Facial recognition for Banking apps

[Dan O]

3 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Yes, that's right, it has to be done before +50k transfers can be made and that procedure starts on 23rd June, there is not a deadline of 23rd June for the photo to be taken as you stated, that can be done anytime.

That's your idea of what I said and meant so we'll just leave it at the message from Krungsri.  

 

Have a great day 

[Liverpool Lou]

1 minute ago, Dan O said:

That's your idea of what I said and meant so we'll just leave it at the message from Krungsri.  

Suits me fine, as that's is what you did say.

[Dan O]

3 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Suits me fine, as that's is what you did say.

It appears your just trolling now to continue to argue. I haven't fixated on your using the wrong date in you comments, so you need to just move on 

 

  I'm done with this discussion with you 

 

[jeffandgop]

On 5/26/2023 at 6:18 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

They're not, it only applies to mobile banking, so far.  Presumably because that's where the vast majority of frauds/scams are perpetrated.

How do you know this to be restricted to only mobile banking? Nowhere have I seen anything that cites this...

 

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, jeffandgop said:

On 5/26/2023 at 6:18 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

They're not, it only applies to mobile banking, so far.  Presumably because that's where the vast majority of frauds/scams are perpetrated.

Expand  

How do you know this to be restricted to only mobile banking? Nowhere have I seen anything that cites this...

I know because I have online banking on my computer and the same banks' phone apps ( except KTB which no longer has internet/computer banking) and none of them have sent notifications that facial recognition will be introduced for computer-based banking as they have done for phone app banking.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

My Bangkok Bank account was restricted to transfers of under 50k by the new BoT regulations, so I went to the Bangkok Bank branch at Seacon Square today and submitted my passport, bankbook, signed the form and got my photo taken. All very efficient.

 

Went upstairs to do the same at SCB. Equally efficient and polite, but was turned away and advised that the photo requirement was only applicable to Thai nationals. I was shown something on the staff's mobile phone that I assume was an internal document stating this. 

 

Has anyone had a similar experience with SCB? 

 

 

[KhunBENQ]

11 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

Has anyone had a similar experience with SCB?

Was at Bangkok Bank and SCB today.

Bangkok Bank hopefully finished, picture taken although no message(?) so far.

AND just was successful in raising limit.

The process was a bit erratic. Took some attempts with the face in frame

 

SCB: sat with the female clerk for about ten minutes.

She seemed to have no idea what to do.

She called Bangkok and the woman on the line told me it would be ready on July 4th and I would be notified through some channel.

(other posters seem to have gone through similar and told some ready dates)

So far SCB has not cut down limits.

 

Similar with Kasikorn, limits unchanged and seems not ready.

Yesterday this message popped up from the app:

 

[KhunBENQ]

That seems to become "big fun".

I managed one successful scan with Bangkok Bank raising daily.

Now since 10 minutes trying to do a transfer > 50 and felt like a 100 attempts to repeat the success.

What comes as an extra bonus: if the "green" frame appears you have to do some grimace like blink or smile, instructed on screen. Too bad I can't read that without glasses on.

If that doesn't change it sounds like a lot of frustration and trouble, visits to the bank etc.

Will now check the website....

Thanks heaven BKB website works as usual.

Looks like the app will develop to tool for "minor deals".

In an emergency I can use the BKB website on the mobile (with magnifying glasses ).

[MJCM]

I have been to Bangkok Bank weeks ago and did the face scan etc and they said it's alright, but the new Mobile Bangkok Bank APP has a feature to check the status and for me it fails but for my wife (who did the face scan on the same day as I did) its all oke

 

So I am going back to the BANK and ask what is going one

[NanLaew]

On 5/26/2023 at 3:52 PM, Sigma6 said:

Quite why the BOT insists on forcing banks and their app developers to implement a highly technical security measure, which will obviously have lots of problems until they perfect it, when all the big tech phone manufacturers already have biometric security built in to their phones.

Because "all the big tech phone manufacturers" aren't in any way responsible for billions of baht held by millions of customers.

 

On 5/26/2023 at 3:52 PM, Sigma6 said:

You can guarantee that the fingerprint scanners/faceID systems are way more secure, and reliable than what a thai bank will implement - based off a photo.

Why do you think a Thai bank's "face ID system" will be less secure and reliable than say a non-Thai bank's" face ID system"? Serious question.

 

On 5/26/2023 at 3:52 PM, Sigma6 said:

Couldnt they just force the app to require biometrics for any transfer - in fact my Kplus already does to open the app, and then also asks for a PIN for any transfer.

Because it is about improved security: belt AND braces. Some people will still need to write them down or share them with trusted people so PIN numbers are a horrendously unsecure authorization method. When hackers can spoof a mobile phone's numbers and gain illicit access, even the OTP method can be compromised. The elevated security of 2FA has only seen a more determined effort by hackers to break that system.

[Sigma6]

 

13 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Why do you think a Thai bank's "face ID system" will be less secure and reliable than say a non-Thai bank's" face ID system"? Serious question.

Because of R&D budgets and talent available to implement it.

Because on device fingerprint readers / face ID scanners require a physical input that is verified on device, all done securely with no interface with any app or server.  A system employed by a bank to work on all phones / operating systems, based off a photo taken in branch, clearly has more potential for problems - you only need to see khunBENQ's comment 3 posts up

My HSBC expat app now uses my phone's security to verify transfers -previously I had to use a 'secure key' code generator - they also have a few billion to take care of.

 

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

Because it is about improved security: belt AND braces. Some people will still need to write them down or share them with trusted people so PIN numbers are a horrendously unsecure authorization method. When hackers can spoof a mobile phone's numbers and gain illicit access, even the OTP method can be compromised. The elevated security of 2FA has only seen a more determined effort by hackers to break that system.

Exaclty, thats why I'm suggesting the bank could use a phones inbuilt BIOMETRIC security - its almost impossible to spoof

Don't get me wrong; improved security is good, only I dont see where its been improved with this development

[NanLaew]

18 hours ago, Sigma6 said:

 

Because of R&D budgets and talent available to implement it.

Because on device fingerprint readers / face ID scanners require a physical input that is verified on device, all done securely with no interface with any app or server.  A system employed by a bank to work on all phones / operating systems, based off a photo taken in branch, clearly has more potential for problems - you only need to see khunBENQ's comment 3 posts up

My HSBC expat app now uses my phone's security to verify transfers -previously I had to use a 'secure key' code generator - they also have a few billion to take care of.

 

Exaclty, thats why I'm suggesting the bank could use a phones inbuilt BIOMETRIC security - its almost impossible to spoof

Don't get me wrong; improved security is good, only I dont see where its been improved with this development

You seem to be suggesting that Thai banks are relying solely on Thai developers. With the possible exception of India, I doubt ANY bank in ANY country relies on 100% home-grown talent to develop their apps.

 

There's a disclaimer on smartphone fingerprint readers because as you say, their implementation is "almost impossible to spoof". Almost isn't 100% secure. That's why every so often, my smartphone requires I re-enter the PIN login for verification in-lieu of the fingerprint.

 

Maybe the Thai bank's collective photo requirement isn't meant to be a giant leap in online banking security but closes an online fraud channel that's unique to Thailand.

 

My Revolut account mostly uses the biometrics of my smartphone's fingerpront scanner and I've also needed to enter a OTP very quickly but every so often, I need to show my face as well.

[blackcab]

29 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Maybe the Thai bank's collective photo requirement isn't meant to be a giant leap in online banking security but closes an online fraud channel that's unique to Thailand.

 

Taking a photo/video capture almost totally eliminates banks own customers successfully defrauding the bank and protects the bank as much as the customer.

 

This isn't a new principle. Decades ago banks had a similar problem with customers misremembering they used an ATM and disputing the withdrawal. That is why every ATM now has one or two cameras installed in them that can take photos or videos of every transaction and instantly upload the same for storage and retrieval on the bank's servers.

[stubuzz]

Krungthai told me today that no photo was needed even though a message in the app told me to go to the bank with my passport.

[Mutt Daeng]

9 hours ago, stubuzz said:

Krungthai told me today that no photo was needed even though a message in the app told me to go to the bank with my passport.

I've just checked my Krungthai Next app and also received the message telling me to go to the bank.

[aublumberg]

Went to Siam Paragon in Bangkok to cover all my banks in one go wrt the 50k limit. Here’s a brief rundown of my experiences: 

 

1. Kasikorn Bank: Transfer limit was not enforced before going there. “We have no policy for non-Thai, no need to do facial scan, no limitations, no plans, not aware of any plans, no forms to sign, nothing.” Am able to change daily limits and transfer. Let’s see if it stays this way or if there is more to this story in future.

 

2. UOB: There was never a limit enforced, tried again just before visiting them. All working normally. They still took a photo of me and did the registration and said it will take 2 - 3 days to process. Let’s see what happens next.
 

3. Bangkok Bank: Transfer limit was enforced prior to going there. Registered, took a photo, and it worked right away. Able to raise daily limit, able to make larger than 50k transfer. Efficient staff, friendly service, five mins all done. Impressed.
 

4. SCB: Transfer limit was enforced prior to going there. For foreigners they provide no means to scan. Instead they offer the option to raise a request to waive the requirement for facial recognition. The form is attached for info. They said it takes 2 - 3 days to take effect. 
 

For reference, none of my ‘home’ bank branches are located at Siam Paragon. So it works across branches and one should be able to go to any branch to get it done. Well, in theory at least. All staff across the four banks at Siam Paragon were very knowledgeable about the process, as would be expected for a place with extensive foreigner traffic. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, aublumberg said:

Went to Siam Paragon in Bangkok to cover all my banks in one go wrt the 50k limit. Here’s a brief rundown of my experiences: 

 

1. Kasikorn Bank: Transfer limit was not enforced before going there. “We have no policy for non-Thai, no need to do facial scan, no limitations, no plans, not aware of any plans, no forms to sign, nothing.” Am able to change daily limits and transfer. Let’s see if it stays this way or if there is more to this story in future.

 

2. UOB: There was never a limit enforced, tried again just before visiting them. All working normally. They still took a photo of me and did the registration and said it will take 2 - 3 days to process. Let’s see what happens next.
 

3. Bangkok Bank: Transfer limit was enforced prior to going there. Registered, took a photo, and it worked right away. Able to raise daily limit, able to make larger than 50k transfer. Efficient staff, friendly service, five mins all done. Impressed.
 

4. SCB: Transfer limit was enforced prior to going there. For foreigners they provide no means to scan. Instead they offer the option to raise a request to waive the requirement for facial recognition. The form is attached for info. They said it takes 2 - 3 days to take effect. 
 

For reference, none of my ‘home’ bank branches are located at Siam Paragon. So it works across branches and one should be able to go to any branch to get it done. Well, in theory at least. All staff across the four banks at Siam Paragon were very knowledgeable about the process, as would be expected for a place with extensive foreigner traffic. 

 

Very interesting to read the SCB waiver request language in the attached document, wherein the farang is basically accepting responsibility for anything fraudulent that may occur with the banking app in the future.

 

Not sure agreeing to not hold the bank responsible for anything that might go wrong is such a great thing to do.

 

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Very interesting to read the SCB waiver request language in the attached document, wherein the farang is basically accepting responsibility for anything fraudulent that may occur with the banking app in the future.

 

Not sure agreeing to not hold the bank responsible for anything that might go wrong is such a great thing to do.

 

Indeed.... 

I spoke directly with SCB about this...

As foreign customers are unable register our NDID with SCB the responsibility for any fraudulent activity is now on the account holder. 

SCB is also ending SCBEasy (online banking on 14th). 

 

SCB's response - NDID is not available for foreigners (it is with other Banks).

They said I can make multiple <50,000 baht transfers each time you want to transfer a large amount !!!  

 

I told them I have the facial recognition already set up with Bangkok Bank - I'll close my SCB account and simply move everything across. 

 

Response.. OK sir, if you feel that way !!!....  (I hung up !!).

 

SCB are offering no protection for transfers of over 50,000 baht and no viable alternative. 

 

 

[DrJoy]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

SCB are offering no protection for transfers of over 50,000 baht and no viable alternative. 

 

My SCB account was hacked once in 2018 for 5000 thb, eventually after fighting with them for months I got my money back.

I wont be signing any waivers or indemnity, better close the account

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

SCB are offering no protection for transfers of over 50,000 baht and no viable alternative. 

A bit strange how SCB seems be saying they CAN'T do the facial recognition registration for foreigners, but other Thai banking companies seem perfectly capable to do so...

 

Kinda makes one wonder what's going on with that.

 

from @aublumberg 's post above, the different Thai banking companies seem to be all over the map on this one.

 

 

 

[aublumberg]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Not sure agreeing to not hold the bank responsible for anything that might go wrong is such a great thing to do.

Totally. Part of my considerations who will get my banking and investment business going forward.
 

I expect further developments from most banks on this topic over the coming 6 - 12 months. This is not the end of it yet. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

26 minutes ago, aublumberg said:

Totally. Part of my considerations who will get my banking and investment business going forward.
 

I expect further developments from most banks on this topic over the coming 6 - 12 months. This is not the end of it yet. 

The consistency of their inconsistency is incontrovertibly Thai.... ????

 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

SCB are offering no protection for transfers of over 50,000 baht and no viable alternative. 

A bit strange how SCB seems be saying they CAN'T do the facial recognition registration for foreigners, but other Thai banking companies seem perfectly capable to do so...

 

Kinda makes one wonder what's going on with that.

 

from @aublumberg 's post above, the different Thai banking companies seem to be all over the map on this one.

 

I suspect it's more of an issue with 'cannot' simply because that wasn't thought about by SCB 'higher-ups'... 

 

Meanwhile Banks such as Bangkok bank simply also set up a system whereby the Account can be verified with our Passport when going in for the Facial recognition process. 

 

SCB tried to be cute and use the 'Chip & Dip' method whereby Facial recognition was tied in directly the Chip info on Thai's ID cards without any thought to setting up a 'manually input system' to add facial ID to a passport number or other forms of ID. 

 

Simply unintelligent, short sighted and ultimately someone just didn't think it worth bothering with to push this (i.e. SCB Management). 

 

Would SCB care if it lost all of its foreign custom ?

 

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Would SCB care if it lost all of its foreign custom ?

 

 

By virtue of their recent decision to shut down/cease their online  (web) banking presence, I think we'd have to assume the answer to your question above is NO! (at least in terms of regular farang retail banking customers).

 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

This just received from SCB:

[JimGant]

19 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

A bit strange how SCB seems be saying they CAN'T do the facial recognition registration for foreigners

Maybe that's only for foreigners with round eyes.....

[SuperSaiyan]

On 5/26/2023 at 11:15 AM, JackGats said:

I guess they want a mug shot of people who shift money around. It's not just about verification and safety. Anyway, one more safety layer doesn't bother me, provided of course the system doesn't malfunction.

 

By the way, why don't EU banks use fingerprints and face recognition instead of TANs and PHOTO-TANs with which so many things can go wrong and lock you out of your account for weeks? Probably because of crappy data protection laws. Data protection laws protect nothing at all, they just f..k up people's lives.

 

It <deleted> up people's lives, so you want more rules instead. ????