So ...your on the downhill run

[BigStar]

3 hours ago, TigerandDog said:

The topic is about older people being on a downhill slide physically, and I've suggested a means to slow/reverse that slide.

Maintain a good long healthspan, slow the slide into morbidity to a shorter, steeper period towards the end of a probably longer lifespan. Fries wrote about compression of morbidity in 1980 and the theory has been affirmed and amplified over subsequent decades.

 

 

Fries, James F. “Aging, Natural Death, and the Compression of Morbidity.” New England Journal of Medicine, vol. 303, no. 3, July 1980, pp. 130–35. DOI.org (Crossref), https://doi.org/10.1056/NEJM198007173030304.

[Hummin]

Gaming online playing video games can contribute to better memory and reflexes, and maybe the older we get, we should start of not already started. 

[sidjameson]

12 hours ago, Des1 said:

Mostly true. But a lot has to do with your level of physical activity over the years. I'm 67 (retired), always kept active , running, swimming, mountain biking etc. I run 10k events now, won a few trophies, but the big reward is being healthy. Never too late to get the body back in shape.

Do you think doing all that exercise in the Thailand smog is actually making you healthy? It's the one question I ask myself too.

[Des1]

3 hours ago, sidjameson said:

Do you think doing all that exercise in the Thailand smog is actually making you healthy? It's the one question I ask myself too.

Fair question. I think about it too. My activites in Thailand are limited to running. I will run in the gym on bad air days (like now). Running events I participate in are usually outside Bangkok.

[The Fugitive]

16 hours ago, Des1 said:

Mostly true. But a lot has to do with your level of physical activity over the years. I'm 67 (retired), always kept active , running, swimming, mountain biking etc. I run 10k events now, won a few trophies, but the big reward is being healthy. Never too late to get the body back in shape.

Totally agree. I'm same age and also retired but the last time I excercised was at school sports day 1970. I hated it. Physical activity doesn't agree with me! Mrs complains that all I do is sit in a chair all day drinking tea/coffee and munching biscuits. I explain that's what I've always done and will continue. Whilst my vitals remain excellent and doctors say; 'You're healthier than I am' I can't see any problem. Unfortunately, I had an uncle who dropped dead twenty minutes after passing his Army medical. My Mother died from cancer 4 weeks after a medical assessment unit gave her the all clear. Vital signs may be an indication of general state of health but don't always reveal life threatening conditions IMHO.

[BigStar]

13 hours ago, Hummin said:

Gaming online playing video games can contribute to better memory and reflexes, and maybe the older we get, we should start of not already started. 

Yes! Gaming helps. I have several installed on my PC and play regularly.

[BigStar]

5 hours ago, sidjameson said:

Do you think doing all that exercise in the Thailand smog is actually making you healthy? It's the one question I ask myself too.

I would think the alternative is worse.

 

Vigorous exercise, I do in the gym. HIIT keeps the cardio to 10 minutes of intervals.

 

Recent study on oldsters just came out.

In older adults, high intensity exercise (HIT) elicited similar benefits for oxygen uptake and blood pressure as moderate intensity activity, despite taking only half as long to perform.

Additionally, HIT resulted in improvements in working memory.

     --High-intensity exercise shown to be beneficial for untrained older adults
 

I do a moderate intensity walk 3 times a week on the beach. The air's not as bad in Pattaya.

 

So far so good anyway.

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, The Fugitive said:

Physical activity doesn't agree with me!

Me neither. I do it anyway, like brushing my teeth. Without exercise, including strength training, there's no slowing the inevitable loss of muscle and strength--and then sarcopenia.

 

That's why you find most older guys shuffling or waddling or walking slowly. Telling indicator of frailty right there. It's amazing how dangerous falls are for the elderly. 30% might die within a year afterward.

 

 

Often, by the time sarcopenia is diagnosed—if it ever is—a person’s abilities are so limited, and their complications so numerous, that it’s difficult to treat.  

 

“As you’re getting older and older, [gaining] muscle back is very difficult, almost impossible,” says Hans Dreyer, a University of Oregon muscle physiologist.

    --https://proto.life/2022/12/sarcopenia-what-a-waste/

 

The good news is that even a little exercise goes far.

 

Keep in mind, increasing your VO2 max by any amount is going to improve your life, not only in terms of how long you live but also how well you live, today and in the future. Improving your VO2 max from the very bottom quartile to the quartile above (i.e., below average) is associated with almost a 50 percent reduction in all-cause mortality, as we saw earlier. I believe that almost anyone is capable of achieving this—and they should, because the alternative is so unacceptable. Once maximal oxygen consumption or VO2 max drops below a certain level (typically about 18 ml/kg/min in men, and 15 in women), it begins to threaten your ability to live on your own.

     --Peter Attia, Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity

 

1 hour ago, The Fugitive said:

Vital signs may be an indication of general state of health but don't always reveal life threatening conditions IMHO.

True. They don't, and then they do, perhaps with surprising suddenness, a decade earlier than they might have. Seen how that works.

 

By the time some preventable underlying condition shows up on the usual routine tests, damage has been done. Now comes the effort to deal with, in your case, the symptoms, for a decade or more. Unfortunately, the meds for alleviating symptoms may make the condition worse. They may have side effects you may not be aware of, ignore, or simply excuse.

 

Vital signs are too basic. Need a full blood workup at least every two years--and know what the numbers mean, like the TG/HDL ratio. I do one yearly.

[Colabamumbai]

72 Happy in Mae Rampung, at home, or walking the beach. Travelled the world 22 countries, wrote 15 books. Happy. 

[The Fugitive]

1 hour ago, BigStar said:

and know what the numbers mean, like the TG/HDL ratio.

Thanks for the info. I had these taken last July but didn't understand the importance. TG was abnormal, HDL normal. Just calculated the ratio now at; 1.50.

[BigStar]

21 hours ago, LaosLover said:

learned a lot here from Big Star and Lacset and others. Not too many sources available about late age training from people who have actually done it.

"Welcome to the rebellion, brotha"

[LaosLover]

4 hours ago, BigStar said:

"Welcome to the rebellion, brotha"

There's a profitable blog or sub stack to be had here, since the old people who want to work out are many and the resources available to their unique needs are very few or non-existent.

 

There was a woman featured in New York Mag who makes huge money with a weight training site for women in their 40's. 

 

There's only one book for later age weight training available on Amazon, and it's confusingly laid out.

 

Googling on questions like rest times, you're always fighting through a sea of "it depends" when you're looking at site that's more about selling me supplements than giving me advice for free.

 

Most of sites skews younger, but then Senior-oriented sites go the other way and assume your on death's door and fit only for "chair yoga", like I saw on Better Call Saul.

 

Personal trainers in Thailand are more like activity pals. They correct your form and hold your iced tea. It's not individualized training, even by age, it's a very generic program from their computer.

 

They body-analyzed me, and then they never followed up on it, even with prompting. There's no explanation of concepts, even at the basic lifts and superset level.

 

Even in a western-oriented neighborhood ( I live in Nimman, Chiang Mai), there often a bit of a language barrier. They often don't know the English words for stuff like hypertrophy.

 

I signed up for 50 sessions! 34 down, 16 to try out with another trainer. On the plus side, it worked out to only 500 baht a session -and it did make me go.

 

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by LaosLover

[LaosLover]

7 hours ago, BigStar said:

Vital signs are too basic. Need a full blood workup at least every two years--and know what the numbers mean, like the TG/HDL ratio. I do one yearly.

Bumrungrad has a kind of super HDL test they're offering, a deeper dive into which kinds of cholesterol are affecting you in various ways. 

 

Hype or for real?

 

I'm going to do genetic testing for cancer prevention and thought I'd add the test, along with one for heavy metals. Might as well toss it on the pile.

Edited April 13, 2023 by LaosLover

[3NUMBAS]

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1744207/michael-caine-health-latest

[3NUMBAS]

Tom Cruise Helps Michael Caine Celebrate His 90th Birthday

BYJEREMY DICK

PUBLISHED MAR 15, 2023

 

Tom Cruise helped Michael Caine celebrate his special day.

 

[Hummin]

18 minutes ago, LaosLover said:

There's a profitable blog or sub stack to be had here, since the old people who want to work out are many and the resources available to their unique needs are very few or non-existent.

 

There was a woman featured in New York Mag who makes huge money with a weight training site for women in their 40's. 

 

There's only one book for later age weight training available on Amazon, and it's confusingly laid out.

 

Googling on questions like rest times, you're always fighting through a sea of "it depends" when you're looking at site that's more about selling me supplements than giving me advice for free.

 

Most of sites skews younger, but then Senior-oriented sites go the other way and assume your on death's door and fit only for "chair yoga", like I saw on Better Call Saul.

 

Personal trainers in Thailand are more like activity pals. They correct your form and hold your iced tea. It's not individualized training, even by age, it's a very generic program from their computer.

 

They body-analyzed me, and then they never followed up on it, even with prompting. There's no explanation of concepts, even at the basic lifts and superset level.

 

Even in a western-oriented neighborhood ( I live in Nimman, Chiang Mai), there often a bit of a language barrier. They often don't know the English words for stuff like hypertrophy.

 

I signed up for 50 sessions! 34 down, 16 to try out with another trainer. On the plus side, it worked out to only 500 baht a session -and it did make me go.

 

 

So far I have not seen one PT in Thailand know what they are doing, or manage to make individual training programs, or can show and teach how to get in contact with the muscles targeted by doing the exercises correct. 

 

For most the gym is a social thing, get out and do something, where very few manage to put in the necessery effort for best results. Not saying lifting more heavy, more reps or more pulse, but get max results from their efforts put in the correct way, and also prevent injuries, as well threat old injuries. 

 

one thing to see it on youtube, but make it in reality is not as easy all the time, if do not have experienced qualified PT to correct you. 

[3NUMBAS]

can you stand on 1 leg with eyes closed for 20  seconds if not your doomed

[3NUMBAS]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/apr/13/uk-in-rapidly-escalating-diabetes-crisis-as-cases-top-5m-report-says

 

UK in ‘rapidly escalating’ diabetes crisis as cases top 5m, report says

Diabetes UK study also expresses concern about growing number of younger people with type 2

[3NUMBAS]

What is the main cause of sarcopenia?

 

 

Causes include declines in hormones and numbers of neuromuscular junctions, increased inflammation, declines in activity, and inadequate nutrition. Newer molecular discoveries that may impact sarcopenia include alterations in mitochondrial biology, the angiotensin system, and apoptosis.

[bignok]

On 4/12/2023 at 6:46 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Meanwhile in real life......................

Theories don't make me happy the way a pretty body next to me when I woke up did.

This is true. My gf is very good looking. Just looking at her makes me smile.

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, LaosLover said:

There's a profitable blog or sub stack to be had here, since the old people who want to work out are many and the resources available to their unique needs are very few or non-existent.

Good post.

 

I've thought of creating a thread to relate what I've learned and give a list of resources. Most sites and advice are geared towards the money: young men with the dream of attracting babes. They'll buy anything.???? The methods are derived from Arnold bodybuilding. No wonder the eventual burnout and Dad bod.

 

But most people only know about that, if anything. Our old resident bodybuilding guru, recently injured I seem to recall, didn't actually know what fitness is.

 

So it's intimidating to think of all that time and effort to be expended in the gym. (Effective alternatives exist.) Not to mention a bit dangerous for seniors, for a number of reasons.

 

However, the (cough) ethos of the forum discourages such a post. All the arguing, hostility, dogmatic pronouncements, nitpicking, proud affirmations of elbow bending, confusion of healthspan and lifespan, anecdotes about The Relatives or The Guys ("I knew some guys . . . ."), blah blah.

 

Too much hostility. The entire goal of ANF Longevity Science is actually to create excuses and rationalizations for NOT dieting OR exercising. That is, to be happy blobs. The happiness of chasing docs and meds is somehow overlooked, however.

 

Only a very few would be seriously interested and prepare to be convinced. And it does take some time after the decades of brainwashing. One Twitter poster joked that it took him 10,000 hours to learn that he can just spend a minimum 1 hour (an intense hour) a week strength training.????

 

So I post more on sites w/ members who share the same goals of health & fitness. Mostly younger people, but some older guys show up. NO hostility there.

 

You might read Dear Over-45 Trainee… by a well-respected older trainer w/ a long track record. He's spot on.

 

I follow P. D. Mangan, 68, daily on Twitter, one of my faves. But it requires some background reading really to understand what he's doing, why, and how he does it. He offers well-regarded 1-on-1 training that'd be worth it for those who can afford it and want the shortcut. 

 

I also follow Alexander Cortes, offers courses not too expensive. On Instagram, he's also got a great series on form. Knows what he's doing. He has a broad appeal.

 

I favor intelligent, educated, well-read trainers who are all about fitness, not bodybuilding. Their Twitter feeds attract more intelligent, wittier comments, too. Today on AJAC one poster wrote:

 

Self development for women is, “You are amazing, learn to love your perfect bad ass self.”

 

For men it’s, “You’re a loser, time is running out, here’s how to get it together before you die a losing loser.” Probably a bit harsh but directionally not hard to see as more effective.

 

We seem to be getting a lot more of the self-development for women here. ????

 

1 hour ago, LaosLover said:

Personal trainers in Thailand are more like activity pals. They correct your form and hold your iced tea. It's not individualized training, even by age, it's a very generic program from their computer.

Exactly. Their preferred form should also be checked against some guru like Athlean-X on youtube. Also, they'll promote exercises you shouldn't be doing. They're out of date.

 

Better than nothing, to get started, I guess, if you check behind them. The untrained in the gym--well, they're often funny (some guy playing imaginary hula hoop), but also setting themselves up for injury. I wince at some of the antics.

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by BigStar

[simon43]

[quote]

...

The record for the hundred-meter dash for women ages one hundred and up is about forty-one seconds.

...

[/quote]

 

Perhaps a better description would be 'stagger' rather than 'dash'!  But all kudos to them at that age ????

[BigStar]

49 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Perhaps a better description would be 'stagger' rather than 'dash'!  But all kudos to them at that age ????

When you're a hundred or older, you'll then regard it as a dash.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

can you stand on 1 leg with eyes closed for 20  seconds if not your doomed

Never heard of that and just did it- I'm DOOMED! Only managed 5 seconds.

Bit scary to be truthful.

 

I'm really not a fan of being old.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/apr/13/uk-in-rapidly-escalating-diabetes-crisis-as-cases-top-5m-report-says

 

UK in ‘rapidly escalating’ diabetes crisis as cases top 5m, report says

Diabetes UK study also expresses concern about growing number of younger people with type 2

Is anyone surprised, given the amount of sugar that we eat now? I was lucky that it wasn't in everything when I was growing up.

[LaosLover]

Life expectancy calculators put me at a 92-97 check-out age.  I have a reassuring 85% chance of making it to 84.  

 

With new life-extending stuff in the pipeline and an 11 years younger wife, plus some money in the bank, I'm shooting for 100+.

 

I'll def be seriously chilling around '90 (at the latest). Prob go back go our Christmas tree farm in America. We just planted an orchard with that in mind on our back slope. 20 years from now, 4 kinds of pears plucked off a tree (by someone else) will be a big deal to me. And I'll be drowning in them.

 

If my wife goes first (50/50% possibility), I'd prob just run out the clock in my condo in Nimman.

 

Selling the farm would mean more money than I could ever spend. I wish I could send some of it down the time tunnel to my 20 year old self who had to had to walk to work for a month to save up for Mott The Hoople tickets (opening act: Queen).  

 

So either way, these current years (70 to 80) look to be the freest and best years of my life. And then the fade out looks to be as benign as it gets.

 

Elon Musk can have everything, but he can't buy the level of plush life, love and peace that I merely have to keep breathing to collect on. A lot of your life is down to luck, but some of it is down to personal integrity and growth.

Edited April 14, 2023 by LaosLover

[Hummin]

2 hours ago, LaosLover said:

 

 

Elon Musk can have everything, but he can't buy the level of plush life, love and peace that I merely have to keep breathing to collect on. A lot of your life is down to luck, but some of it is down to personal integrity and growth.

Elon Musk will work to he die, or end up as the misunderstood genius depressed and wine about AI.

 

Its a good thing we do not know the future, but we are reminded every how bad it is going to be! 

 

At least there is light in the end, hopefully The End, The Beautiful End!

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, LaosLover said:

Life expectancy calculators put me at a 92-97 check-out age.  I have a reassuring 85% chance of making it to 84.  

 

With new life-extending stuff in the pipeline and an 11 years younger wife, plus some money in the bank, I'm shooting for 100+.

 

I'll def be seriously chilling around '90 (at the latest). Prob go back go our Christmas tree farm in America. We just planted an orchard with that in mind on our back slope. 20 years from now, 4 kinds of pears plucked off a tree (by someone else) will be a big deal to me. And I'll be drowning in them.

 

If my wife goes first (50/50% possibility), I'd prob just run out the clock in my condo in Nimman.

 

Selling the farm would mean more money than I could ever spend. I wish I could send some of it down the time tunnel to my 20 year old self who had to had to walk to work for a month to save up for Mott The Hoople tickets (opening act: Queen).  

 

So either way, these current years (70 to 80) look to be the freest and best years of my life. And then the fade out looks to be as benign as it gets.

 

Elon Musk can have everything, but he can't buy the level of plush life, love and peace that I merely have to keep breathing to collect on. A lot of your life is down to luck, but some of it is down to personal integrity and growth.

LOL. I also thought that old age would be a pleasant existence, but old age has some unpleasant side effects that can kick such illusions into touch.

 

Elon Musk has enough money to afford the best that medicine can provide, unlike us normal folk.

I think he might be doing better health wise that you or I, when it comes to it, and for sure he can afford all the pleasures he wants.

[LaosLover]

I'd rather hear from you than him any day of the week. So there's that.

 

Your medical situation is always a wild card. Now you see you, now you don't.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. I also thought that old age would be a pleasant existence, but old age has some unpleasant side effects that can kick such illusions into touch.

 

Elon Musk has enough money to afford the best that medicine can provide, unlike us normal folk.

I think he might be doing better health wise that you or I, when it comes to it, and for sure he can afford all the pleasures he wants.

Once you understand the average age of healthy life expectancy is 62, and the disability free age of life expectancy is 63, then you can make plans for the reality of old age.

(Stats found by Chomper https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandlifeexpectancies/bulletins/healthstatelifeexpectanciesuk/2018to2020)

 

Living to 100 would mean 37 years of sickness!

Edited April 15, 2023 by BritManToo