Biden says anti-trans laws are 'close to sinful'

[James105]

10 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

You could start an OP on that considering its from the UK and a 2018 controversial report about the activities of the gender identity development. service in a clinic. Happy to hear your opinions on the post I made though.

It's directly relevant.   Bills are not made in a vacuum and lawmakers look at other countries experiences for research.   What I posted was a relevant link that shows how important it is to safeguard children, especially when it comes to making choices that permanently alter their bodies before they are mature enough to make that choice.   

 

I'll try again just for the hell of it - which right(s) do trans people specifically not have that other humans have?   It seems all these bills are attempting to safeguard kids and I don't know how anyone could say that is "sinful".   Are there any that take rights away from adults?    

[placeholder]

Just now, James105 said:

It's directly relevant.   Bills are not made in a vacuum and lawmakers look at other countries experiences for research.   What I posted was a relevant link that shows how important it is to safeguard children, especially when it comes to making choices that permanently alter their bodies before they are mature enough to make that choice.   

 

I'll try again just for the hell of it - which right(s) do trans people specifically not have that other humans have?   It seems all these bills are attempting to safeguard kids and I don't know how anyone could say that is "sinful".   Are there any that take rights away from adults?    

But the Tavistock case was not about permanent alteration of children's bodies. It was about puberty blockers, not surgery.

[bamnutsak]

8 minutes ago, James105 said:

It seems all these bills are attempting to safeguard kids

"Seems"?

 

 

Number of children killed or injured during drag show story hour: 0

Number of children killed or injured by firearms in 2022: 6,023

 

 

Please find a better rationalization for all these anti-trans bills. This isn't about safeguarding children, who've evidently been unaffected by trans folks for years Now, all of a sudden it's a major crisis? Seriously.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by bamnutsak

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

It is , a Transgender person is a person  who identifies to a different gender to what genitals they had when they were born 

Some folks with problems understanding adverbs here. Previously, someone who didn't understand the meaning of "almost". Now you misunderstand the meaning of "not only". Here once again is what you replied to:

"Transgenderism is not only about genitals. "

Edited March 15, 2023 by placeholder

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, James105 said:

It's directly relevant.   Bills are not made in a vacuum and lawmakers look at other countries experiences for research.   What I posted was a relevant link that shows how important it is to safeguard children, especially when it comes to making choices that permanently alter their bodies before they are mature enough to make that choice.   

 

I'll try again just for the hell of it - which right(s) do trans people specifically not have that other humans have?   It seems all these bills are attempting to safeguard kids and I don't know how anyone could say that is "sinful".   Are there any that take rights away from adults?    

The response and link you provided was irrelevant to the post I made, you may want to check. 

 

"Bills that would rip transgender children from their parents or attack protections for same-sex couples."

 

Here's a little further info on other rights that are being denied:

 

The struggle of trans and gender-diverse persons

https://www.ohchr.org/en/special-procedures/ie-sexual-orientation-and-gender-identity/struggle-trans-and-gender-diverse-persons

 

[KhunLA]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

No it doesn't. 

Transgenderism is not only about genitals. 

 

Actually I think it is, as that's the part that is confusing/misunderstood, do you, or don't you have one, either.  Includes me, as I haven't the slightest idea what transgender means, and yea, I get 'in transition', but that's too vague and totally unnecessary.

 

Trans is way too vague, as is non-binary.  Fine, you don't want to tell me, well that's fine also.  Call yourself, identify with whatever you please, but don't get PO'd at me, if I call you something else.  I'm not using the silly pronouns, tell me your name, or don't get offended if I screw up addressing you, 

 

As an aside to that issue, the rest room, toilet use, there should be 1, unisex toilet, not male & female, but they do need CCTV, and all stalls, or urinals with proper camera angle if people want to use, UP2U.  Don't need 2 different, and surely not a 3rd room.  You need a safe place to do your hair, adjust your bra, use the damn stall.  It's a toilet, do you business and leave, there's people waiting.

 

The only time your gender, and there is only two genders, with or without a penis/vagina, needs to be known, is if competing in sports, if the sport has a male/female competition.   

 

OK, also a description of a criminal, if PoPo is looking,   Looking for a trans, or non-binary person, wouldn't be very affective.

Edited March 15, 2023 by KhunLA

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Actually I think it is, as that's the part that is confusing/misunderstood, do you, or don't you have one, either.  Includes me, as I haven't the slightest idea what transgender means, and yea, I get 'in transition', but that's too vague and totally unnecessary.

 

Trans is way too vague, as is non-binary.  Fine, you don't want to tell me, well that's fine also.  Call yourself, identify with whatever you please, but don't get PO'd at me, if I call you something else.  I'm not using the silly pronouns, tell me you name, or don't get offended if I screw up addressing you, 

 

As an aside to that issue, the rest room, toilet use, there should be 1, unisex toilet, not male & female, but they do need CCTV, and all stalls, or urinals with proper camera angle if people want to use, UP2U.  Don't need 2 different, and surely not a 3rd room.  You need a safe place to do your hair, adjust your bra, use the damn stall.  It's a toilet, do you business and leave, there's people waiting.

 

The only time your gender, and there is only two genders, with or without a penis/vagina, needs to be known, is if competing in sports, if the sport has a male/female competition.   

 

OK, also a description of a criminal, if PoPo is looking,   Looking for a trans, or non-binary person, wouldn't be very affective.

All you need to know is Transgender people are people.

 

Human beings deserving the same rights as anyone else.

 

Start from there, you won’t go far wrong.

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[James105]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

All you need to know is Transgender people are people.

 

Human beings deserving the same rights as anyone else.

 

Start from there, you won’t go far wrong.

 

That works right up until you need to decide which prison to put the person in if they have committed a crime or that person wishes to compete in sports, or one of the many other reasons that certain spaces are separated by sex.   At that point it becomes essential to know what that persons birth sex is so that the rights of biological women are not trampled over in pursuit of "the latest thing/cause" that has been jumped on by all the usual suspects. 

[seajae]

I have no problem with an adult being trans gender, it is their right, doing so does not make them automatically male or female(which many actually state) but it does help them mentally and most do live a better life for it, I knew a few in my younger years and they were really great people, I always enjoyed their company but they didnt become trans females when they were children and did so using rational adult thinking. Young kids do not have the necessary maturity and rational thinking to have life altering medical procedures, they may feel it is right at the time but as we have seen there are those that have gone through the procedures and have regreted it a lot as they aged and matured but it has been too late for them to reverse what was done to them. There are laws for voting age, drinking age, driving age etc, the same needs to be done in this regard as it does effect the rest of their lives and not being mature enough, being able to think rationally without any peer presure or having enough life experience to make such a life altering decision is needed. Sexual orientation can be obvious at young ages and should be accepted by everyone but that does not involve life/body altering changes, this is a whole different kettle of fish and under age kids do need protection until they can make a mature decision with full knowledge of what is involved, I find it very suspect when adults are pushing for young kids with immature thinking to go through life altering procedures to change their bodies.

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by seajae

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

All you need to know is Transgender people are people.

 

Hunan beings deserving the same rights as anyone else.

 

Start from there, you won’t go far wrong.

Agree, but they also don't deserve special rights.   And their 'right's shouldn't violate other's rights to a safe place.   At present, people with penis, in the woman's toilet is wrong, as security is NOT in place.

 

At present, the system isn't set up to serve a 3rd gender, and it really shouldn't be.   Instead of catering to a 3rd gender, toilet use wise, should be unisex, and solves that issue.   Aside from that, I don't see any issue with people wanting to identify themselves as whatever they want.

 

Toilet use, at present, and sports, if separate competition are the only issues where it matters. 

 

Other issues, business catering to, against their beliefs, that should be up to the business, not mandatory.  You want to marry same sex, that's fine, but don't force someone against it to perform the ceremony.  That comes down to religious beliefs, if having.

 

Don't know why anyone would want to force or use a business that doesn't accept them, or have anything to do with bigots.   Just a headliner and a money grab, expecting special rights, that's wrong.

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, James105 said:

That works right up until you need to decide which prison to put the person in if they have committed a crime or that person wishes to compete in sports, or one of the many other reasons that certain spaces are separated by sex.   At that point it becomes essential to know what that persons birth sex is so that the rights of biological women are not trampled over in pursuit of "the latest thing/cause" that has been jumped on by all the usual suspects. 

Agree, add that to my 'short list' ... gender assigned accommodation for criminals.   If you can't deal with that, don't commit the crime, and you do the time.

[owl sees all]

I think POTUS Biden is a twerp. This is a vote loser for his party.

 

Could have misread the auto-cue. That's the only thing I can think of for this nonsense.

[placeholder]

46 minutes ago, seajae said:

I have no problem with an adult being trans gender, it is their right, doing so does not make them automatically male or female(which many actually state) but it does help them mentally and most do live a better life for it, I knew a few in my younger years and they were really great people, I always enjoyed their company but they didnt become trans females when they were children and did so using rational adult thinking. Young kids do not have the necessary maturity and rational thinking to have life altering medical procedures, they may feel it is right at the time but as we have seen there are those that have gone through the procedures and have regreted it a lot as they aged and matured but it has been too late for them to reverse what was done to them. There are laws for voting age, drinking age, driving age etc, the same needs to be done in this regard as it does effect the rest of their lives and not being mature enough, being able to think rationally without any peer presure or having enough life experience to make such a life altering decision is needed. Sexual orientation can be obvious at young ages and should be accepted by everyone but that does not involve life/body altering changes, this is a whole different kettle of fish and under age kids do need protection until they can make a mature decision with full knowledge of what is involved, I find it very suspect when adults are pushing for young kids with immature thinking to go through life altering procedures to change their bodies.

 

It's not just any adults, though, is it. It's their parents and it's professionals. And, as has been repeatedly pointed out, surgical intervention are exceedingly rate in the case of minors.

[Eric Loh]

33 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

I think POTUS Biden is a twerp. This is a vote loser for his party.

 

Could have misread the auto-cue. That's the only thing I can think of for this nonsense.

Biden is simply echoing the majority of Americans that favouring policies that protect transgender individuals from discrimination. 

[KhunLA]

17 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Biden is simply echoing the majority of Americans that favouring policies that protect transgender individuals from discrimination. 

Far from echoing the majority of voters. 

OK, now I have to read the OP ????

 

So he's generalizing 'anti trans' laws, with a mention to FL, to discredit a possible presidential opponent.   So politics as usual, and just a sound bite, and should be ignored.

 

Parents decide the fate of their children, and medical service they receive, till they are adults, not schools, not legislatures.  If that is the laws he is referring to.

 

I don't think transgenders, again, whatever they are, need special treatment about discrimination.   Think there's enough protected, discrimination laws already on the books.

 

What imaginary discrimination are they talking about now ?

Edited March 15, 2023 by KhunLA

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Far from echoing the majority of voters. 

OK, now I have to read the OP ????

 

Parents decide the fate of their children, and medical service they receive, till they are adults, not schools, not legislatures.  If that is the laws he is referring to.

It's clear that you haven't been following the issue. Many of these anti-trans bills actually denied parents the right to make these decisions.

[Eric Loh]

9 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Far from echoing the majority of voters. 

OK, now I have to read the OP ????

 

So he's generalizing 'anti trans' laws, with a mention to FL, to discredit a possible presidential opponent.   So politics as usual, and just a sound bite, and should be ignored.

 

Parents decide the fate of their children, and medical service they receive, till they are adults, not schools, not legislatures.  If that is the laws he is referring to.

 

I don't think transgenders, again, whatever they are, need special treatment about discrimination.   Think there's enough protected, discrimination laws already on the books.

 

What imaginary discrimination are they talking about now ?

 

23 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Far from echoing the majority of voters. 

OK, now I have to read the OP ????

 

So he's generalizing 'anti trans' laws, with a mention to FL, to discredit a possible presidential opponent.   So politics as usual, and just a sound bite, and should be ignored.

 

Parents decide the fate of their children, and medical service they receive, till they are adults, not schools, not legislatures.  If that is the laws he is referring to.

 

I don't think transgenders, again, whatever they are, need special treatment about discrimination.   Think there's enough protected, discrimination laws already on the books.

 

What imaginary discrimination are they talking about now ?

Wrong. The laws take away the parental decision. The Arkansas bill ban medical treatment for transgender minors. Law also prohibits doctors from providing gender confirming hormone therapy, puberty blockers etc. 

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

 

Wrong. The laws take away the parental decision. The Arkansas bill ban medical treatment for transgender minors. Law also prohibits doctors from providing gender confirming hormone therapy, puberty blockers etc. 

20 minutes ago, placeholder said:

It's clear that you haven't been following the issue. Many of these anti-trans bills actually denied parents the right to make these decisions.

If that's the case, then that's a tough one.   Not sure a minor should be making the decision to have a life altering surgery. 

 

I'm going to have to plead ignorance on the hormone therapy, but if not a permanent thing, and just postpones puberty, of whatever, then possibly should be allowed.  At most, maybe 8 yrs of meds, and if not a danger to organs, if stopped, then don't see a problem.

 

But surgery, lopping off one's little buddy ... you might want to think a little longer about that.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

If that's the case, then that's a tough one.   Not sure a minor should be making the decision to have a life altering surgery. 

 

I'm going to have to plead ignorance on the hormone therapy, but if not a permanent thing, and just postpones puberty, of whatever, then possibly should be allowed.  At most, maybe 8 yrs of meds, and if not a danger to organs, if stopped, then don't see a problem.

 

But surgery, lopping off one's little buddy ... you might want to think a little longer about that.

As the experts have pointed out, such a procedure is exceedingly rare.

Also, it should be pointed out that some states are enacting laws that actually ban hormone therapy.

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

As the experts have pointed out, such a procedure is exceedingly rare.

Also, it should be pointed out that some states are enacting laws that actually ban hormone therapy.

Guess it sucks living in USA, if your physical body doesn't match what you mentally want to be.  No answer/solution from me on that one.

 

I accept what I was born with, and get to do whatever I want with it. 

 

Sometimes thought it would be a lot better to be born a female, but that's a lot a slicing & dicing, taking & adding to accomplish, and if I changed my mind ...

... oh krap

 

I'm a handsome man, can't say I'd be a cute chickie after surgery.  I've gone drag, and I wouldn't date me ????

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Guess it sucks living in USA, if your physical body doesn't match what you mentally want to be.  No answer/solution from me on that one.

 

I accept what I was born with, and get to do whatever I want with it. 

 

Sometimes thought it would be a lot better to be born a female, but that's a lot a slicing & dicing, taking & adding to accomplish, and if I changed my mind ...

... oh krap

 

I'm a handsome man, can't say I'd be a cute chickie after surgery.  I've gone drag, and I wouldn't date me ????

Just out of curiosity and nothing more, I swear, could you send me a photo for me to see if I would date you?

[KhunLA]

22 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Just out of curiosity and nothing more, I swear, could you send me a photo for me to see if I would date you?

Just a head shot, as I'd have to dig up the original, non digital in a folder, in a box, somewhere.

 

Hair teased out, make up professionally applied, no facial hair (minus full beard) and my girlfriend didn't even recognize me, and I was talking to her.

 

1987 vs non drag (1990), and one of only times I didn't have facial hair, before coming to TH:

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by KhunLA

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Just a head shot, as I'd have to dig up the original, non digital in a folder, in a box, somewhere.

 

Hair teased out, make up professionally applied, no facial hair (minus full beard) and my girlfriend didn't even recognize me, and I was talking to her.

 

vs non drag:

 Somewhere between Hubba, Hubba! and Hubba!

[Eric Loh]

26 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

If that's the case, then that's a tough one.   Not sure a minor should be making the decision to have a life altering surgery. 

 

I'm going to have to plead ignorance on the hormone therapy, but if not a permanent thing, and just postpones puberty, of whatever, then possibly should be allowed.  At most, maybe 8 yrs of meds, and if not a danger to organs, if stopped, then don't see a problem.

 

But surgery, lopping off one's little buddy ... you might want to think a little longer about that.

Forget about decision making. Some of the new laws like in Alabama even ban doctors from providing gender affirming medical care or in some states where doctors and other health care professional can legally refuse to treat LGBTQ. Bigots hatred of LGBTQ has found a ally in the Republicans lawmakers in their crusade. 

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 Somewhere between Hubba, Hubba! and Hubba!

Did an edit, for comparison

 

[Yankeesvsredsox]

5 hours ago, seajae said:

I have no problem with an adult being trans gender, it is their right, doing so does not make them automatically male or female(which many actually state) but it does help them mentally and most do live a better life for it, I knew a few in my younger years and they were really great people, I always enjoyed their company but they didnt become trans females when they were children and did so using rational adult thinking. Young kids do not have the necessary maturity and rational thinking to have life altering medical procedures, they may feel it is right at the time but as we have seen there are those that have gone through the procedures and have regreted it a lot as they aged and matured but it has been too late for them to reverse what was done to them. There are laws for voting age, drinking age, driving age etc, the same needs to be done in this regard as it does effect the rest of their lives and not being mature enough, being able to think rationally without any peer presure or having enough life experience to make such a life altering decision is needed. Sexual orientation can be obvious at young ages and should be accepted by everyone but that does not involve life/body altering changes, this is a whole different kettle of fish and under age kids do need protection until they can make a mature decision with full knowledge of what is involved, I find it very suspect when adults are pushing for young kids with immature thinking to go through life altering procedures to change their bodies.

 

“I find it very suspect when adults are pushing for young kids with immature thinking to go through life altering procedures to change their bodies”.

 

Totally totally,Radical .

1. 

(especially of change or action) relating to or affecting the fundamental nature of something; far-reaching or https://www.encyclopedia.com/science-and-technology/chemistry/organic-chemistry/radical

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Yankeesvsredsox said:

“I find it very suspect when adults are pushing for young kids with immature thinking to go through life altering procedures to change their bodies”.

 

Totally totally,Radical .

1. 

(especially of change or action) relating to or affecting the fundamental nature of something; far-reaching or https://www.encyclopedia.com/science-and-technology/chemistry/organic-chemistry/radical

That's an issue also, and seems a bit to close to 'grooming', I think is the word.

 

To be a 'mature' teen, 15+ or even younger, and know exactly where you lean, then you're kind of screwed and need to be patient for a few yrs, till adulthood.  

 

I had a pretty good idea, who I was 13-14-15, though can't say others were as confident or not subject to outside influence, and make decisions they may regret in the future.  

 

It's OK being 'confused', but leave the life changing meds and or surgery till adulthood.  Confess to ignorance, about the timeline of hormone therapy, prior, during or after puberty sets in or is over.  And effects of starting late, if any, or too early, then change of mind.

[owl sees all]

8 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Biden is simply echoing the majority of Americans that favouring policies that protect transgender individuals from discrimination. 

And what policies might they be Eric?

 

Not allowing men, who say they are women, from competing in women's sport?

Edited March 15, 2023 by owl sees all

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

I had a pretty good idea, who I was 13-14-15, though can't say others were as confident or not subject to outside influence, and make decisions they may regret in the future.  

I had no idea about sex until I was 17.

Late starter, age 52 in Thailand.

[BritManToo]

6 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Just a head shot, as I'd have to dig up the original, non digital in a folder, in a box, somewhere.

 

Hair teased out, make up professionally applied, no facial hair (minus full beard) and my girlfriend didn't even recognize me, and I was talking to her.

 

1987 vs non drag (1990), and one of only times I didn't have facial hair, before coming to TH:

 

Up until 1975 we could have been twins.