)

 

Why the focus on car? Currently costing around 4,500Baht a month for gasoline plus maint. cost etc., a for mid size Honda 5 door car, 2 trips to 3  different schools every day, also transport kids to sports activities every week-end/some evenings. Three kids, 16, 11, 7. Plus shopping, son's transport to his teaching/coachin locations 3-4 km there and same back 5/6 days a week.

Makro ... that's the least expensive place I know to shop, especially since they don't sell everything in small packages.  Sell larger/bulk items.  Some fruits & veggies, you can get cheaper at local fresh markets, if convenient.   I'm just too lazy to bother.

 

Driving ... ฿4500 a month for petrol, that's a bit of driving, so yes, an EV would pay for itself fairly quick on lack of petrol and all the maintenance ICEs require.   We spent about ฿3000 a month for petrol, though the MG ZS was  petrol hog / 10 kpL.

 

Having both the ICE & EV version of MG ZS, can accurately calculate the petrol savings.

... 360 kms cost about ฿250 charging at home @ ฿5 per kWh

... 360 kms cost about ฿1260 for 36 liters @ ฿35 per L (10kpL)

 

Ever 10k kms, that's about ฿7,000 vs ฿35,000 (EV vs ICE)

If keeping the car till 8 yr / 180k kms warrant - 18X above

... ฿126k vs ฿630k ... ฿500k saved for a car/Neta V that cost 549k, just ballpark petrol savings.

 

Taking into consideration, should get about the same kms per kWh, with Neta V, MG ZS, MG4 & EP (ZS, EP & MG4 about same specs) or all close enough, I would think.   I easily get 360 kms out of the ZS per charge, and that's mixed local <60 kph & hwy kms @ 90 kph

 

MG estimates maintenance @ ฿14.4k over 8 yrs. (฿9k/5yrs), I think.

ICE ... Oil changes & tune ups, every 10k & 30k ish kms.

https://www.mgcars.com/en/mg-models/new-mg-zs-ev/charge

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by KhunLA

[scorecard]

9 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Not sure I'd buy any of the 'mini' EVs, as spec wise, they're definitely lacking.

 

There's also the Wuling & POCCO, but the specs for the price (฿400 & ฿500k) are not very good values, when the Neta V is a bit more, for a lot more vehicle (38.5 kWh).

Charging at home is pretty inexpensive operating cost, especially if solar now or in the future.

 

Not an EV, but starting price of Suzuki CelerIo is ฿338k (MT), ฿416k (AT), ICE (petrol & maintenance cost) but also a ~ 700 kms range.  Not that OP is interested in hwy driving.

https://www.suzuki.co.th/model/celerio?psafe_param=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAr4GgBhBFEiwAgwORrTDMCojnOYQwU3cZG6lmxb5hzVJphnxFUZj01TRQpMIvV6CQ9A_CqRoCabQQAvD_BwE

The VOLT website mentions "push button gear". I can't find any further detail on this point. Just wondering if there's a requirement to change gears as speed is incrased from starting. On the other hand my non-professional understanding is that all electric vehicles don't have / need a gear box, Is that correct?

[KhunLA]

18 minutes ago, scorecard said:

The VOLT website mentions "push button gear". I can't find any further detail on this point. Just wondering if there's a requirement to change gears as speed is incrased from starting. On the other hand my non-professional understanding is that all electric vehicles don't have / need a gear box, Is that correct?

Sounds like the same as my E-motorcycle.  A simple button/switch on handlebar, 1-2-3, and apparently allows more juice or whatever, to run motor faster/different power level (?).   Same as clutch/gears, as can only go so fast in any one gear.   It's literally a button with 3 positions on the my scooter (DECO SUSU model). 

I rarely get to #3, as just use for around town, and the dog is usually in the front basket, so keep it less than 50 kph, so not to dry her eyes out.   It will actually do 50 kph in #1, but lower rpm s in # 2, I think.  I don't really need #3 till getting near 70 kph.

 

The Volt, in this version, appears to be a big lever, on the center console.  As one person states, does seem like a bit of wasted space.

https://www.gm-volt.com/threads/does-anyone-else-wish-the-volt-had-push-button-gear-selection.36361/page-2

 

Does seem a bit of overkill for a simple switch.   Maybe so it's easy to find, and not accidently switched.

 

On the MGs, it's a simple round knob with 3 positions R-N-D, no gear selection.

Edited March 3, 2023 by KhunLA

[scorecard]

13 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Sounds like the same as my E-motorcycle.  A simple button/switch on handlebar, 1-2-3, and apparently allows more juice or whatever, to run motor faster/different power level (?).   Same as clutch/gears, as can only go so fast in any one gear.   It's literally a button with 3 positions on the my scooter (DECO SUSU model). 

I rarely get to #3, as just use for around town, and the dog is usually in the front basket, so keep it less than 50 kph, so not to dry her eyes out.   It will actually do 50 kph in #1, but lower rpm s in # 2, I think.  I don't really need #3 till getting near 70 kph.

 

The Volt, in this version, appears to be a big lever, on the center console.  As one person states, does seem like a bit of wasted space.

https://www.gm-volt.com/threads/does-anyone-else-wish-the-volt-had-push-button-gear-selection.36361/page-2

 

Does seem a bit of overkill for a simple switch.   Maybe so it's easy to find, and not accidently switched.

 

On the MGs, it's a simple round knob with 3 positions R-N-D, no gear selection.

Volt EV Chiang mai by Sangchai

Website

Directions

 

 

On the website showing several photos of VOLT, interior ad exerior there's a panel just left of the steering wheel with 3 buttons:

D     N     R

 

I'm guessing this means:

 

Drive     Neutral    Reverse  ??

 

 

 

 

Save

Call

Motor vehicle dealer in Fa Ham

 

 

Service options: In-store shopping

 

 

Address: Fa Ham, Mueang Chiang Mai District, Chiang Mai 50300

 

 

 

 

Hours: 

Open ⋅ Closes 5 PM

 

 

Phone: 090 656 2449

[vinny41]

37 minutes ago, scorecard said:

The VOLT website mentions "push button gear". I can't find any further detail on this point. Just wondering if there's a requirement to change gears as speed is incrased from starting. On the other hand my non-professional understanding is that all electric vehicles don't have / need a gear box, Is that correct?

That is correct most EV have approx 20 moving parts compared to 3,000 on ICE vehicles

[scorecard]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

That is correct most EV have approx 20 moving parts compared to 3,000 on ICE vehicles

Thanks.

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Thanks.

Here is some more info about the Volt

The Volt City EV was developed in collaboration with three leading Chinese companies:

DongFeng Motor (东风汽车)

Zhengzhou Nissan (郑州日产)

Beijing Hongrui Automotive Technology (北京宏瑞汽车)

https://www.headlightmag.com/2022-07-04-official-price-volt-ev/

[KhunLA]

15 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Volt EV Chiang mai by Sangchai

Website

Directions

 

 

On the website showing several photos of VOLT, interior ad exerior there's a panel just left of the steering wheel with 3 buttons:

D     N     R

 

I'm guessing this means:

 

Drive     Neutral    Reverse  ??

 

 

 

 

 

Save

Call

Motor vehicle dealer in Fa Ham

 

 

Service options: In-store shopping

 

 

Address: Fa Ham, Mueang Chiang Mai District, Chiang Mai 50300

 

 

 

 

Hours: 

Open ⋅ Closes 5 PM

 

 

Phone: 090 656 2449

Interesting read, and should have a service center (30) in the more populated provinces.

https://krungsrimarket.cjdataservice.com/article/EV PRIMUS ผู้จัดจำหน่ายรถยนต์ไฟฟ้าแบบมัลติแบรนด์กับการเปิดตัวแบรนด์ VOLT ในไทย

[vinny41]

A fully electric car has fewer moving parts, so they come with less ongoing maintenance costs. In fact, there are about 20 moving parts in an electric engine, compared to nearly 2,000 in an ICEV

https://driveelectric.org.nz/consumer/what-is-an-ev/

[vinny41]

Something the op should be aware of 

BYD ATTO 3 hits an island in the middle of the road The repair center valued over 1,000,000 baht.

https://droidsans.com/byd-atto-3-damage-cost-1-mil-baht/

BYD center has estimated the total repair cost for this car at 1,167,571 baht (including Vat 7%).

 cost of replacing the battery alone is already 896,190 baht 

The  insurance value is only 1 million baht. Causing the insurance company to request a refund of the sum insured because the repair cost is more than 80% of the car price

Edited March 3, 2023 by vinny41
add

[3NUMBAS]

they all overstate the range so do many tests afore buying

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

they all overstate the range so do many tests afore buying

Actually most brands tend to understate the range rather than overstate  and many different factors can affect the range such as  if the driver has a heavy foot or the car is loaded with 5 sumo wrestlers it never going to reach the published ranges

[BKKBike09]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Something the op should be aware of 

BYD ATTO 3 hits an island in the middle of the road The repair center valued over 1,000,000 baht.

https://droidsans.com/byd-atto-3-damage-cost-1-mil-baht/

BYD center has estimated the total repair cost for this car at 1,167,571 baht (including Vat 7%).

 cost of replacing the battery alone is already 896,190 baht 

The  insurance value is only 1 million baht. Causing the insurance company to request a refund of the sum insured because the repair cost is more than 80% of the car price

Actually, BYD has now made clear that the price of the extended range battery (60KWh) is now basically THB 700,000 inc VAT, while the standard one (50KWh) is THB 565,000.

 

 

I expect these prices will fall even further in coming years, especially once BYD start making the Atto here (slated for 2024).

[proton]

Probably go for one of these then on the price, 8 year guarantee or 150k would have to be looked at. We have only done 60k in 10 years.

 

https://cg-ev.com/passenger-segment

[vinny41]

20 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

Actually, BYD has now made clear that the price of the extended range battery (60KWh) is now basically THB 700,000 inc VAT, while the standard one (50KWh) is THB 565,000.

 

 

I expect these prices will fall even further in coming years, especially once BYD start making the Atto here (slated for 2024).

the price that the BYD centre quoted was from BYD so have they just reduced the price of the battery because of media coverage or is the price of  896,190 baht  still correct as that includes removing the old battery and installing the new one

[Andrew Dwyer]

That Neta S looks a beast !! and 1100 km range !.

 

 

Curious about the Moose Test though ?

[scorecard]

10 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Makro ... that's the least expensive place I know to shop, especially since they don't sell everything in small packages.  Sell larger/bulk items.  Some fruits & veggies, you can get cheaper at local fresh markets, if convenient.   I'm just too lazy to bother.

 

Driving ... ฿4500 a month for petrol, that's a bit of driving, so yes, an EV would pay for itself fairly quick on lack of petrol and all the maintenance ICEs require.   We spent about ฿3000 a month for petrol, though the MG ZS was  petrol hog / 10 kpL.

 

Having both the ICE & EV version of MG ZS, can accurately calculate the petrol savings.

... 360 kms cost about ฿250 charging at home @ ฿5 per kWh

... 360 kms cost about ฿1260 for 36 liters @ ฿35 per L (10kpL)

 

Ever 10k kms, that's about ฿7,000 vs ฿35,000 (EV vs ICE)

If keeping the car till 8 yr / 180k kms warrant - 18X above

... ฿126k vs ฿630k ... ฿500k saved for a car/Neta V that cost 549k, just ballpark petrol savings.

 

Taking into consideration, should get about the same kms per kWh, with Neta V, MG ZS, MG4 & EP (ZS, EP & MG4 about same specs) or all close enough, I would think.   I easily get 360 kms out of the ZS per charge, and that's mixed local <60 kph & hwy kms @ 90 kph

 

MG estimates maintenance @ ฿14.4k over 8 yrs. (฿9k/5yrs), I think.

ICE ... Oil changes & tune ups, every 10k & 30k ish kms.

https://www.mgcars.com/en/mg-models/new-mg-zs-ev/charge

 

"Some fruits & veggies, you can get cheaper at local fresh markets, if convenient. "

 

My son visits the cleaner fresh markets regularly, buys some meat (especially pieces of beef which is BBQd at home on coals after adding a sweet sauce then sliced into narrow lengths, a favorite of all the family and especially me. Also decent size chunks of good pork which we gring at home to make a pork/tomato spaghetti sauce. He buys many vegetables at the markets, often a big bag of Thai radishes (very cheap) which his wife uses to make a very nice Thai soup.

The main focus at the markets is fruit. Son has taught himself how to select better quality ready to eat, especially oranges and wtaremelon and other melons (checked always for sweetness), and he found a market with imprted dark grapes from Peru (always checked for sweetness). Always a variety of 2 or 3 fruits on the table after every meal. Fruit and carrots cut into small pieces always ready for the 3 kids. Son also buys 1 or 2 kilo mesh bags of quite small onions. Peeled and steamed and ready for the kids as a snack. Kids love them. He also buys half / full liter containers of freshly made Thai yoghurt at the markets. Kids consume that quick smart.

Market shopping (as above) certainly reduced overall food costs.

[KhunLA]

5 hours ago, scorecard said:

"Some fruits & veggies, you can get cheaper at local fresh markets, if convenient. "

 

My son visits the cleaner fresh markets regularly, buys some meat (especially pieces of beef which is BBQd at home on coals after adding a sweet sauce then sliced into narrow lengths, a favorite of all the family and especially me. Also decent size chunks of good pork which we gring at home to make a pork/tomato spaghetti sauce. He buys many vegetables at the markets, often a big bag of Thai radishes (very cheap) which his wife uses to make a very nice Thai soup.

The main focus at the markets is fruit. Son has taught himself how to select better quality ready to eat, especially oranges and wtaremelon and other melons (checked always for sweetness), and he found a market with imprted dark grapes from Peru (always checked for sweetness). Always a variety of 2 or 3 fruits on the table after every meal. Fruit and carrots cut into small pieces always ready for the 3 kids. Son also buys 1 or 2 kilo mesh bags of quite small onions. Peeled and steamed and ready for the kids as a snack. Kids love them. He also buys half / full liter containers of freshly made Thai yoghurt at the markets. Kids consume that quick smart.

Market shopping (as above) certainly reduced overall food costs.

The fresh markets in our area, don't offer a whole lot of variety.  Not the most populated Amphur.  Meats rarely look very appealing.  If offering more, consistently, we'd pop in more often.

[steve187]

looking at all the pros and con for an EV as opposed to an ICE machine, i think battery costs as highlighted in the BYD crash, are prohibitive, yes some come with a long warranty, and yes advances in the future will make them cheaper and extend the distances between charges, but that's in the future, not know, and in the future EV may be replaced by the next advancement, (look at cd's replaced bu mp3's) but at some time everyone buying an EV vehicle now to keep long term, will need a new battery sometime in their ownership, and that comes at a huge cost, also taking into account the charging of the vehicle, queues on motorways waiting for chargers etc, ICE is well tried and tested, and has been around for a 100 years,   all these points are why i choose a new ICE car over EV, i still think nearly a year later i made the right choice,

 

regardless of all i posted above, it may make sense for some owners to go EV, as in the op 's case, but  looking at the cheapest EV that is fit for purpose would be the way to go, almost a disposable vehicle after a set number of years.

[KhunLA]

34 minutes ago, steve187 said:

regardless of all i posted above, it may make sense for some owners to go EV, as in the op 's case, but  looking at the cheapest EV that is fit for purpose would be the way to go, almost a disposable vehicle after a set number of years.

Yes, fits our lifestyle perfectly, and the savings is a huge plus.  I expect the wife to get 10-15, if not longer years out of the EV, in which case, most people replace their cars anyway.   Doubt if she'd need to replace the battery, as I'm the O&A motivator.   Petrol savings alone would pay for any new car down the line.   

 

My calculations, about 500k saved on just petrol over the battery warranty period.   Should get double that, keeping for another 8 yrs, so 1 mill alone saved just on petrol, at today's prices.  Pays for any new car down the line.

 

And the EV battery will probably be able to be used at the house with the solar.  Surely the future savvy techies will have a quick adaptor for hooking up old battery banks to home solar system, or a market for used battery banks.  If between 50-80% capacity after 15 ish yrs, that's still about 25kWh or more of battery bank, and more than we have now at the house.

 

If you can't charge at home, or work on the road every day and driving some distances, then EVs probably aren't for you.  Or don't mind driving 3+ hours without a break at 100+  kph to get to where ever as fast as possible, then present EVs aren't for you.   Ranges of 600-1000 kms now available, though pricey, should solve that for most people.  Would avoid any weekend Q'ing at CS for the impatient people who don't book in advance ????

 

One issue for ICE owners in the future, not TH, but many metros will start banning ICEs in downtown areas, which has already started.

 

 

[BKKBike09]

10 hours ago, vinny41 said:

the price that the BYD centre quoted was from BYD so have they just reduced the price of the battery because of media coverage or is the price of  896,190 baht  still correct as that includes removing the old battery and installing the new one

I suspect they've reduced the battery price because of media coverage (and possibly pressure from the insurance companies they use).

 

[KhunLA]

20 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

I suspect they've reduced the battery price because of media coverage (and possibly pressure from the insurance companies they use).

Maybe just to let people know what the worst scenario would cost, IF, the whole pack needed replacing, instead of just a few cells being swapped out.

 

Or simply a marketing ploy, striding for the top spot held by CATL.

"Recent sales figures point to BYD overtaking LG Energy Solution in market share the coming months or years."

 

Anyone needing investment suggestions:

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-top-10-ev-battery-manufacturers-in-2022/#:~:text=Currently%2C Chinese companies make up,come from the Chinese company.

 

Also good info for the 2nd hand market, for those skeptical about buying.   They now know what it would cost to make the 2nd hand EV. almost like new, and expect another 10 yrs from it.

 

Next up would be a universal fit, to replace their batteries in cars that didn't originally have.  Instead of replacing your CATL bank, use the newer BYD Blade bank.

https://medium.com/predict/byds-blade-battery-has-changed-the-ev-game-ff3cf5d1d4c7#:~:text=But the Blade Battery currently costs %24136 per kWh.

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by KhunLA

[steve187]

6 hours ago, KhunLA said:

My calculations, about 500k saved on just petrol over the battery warranty period.   Should get double that, keeping for another 8 yrs, so 1 mill alone saved just on petrol, at today's prices.  Pays for any new car down the line

so your thinking that over 18years, the car will pay for it self in saved petrol. so the running costs will be wear and tear on tyres and parts, not sure about the money saved to be used buying a new car at 18 years in the future prices, but i get your point, what sort of mileage do you expect to drive in those 18 years to save the 1million? 20,000km per year

[NanLaew]

On 3/2/2023 at 5:05 PM, Crossy said:

And, of course, get those solar panels up for truly zero emissions and free motoring!

Shameless bump of your "solar panels on the car port" thread.

 

Good job sir!

[Crossy]

9 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Shameless bump of your "solar panels on the car port" thread.

 

Good job sir!

 

Nah, THIS is a shameless bump!

 

 

 

[NanLaew]

On 3/3/2023 at 8:11 AM, proton said:

How much would it cost to fully charge a car up then? I like the look of the BYD but have yet to see one on the roads here yet.

I see BYD Atto3 several times a day in and around Udon Thani and it's not the same one either. I noticed a transporter offloading a pile of them at the new dealership up here middle of last month. Saw a nice pale metallic green one yesterday.

[KhunLA]

45 minutes ago, steve187 said:

so your thinking that over 18years, the car will pay for it self in saved petrol. so the running costs will be wear and tear on tyres and parts, not sure about the money saved to be used buying a new car at 18 years in the future prices, but i get your point, what sort of mileage do you expect to drive in those 18 years to save the 1million? 20,000km per year

Yea ... something like, and very feasible

8 yr /180k kms warranty X 2 = 16 yrs

Petrol prices stay at today's rate (35, actually 36 now) and 20k kms a year, sounds about right.

 

1 mill saved, and 360k kms (225k miles) for battery & electric motors isn't much of a stretch, for EV or an ICE.  All things equal, other maintenance costs about the same, minus anything related to a petrol drivetrain.

 

Neither having much value after that, though if battery still holding 50% capacity, that's 23kWh to be added to a solar system.  Another plus.

 

If you don't rack up that many kms, that's fine also, as having transport for 16 yrs, and again, both EV & ICE won't have much market value, aside from spare car, or parts.  

 

As stated on different thread, we put on about 20k a year now, or I have since living in TH.   Wife won't after I'm gone, maybe 5-10k a year at the most.  No school or work commute, and everything is within 5 kms of the house now.

 

Would think any EV with a 50kWh battery would give about the same ROI, whether <600k or 950k (MG ZS) to buy new.  All the MGs here now, are spec'd and rated about the same.

Edited March 4, 2023 by KhunLA

[Kwasaki]

56 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

I see BYD Atto3 several times a day in and around Udon Thani and it's not the same one either. I noticed a transporter offloading a pile of them at the new dealership up here middle of last month. Saw a nice pale metallic green one yesterday.

130,000 for a different battery seems a lot.