Joe Biden administration blames chaotic Afghan pull-out on Trump

[Tug]

10 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

But, not how the withdrawl was to happen. Biden didn't heed the warnings from his own generals. 

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/colorado/news/afghanistan-after-action-reports-state-department-pentagon-white-house/

 

Biden won't own his mistakes, he's an idiot who didn't care what happened.

Ahhh no you are mistaken 

[SunnyinBangrak]

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

Nobody expected the Afghan government to implodes so suddenly, not even the Taliban.  Under those circumstances the withdrawal was doomed to chaos regardless of who was in the White House.

"His remarks echoed those Wednesday of Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Mark Milley, who told reporters nobody predicted the Afghan government and army would collapse in 11 days. Milley said intelligence indicated it could take weeks, months or years for such a collapse after the U.S."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/08/19/biden-said-no-one-predicted-afghanistans-quick-fall-not-even-close/8191588002/

 

Sounds like everybody knew the Afghan govt would fall, and posters are playing with semantics. What difference 11 days or "weeks"? 4 days if my maths are correct.

 

Trump said he would keep a small peacekeeping force there, and called Milley an idiot for saying its cheaper to gift the failing Aghan govt all the planes and equipment rather than fly it out. So not what biden did.

 

Sadly, looks like biden will have to accept blame for this disaster, even if his fans are putting on a brave face and trying to weasel out of taking any responsibility(standard MO) for the moment - aided by activist msm. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by SunnyinBangrak

[EVENKEEL]

2 minutes ago, Tug said:

Ahhh no you are mistaken 

I remember joe afterwards on TV saying basically Oh Well. Biden had months and months to come up with a plan, he failed miserably.

[Scott]

I have been involved in a number of evacuations under varying conditions, some small some larger in scale, including Operation Quick Transit and Pacific Haven.  

All I can say, is that they never go according to any plan.  Dealing with large numbers of people who are in full panic mode does not go well.  

I am actually impressed that the Trump administration had a plan and that it seemed sound enough to be implemented. 

 

I suspect that a fair number of very high level people who were of particular use to the US were out before anyone else.   In one evacuation I was involved in, the minute thing went sideways, the CIA assets were taken out of the country.  

 

Anybody who things these things go well only needs to look at the evacuation from South Vietnam, and that was tiny, with only in the neighborhood of 7,000 people who made it out.  

 

It was never going to end well. 

[sqwakvfr]

35 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

"His remarks echoed those Wednesday of Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Mark Milley, who told reporters nobody predicted the Afghan government and army would collapse in 11 days. Milley said intelligence indicated it could take weeks, months or years for such a collapse after the U.S."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/08/19/biden-said-no-one-predicted-afghanistans-quick-fall-not-even-close/8191588002/

 

Sounds like everybody knew the Afghan govt would fall, and posters are playing with semantics. What difference 11 days or "weeks"? 4 days if my maths are correct.

 

Trump said he would keep a small peacekeeping force there, and called Milley an idiot for saying its cheaper to gift the failing Aghan govt all the planes and equipment rather than fly it out. So not what biden did.

 

Sadly, looks like biden will have to accept blame for this disaster, even if his fans are putting on a brave face and trying to weasel out of taking any responsibility(standard MO) for the moment - aided by activist msm. 

Military Intelligence = OXYMORON.  I know from my time in the Army.

[sqwakvfr]

A picture is worth a 1000 words.  I can think of chaos, poor planning and poor execution.  Military operates in three phases:  1) Attack 2) Hold 3) Withdrawal.  This withdrawal appeared to be like it either was rushed or the plan was improvised.  I can also think of other terms like SNAFU, FUBAR AND BOHICA(for those who do not know this acronym it is Bend Over Here It Comes Again).  

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, vandeventer said:

Many here seem to forget, the the whole world was watching this cruel and stupid move by Biden. Maybe he can tell us about the many hundreds of American's left behind and who's got control of the 85 billion dollars worth of equipment left behind? Blame Trump? Guess again!

 

Can you share with us what fake news source you got that 85 billion dollar figure from?

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

Nobody expected the Afghan government to implodes so suddenly, not even the Taliban.  Under those circumstances the withdrawal was doomed to chaos regardless of who was in the White House.

The Afghan government and army didn't start to "implode" significantly until after Biden was in the WH. The Taliban did not follow the Doha Agreement and this gave Biden the opportunity to do likewise. This article sums up all the others I've read quite well:

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-biden-withdrawal-doha-agreement-taliban-debacle-terrorist-jihadist-islamist-haven-11630435825

[placeholder]

40 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

"His remarks echoed those Wednesday of Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Mark Milley, who told reporters nobody predicted the Afghan government and army would collapse in 11 days. Milley said intelligence indicated it could take weeks, months or years for such a collapse after the U.S."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/08/19/biden-said-no-one-predicted-afghanistans-quick-fall-not-even-close/8191588002/

 

Sounds like everybody knew the Afghan govt would fall, and posters are playing with semantics. What difference 11 days or "weeks"? 4 days if my maths are correct.

 

Trump said he would keep a small peacekeeping force there, and called Milley an idiot for saying its cheaper to gift the failing Aghan govt all the planes and equipment rather than fly it out. So not what biden did.

 

Sadly, looks like biden will have to accept blame for this disaster, even if his fans are putting on a brave face and trying to weasel out of taking any responsibility(standard MO) for the moment - aided by activist msm. 

You mean a small, suicidal peacekeeping force? Ya think American forces are invincible no matter how small the contingent and how powerful the enemy is?  Trump says a lot of things. And the agreement doesn't even allow for the retention of a small peacekeeping force.

[placeholder]

Trump officials back away from 2020 Taliban peace deal after withdrawal chaos

A number of former senior Trump officials have sought to distance themselves from the Taliban peace deal that was signed in February 2020, with chaos erupting after the militants took control of Afghanistan this week.

Why it matters: The agreement has come under new scrutiny for laying the groundwork for the U.S. military's withdrawal from Afghanistan, which coincided with a sweeping Taliban offensive that ended in the fall of Kabul on Sunday.

The big picture: The Trump administration agreed to withdraw from the country by May 1, 2021, if the Taliban negotiated a peace agreement with the Afghan government and promised to prevent terrorist groups like al-Qaeda and the Islamic State from gaining a foothold.

https://www.axios.com/2021/08/20/trump-taliban-agreement-doha-biden

Edited April 8, 2023 by metisdead
6. After pasting a reply format the text you have pasted. An easy way to do this is to click the "Paste as plain text instead" option at the bottom of the reply box.

[vandeventer]

48 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Can you share with us what fake news source you got that 85 billion dollar figure from?

Most Democrats can't count this high but it's a lot..

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/08/26/taliban-now-has-access-85-billion-american-military-equipment/

[nauseus]

28 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Trump officials back away from 2020 Taliban peace deal after withdrawal chaos

A number of former senior Trump officials have sought to distance themselves from the Taliban peace deal that was signed in February 2020, with chaos erupting after the militants took control of Afghanistan this week.

Why it matters: The agreement has come under new scrutiny for laying the groundwork for the U.S. military's withdrawal from Afghanistan, which coincided with a sweeping Taliban offensive that ended in the fall of Kabul on Sunday.

The big picture: The Trump administration agreed to withdraw from the country by May 1, 2021, if the Taliban negotiated a peace agreement with the Afghan government and promised to prevent terrorist groups like al-Qaeda and the Islamic State from gaining a foothold.

https://www.axios.com/2021/08/20/trump-taliban-agreement-doha-biden

"if the Taliban negotiated a peace agreement with the Afghan government" 

[Bkk Brian]

25 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Most Democrats can't count this high but it's a lot..

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/08/26/taliban-now-has-access-85-billion-american-military-equipment/

A claim made by Jim Banks which has been fact checked and is wrong:

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/republicans-inflate-cost-of-taliban-seized-u-s-military-equipment/

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

The Biden Administration had from Feb to Aug of 2021 to plan this withdrawal if the August 31 was a hard deadline for the complete withdrawal of all US Government presence in Afghanistan.  So what was done for 6 months by Anthony Blinken, Lloyd Austin and Mark Miley?

It doesn't matter how well planned the withdrawal was or was not.  If it depended on the Afghan government lasting more than a day after first contact with the Taliban it was doomed.  As noted nobody, not even the Taliban, expected the government to collapse so suddenly.

[placeholder]

53 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Most Democrats can't count this high but it's a lot..

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/08/26/taliban-now-has-access-85-billion-american-military-equipment/

 The Telegraph based this article on the word of 1 person on the strength that he was once a military procurement officer. A purchasing agent in other words.  And this article was written while the withdrawal was still ongoing.  

So here are the facts:

"However, the $83 billion figure cited by Republicans  — more precisely $82.9 billion — is far too high. It comes from a July 30 report by the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction and represents the total appropriated funding for the Afghanistan Security Forces Fund going back to the invasion of Afghanistan in 2001....

About a quarter of the Afghanistan Security Forces Fund since 2001 — more than $18 billion — has been specifically for equipment and transportation, according to the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction report.

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/republicans-inflate-cost-of-taliban-seized-u-s-military-equipment/

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 The Telegraph based this article on the word of 1 person on the strength that he was once a military procurement officer. A purchasing agent in other words.  And this article was written while the withdrawal was still ongoing.  

So here are the facts:

"However, the $83 billion figure cited by Republicans  — more precisely $82.9 billion — is far too high. It comes from a July 30 report by the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction and represents the total appropriated funding for the Afghanistan Security Forces Fund going back to the invasion of Afghanistan in 2001....

About a quarter of the Afghanistan Security Forces Fund since 2001 — more than $18 billion — has been specifically for equipment and transportation, according to the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction report.

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/republicans-inflate-cost-of-taliban-seized-u-s-military-equipment/

Who cares what the true value of kit is? That is deflection. The important issue here is how badly the pull-out was handled. 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

"if the Taliban negotiated a peace agreement with the Afghan government" 

Given that the Trump administration moved ahead on removing 40% of American troops from Afghanistan as stipulated by the agreement, it's clear they weren't waiting for that to happen.

There is nothing in the agreement between the United States and the Taliban that stipulates that. Here's  a link  to the agreement:

https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/02.29.20-US-Afghanistan-Joint-Declaration.pdf

Edited April 8, 2023 by placeholder

[nauseus]

42 minutes ago, heybruce said:

It doesn't matter how well planned the withdrawal was or was not.  If it depended on the Afghan government lasting more than a day after first contact with the Taliban it was doomed.  As noted nobody, not even the Taliban, expected the government to collapse so suddenly.

I'm not sure how anybody can say that. Even a noted nobody.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Who cares what the true value of kit is? That is deflection. The important issue here is how badly the pull-out was handled. 

Well, just because you don't have much use for facts, or consider that the difference between 83 billion and 7 billion is insignificant, those of us who live in a reality based world think differently.

And the fact is that the conditions for the collapse were due in large part to the Trump adminstration's withdrawal of forward based troops in Afghanistan. In fact, the deal was obviously a bad one from the start and reflected Trump's oft-stated desire to get the heck out of there.

[heybruce]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I'm not sure how anybody can say that. Even a noted nobody.

Really?  You don't understand how a plan the requires a semblance of functioning government can fail if there is no such government?

[nauseus]

10 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Really?  You don't understand how a plan the requires a semblance of functioning government can fail if there is no such government?

The plan required a few things to work out but most of them didn't. The Taliban failed to open any meaningful talks for a separate agreement with the Afghan government as intended by the Doha agreement. So the plan couldn't work.

 

The topic problem still concerns the actual withdrawal and how badly it was managed.

Edited April 8, 2023 by nauseus
as

[spidermike007]

Trump no doubt blew it like nearly everything he did as a failed president. But, Biden could have done things differently. He could have had people evacuated earlier and he could have saved tens of billions of equipment, instead of gifting all that to the Taliban. That is a stain he will carry to his grave. 

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 More deflection. The Taliban did not follow the Doha Agreement so Biden was free to increase the military presence again at least enough to secure an orderly withdrawal - but he dithered for at least 4 months - no surprise there.  

You're the one who quoted a false point. And you have failed to defend it. 

As for the Biden administration ignoring violations...

So did the Trump administsration. It continued its withdrawal of troops despite Taliban violations..

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51735315

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2020/Rising Civilian Death Toll in Afghanistan_Costs of War_Dec 7 2020.pdf

https://www.voanews.com/a/south-central-asia_us-confirms-airstrike-afghan-taliban-amid-peace-talks/6199486.html

 

[Longwood50]

Joe learned from his mentor Barack. 

Anything positive take credit for it.

Anything negative blame on the previous adminstration. 

[pomchop]

On 4/6/2023 at 3:51 PM, ChaiyaTH said:

What is your point even? Obviously all taliban would be released anyway, as they are now running the country again.

Just pathetic once again, to blame Trump, Biden is a old moron who behaves like a child when it comes to owning mistakes, just as much, if not more.

Wow that is rich to say biden behaves like a child and try and compare his behavior to the biggest spoiled cry baby ever........ trump is always such a well behaved responsible person except for 99% of the time when he whines repeatedly like a 3 year old who wants ice cream now..there has never been a bigger whiner in or near the white house than trump...not even close.  Everything he has ever done in his life was/is perfect...don't believe that ?just ask him.

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The plan required a few things to work out but most of them didn't. The Taliban failed to open any meaningful talks for a separate agreement with the Afghan government as intended by the Doha agreement. So the plan couldn't work.

 

The topic problem still concerns the actual withdrawal and how badly it was managed.

Wrong as per usual. That may be what you'd like the topic to be, but here's what it actually is: 

"Joe Biden administration blames chaotic Afghan pull-out on Trump"

[Bkk Brian]

25 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Who cares what the true value of kit is? That is deflection. The important issue here is how badly the pull-out was handled. 

The republicans and a poster on here does otherwise they wouldn't  keep quoting incorrect figure's. Lets see, $85 billion claim when it fact it was around $7 Billion

 

US left behind $7 billion of military equipment in Afghanistan after 2021 withdrawal, Pentagon report says

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Longwood50 said:

Joe learned from his mentor Barack. 

Anything positive take credit for it.

Anything negative blame on the previous adminstration. 

I recall when you blamed Joe Biden for the 3.7% decline in GDP for the year 2020. You know, when Trump was President.

[ozimoron]

3 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

No, biden failed. His military experts warned biden.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/colorado/news/afghanistan-after-action-reports-state-department-pentagon-white-house/

Nothing in the article even hints at what you claim. The military considered that Kabul would not come under pressure until late 2021 is what it says.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/7/2023 at 12:27 PM, stevenl said:

I would agree that the withdrawal deal without a plan is on Trump. The execution though was done poorly as well, which is on Biden.

Yeah, and how much of the apparently 10 billion $ worth of military equipment left behind is on Trump? Buck stops at the man sitting in the POTUS chair at the time.

If it was a bad situation Biden should have done what he did with the Keystone XL pipeline.

 

As for the report- according to a US reporter on Al Jazeera it was given to reporters 10 minutes before the news conference.