Mixed responses to calls for ending compulsory military service in Thailand

[webfact]

Photo Courtesy of Bangkok Post

 

by Mitch Connor

Academics and human rights defenders have provided mixed responses to the increasing calls to end compulsory military service in Thailand, intensifying as the May 14 polls approach. The Move Forward Party and the Pheu Thai Party have both pledged they will terminate compulsory service in favor of voluntary enlistment if they win the elections and form the next government.

 

These parties have proposed that the Defence Ministry reduce the number of young men required for military service under the current conscription system, in which Thai men aged 21 can be drafted for up to two years. Public opinion towards military conscription has become increasingly negative, with reports of violence in military camps, subpar food quality, and inappropriate use of conscript labor cited as reasons.

Panitan Wattanayagorn, an independent academic and security expert, has revealed that the army has conducted a study into voluntary military systems, which have already been implemented in some regions. However, the expenses associated with training soldiers in such a system are higher compared to conscription. Panitan also argued that conscription presents benefits, including instilling self-discipline in the conscripts, who serve the country.

 

The academic explained that the army has not completely considered transitioning from conscription to a voluntary system, as some voluntary candidates might fail to meet the necessary criteria. Rather, a hybrid system combining the two might attract people’s interest, offering them the opportunity to work in military hospitals or military enterprises, and the prospect of career advancement within the armed forces.

 

In response to proposals to downsize the military, Panitan cited the capped armed forces and reduced number of generals implemented by the Chuan Leekpai government during the 1990s economic recession. This order was subsequently annulled by former Prime Minister Chavalit Yongchaiyudh.

 

Full story: https://thethaiger.com/news/national/mixed-responses-to-calls-for-ending-compulsory-military-service-in-thailand

 

-- © Copyright Thaiger 2023-05-11

 

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[Will B Good]

3 minutes ago, webfact said:

The academic explained that the army has not completely considered transitioning from conscription to a voluntary system, as some voluntary candidates might fail to meet the necessary criteria.

Well here's a radical notion...............reject them during the selection process.

[bob smith]

Why do those who dont want to do the draft just refuse to go?

What will happen to someone if they just outright refused to draw a ball?

 

after all, you cant force a human to do something if they really dont want to.

 

Might be an interesting tactic to try for those pacifists among us. they may send you to jail for a few months but its still arguably better than wasting 2 years of your youth with a bunch of machine gun toting toy soldiers from nakhon nowhere!

Edited May 11, 2023 by bogs smith

[Will B Good]

Going into the Armed forces should be about serving your country with the prospect of having a career in the forces or gaining a trade.

 

The Thai armed forces offer neither unless you are a hi-so.

[dinsdale]

10 minutes ago, webfact said:

Rather, a hybrid system combining the two might attract people’s interest

This makes no sense at all to me or am I missing something. If a person is interested they would enlist. Conscription is to force those who are not interested into military service.

[AhFarangJa]

6 minutes ago, bogs smith said:

Why do those who dont want to do the draft just refuse to go?

What will happen to someone if they just outright refused to draw a ball?

 

after all, you cant force a human to do something if they really dont want to.

 

Might be an interesting tactic to try for those pacifists among us. they may send you to jail for a few months but its still arguably better than wasting 2 years of your youth with a bunch of machine gun toting toy soldiers from nakhon nowhere!

Several years ago, well, over 10 actually, the Brother in Law was conscripted. He lasted three weeks then went AWOL due to the (in his words), incessant bullying, and slave labour. He came back to the village, but no-one came after him. He hid low around the countryside for a number of years then went to renew his i.d. card thinking they may catch him. Absolutely nothing. I.D. renewed, and never a tweet from the Army.

[steven100]

20 minutes ago, webfact said:

calls to end compulsory military service in Thailand

no way ......  for gods sake don't even consider it.   It teaches the young about discipline, leadership, empowerment, skills and fitness.  It hopefully keeps them occupied for a few months or years instead of getting in crime and drugs.  

If other countries had mandatory conscription maybe there would be less young people taking up drugs and criminal activity.   

[bob smith]

18 minutes ago, steven100 said:

no way ......  for gods sake don't even consider it.   It teaches the young about discipline, leadership, empowerment, skills and fitness. 

No, it doesn't.

[steven100]

1 minute ago, bogs smith said:

No, it doesn't.

it does if it's managed correctly with proper programs in place and correct training with experienced instructors. I know that's not the case here,  but I'm just saying it would be beneficial if run correctly.

[bob smith]

Just now, steven100 said:

it does if it's managed correctly with proper programs in place and correct training with experienced instructors. I know that's not the case here,  but I'm just saying it would be beneficial if run correctly.

it isnt run correctly though is it? thats the issue.

 

why anyone would want to do military service in a country like thailand is beyond me.

 

i can only imagine the stuff that must go on to those poor kids during their training. ive heard stories before and quite shocking they were!

[harada]

What will the Officers do for gardeners, house cleaners and car washers if conscription is abolished ? 

[MrMojoRisin]

34 minutes ago, steven100 said:

no way ......  for gods sake don't even consider it.   It teaches the young about discipline, leadership, empowerment, skills and fitness.  It hopefully keeps them occupied for a few months or years instead of getting in crime and drugs.  

If other countries had mandatory conscription maybe there would be less young people taking up drugs and criminal activity.   

It teaches them how to be domestic servants for Generals wives or gets them beaten to death during hazing. Thailand does not need a standing military force of 500,000 and it certainly doesn’t need over 1,000 Generals. Cut the numbers, cut the budget and spend the money on something that benefits society. 

[stoner]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

The Move Forward Party and the Pheu Thai Party have both pledged they will terminate compulsory service in favor of voluntary enlistment if they win the elections and form the next government.

coup makers.....hold my beer.

[Snig27]

30 minutes ago, steven100 said:

it does if it's managed correctly with proper programs in place and correct training with experienced instructors. I know that's not the case here,  but I'm just saying it would be beneficial if run correctly.

Experience the world over has shown that volunteer militaries are vastly better at doing their job. Your position that Thailand, a country whose current military has yet to win a war against anyone aside from unarmed civilians, is capable of something more is possibly best described as quaint. 

The military in Thailand is oversized, bloated, over funded and largely operates as an illegal state within a state, one that has caused this nation immense historical harm and continues to do so. These kids are used as slave fodder for this monolith and for many their lives are destroyed (or worse) by this pointless experience.

The army needs to be downsized and brought firmly under civilian control if this country is to have any future in the changing 21st Century. It will happen but removing conscription is central to that process. 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Snig27

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

no way ......  for gods sake don't even consider it.   It teaches the young about discipline, leadership, empowerment, skills and fitness.  It hopefully keeps them occupied for a few months or years instead of getting in crime and drugs.

Two different viewpoints to this story, and I can add a little something to both of them.

A young man here who was helping out at a friends bar went into the Army and came out of his time, much changed, with a better attitude towards others and towards work, and he is now married with a young child and is a nice, polite young man.
 

46 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

It teaches them how to be domestic servants for Generals wives or gets them beaten to death during hazing. Thailand does not need a standing military force of 500,000 and it certainly doesn’t need over 1,000 Generals. Cut the numbers, cut the budget and spend the money on something that benefits society. 

On the other hand when I was looking at renting a large house in an area just outside of Chiang Rai, which consisted of many of these larger houses on a few acres of land, all with manicured lawns and small gardens, and I commented on this, and the person showing us around, said that the whole area belonged to a General and that he would get soldiers to come and do the gardening and keep everything in good order – – so I wondered if that was "part of their training" or if they were just employed as lackeys for the general?

Edited May 11, 2023 by xylophone

[steven100]

9 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Two different viewpoints to this story, and I can add a little something to both of them.

A young man here who was helping out at a friends bar went into the Army and came out of his time, much changed, with a better attitude towards others and towards work, and he is now married with a young child and is a nice, polite young man.
 

And that's exactly my point,  if run correctly it helps initially to keep the young of the streets and getting into trouble,  teaches them to grow up with responsibilities and become good citizens of their community.

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, bogs smith said:

Why do those who dont want to do the draft just refuse to go?

What will happen to someone if they just outright refused to draw a ball?

Heavy fine or off to the pokey?

[phil2407]

Panatin Watt(ever) 

However, the expenses associated with training soldiers in such a system are higher compared to conscription. 

How??? Same training, same salary, same medical before joining & if not good enough you're rejected!

Guess this is expert logic for you with a twist of Thainess 

 

 

 

[mrfill]

2 hours ago, steven100 said:

And that's exactly my point,  if run correctly it helps initially to keep the young of the streets and getting into trouble,  teaches them to grow up with responsibilities and become good citizens of their community.

Can you name ANY country where this has worked?

[richard_smith237]

Well, this is never going to happen... 

 

There are too many influential people who simply make too much money from people trying to get out of conscription.... 

 

 

 

[h90]

I am for it, but it isn't a simple process

[Purdey]

As a pacifist, compulsory military training is not always appropriate. You're basically teaching people how to kill - oops, sorry, I meant defend the country. Many examples of people who are ex-military or ex-cops shooting others. I don't mean they are all bad, but it requires thinking about.

A smaller but professional army would demand better salaries and skill training but defend the nation better than conscripts.

[zzaa09]

6 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

It teaches them how to be domestic servants for Generals wives or gets them beaten to death during hazing. Thailand does not need a standing military force of 500,000 and it certainly doesn’t need over 1,000 Generals. Cut the numbers, cut the budget and spend the money on something that benefits society. 

This action will require approval and blessings, which of course will never come about. 

The Thai military has one purpose - protection racket. 

[Jumbo1968]

7 hours ago, steven100 said:

no way ......  for gods sake don't even consider it.   It teaches the young about discipline, leadership, empowerment, skills and fitness.  It hopefully keeps them occupied for a few months or years instead of getting in crime and drugs.  

If other countries had mandatory conscription maybe there would be less young people taking up drugs and criminal activity.   

It might do in other countries, in the U.K. they can come out with a trade, what do they have when they leave the army in Thailand, discipline, that won’t get them a job.

[Jumbo1968]

Who have Thailand got to defend itself against, they would be overrun in 5 minutes if some one decided to attack them.

Spend the money on education teaching the kids a trade or in higher education. 
 

[The Fugitive]

My Thai nephew was between employment contracts and welcomed the opportunity. He served 12 months at the 23rd Military Circle base which houses a military court. We went on visiting days to see him as did his girlfriend. He was very pleased to be able to apply his Japanese language skills in Army radio communications. He delivered rice to villages that were about to be flooded. Afterwards he said he enjoyed his time but not enough to enlist as a regular.

[steven100]

13 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

My Thai nephew was between employment contracts and welcomed the opportunity. He served 12 months at the 23rd Military Circle base which houses a military court. We went on visiting days to see him as did his girlfriend. He was very pleased to be able to apply his Japanese language skills in Army radio communications. He delivered rice to villages that were about to be flooded. Afterwards he said he enjoyed his time but not enough to enlist as a regular.

good comment and personal experience ... i'm truly glad he got through it without any problem as we know anything can happen in the army.  Well done to him.  tks ... makes me feel good.

[transam]

3 hours ago, Purdey said:

As a pacifist, compulsory military training is not always appropriate. You're basically teaching people how to kill - oops, sorry, I meant defend the country. Many examples of people who are ex-military or ex-cops shooting others. I don't mean they are all bad, but it requires thinking about.

A smaller but professional army would demand better salaries and skill training but defend the nation better than conscripts.

You are probably alive because of soldiers that didn't want to be soldiers, don't forget that.............

[herfiehandbag]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

sHowever, the expenses associated with training soldiers in such a system are higher compared to conscription.

The expenses associated with conscripted soldiers are minimal.

 

They don't really carry out any meaningful training, their kit is decades old and worn out, and when they do pay them it is pretty meagre.

[transam]

31 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

The expenses associated with conscripted soldiers are minimal.

 

They don't really carry out any meaningful training, their kit is decades old and worn out, and when they do pay them it is pretty meagre.

I was told 3,000bht per month, wiv cr_p grub....