Cannabis addiction -- let's discuss

[scottiejohn]

12 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

There's no such thing as addiction to weed. You can become dependent,

And the kids then say Wow! lets go try the stronger stuff to which they do become addicted!

[Jingthing]

15 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

There's no such thing as addiction to weed. You can become dependent, but this is something completely different. Your body can become dependent on a plethora of natural substances. A cannabis dependent person, is not an addict:

https://www.nhsinform.scot/healthy-living/drugs-and-drug-use/common-drugs/cannabis

 

https://www.turnbridge.com/news-events/latest-articles/addiction-vs-dependence/

 

Looking over your posts here, you seem to worry so much about the method of delivery, frequency of use and potential effects that it doesn't seem possible for you to enjoy a hit. Weed is supposed to be relaxing.

 

Vaping is the least effective method of imbibing, and actually causes more irritation to lungs than smoke. Vaping seems to be popular with kids, but can be a great idea for those who want to quit smoking. If you care for your health, and prefer to experience a potent, natural high, I'd stop vaping.

 

People shouldn't compare alcohol and weed. One is a naturally growing plant, the other is a fermentation process of various grains, fruits or vegetables. One causes addictions and kills millions of people per year, the other one doesn't.

 

Just my 2 cents.

Your point about vaping in dry herb vapes not worth 2 cents. 

It is definitely healthier than smoking.

Your dime store pop psychology unsolicited personal commentary that I am incapable of enjoying weed worth even less.

Cheers.

[jvs]

57 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

And the kids then say Wow! lets go try the stronger stuff to which they do become addicted!

Really?Another very old debunked believe that is still doing the rounds i see.

No,no and no!

 

[KhunLA]

On 6/17/2023 at 1:02 PM, Jingthing said:

No reefer madness here.

Nor misinformation.

People using cannabis for medical reasons may wish to say whether they are taking CBD or not.

 

Is marijuana addictive? | National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) (nih.gov)

 

 

Wow, a new definition for 'disorder' possibly like addition.

 

That's embarrassing, almost like a credible health organization, wanting to create something that doesn't exist ... so they can treat it ... $$$$

 

"Marijuana use can lead to the development of problem use, known as a marijuana use disorder, which takes the form of addiction in severe cases. Recent data suggest that 30% of those who use marijuana may have some degree of marijuana use disorder.18 People who begin using marijuana before the age of 18 are four to seven times more likely to develop a marijuana use disorder than adults"

 

That's the most ridiculous thing I've read in a long time, trying to sound very 'medical'

 

I can't stop taking photos ... I'm going to start rehab next week.

 

On Topic ... I got a sh!tload here, and I don't even bother smoking it.  Maybe once a month.

 

About the same 'addition' I've had for the past 40+ yrs.

 

Days past, I'd smoke 3-10 joints a day.  Stop for 30 days, no withdrawal symptoms at all, and apply for the job that required a piss test.

[scottiejohn]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Wow, a new definition for 'disorder' possibly like addition.

 

That's embarrassing, almost like a credible health organization, wanting to create something that doesn't exist ... so they can treat it ... $$$$

 

"Marijuana use can lead to the development of problem use, known as a marijuana use disorder, which takes the form of addiction in severe cases. Recent data suggest that 30% of those who use marijuana may have some degree of marijuana use disorder.18 People who begin using marijuana before the age of 18 are four to seven times more likely to develop a marijuana use disorder than adults"

 

That's the most ridiculous thing I've read in a long time, trying to sound very 'medical'

 

I can't stop taking photos ... I'm going to start rehab next.

 

On Topic ... I got a sh!tload here, and I don't even bother smoking it.  Maybe once a month.

 

About the same 'addition' I've had for the past 40+ yrs.

Most of the lines above "no pun intended" make no sense!

How about reposting the above, after you have been off whatever it is for a while,  in such a way that it makes sense to those of us on here who do not use the cr@p you seem to be wittering on about!

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, scottiejohn said:

And the kids then say Wow! lets go try the stronger stuff to which they do become addicted!

Everyone I know that did have a drug problem, started with alcohol.  And non, had a ganga drug problem.   

 

Usually meth/crack were the problem drugs, after alcohol, dulled their intellectual thinking enough for them to try those.  Poor decisions when drunk ... then hooked.   But not on ganga.

 

Matter fact, most drug addict avoid ganga, as brings them down off their drug of choice.

 

Again .... experience wins over BS.

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Wow, a new definition for 'disorder' possibly like addition.

 

That's embarrassing, almost like a credible health organization, wanting to create something that doesn't exist ... so they can treat it ... $$$$

 

"Marijuana use can lead to the development of problem use, known as a marijuana use disorder, which takes the form of addiction in severe cases. Recent data suggest that 30% of those who use marijuana may have some degree of marijuana use disorder.18 People who begin using marijuana before the age of 18 are four to seven times more likely to develop a marijuana use disorder than adults"

 

That's the most ridiculous thing I've read in a long time, trying to sound very 'medical'

 

I can't stop taking photos ... I'm going to start rehab next week.

 

On Topic ... I got a sh!tload here, and I don't even bother smoking it.  Maybe once a month.

 

About the same 'addition' I've had for the past 40+ yrs.

 

Days past, I'd smoke 3-10 joints a day.  Stop for 30 days, no withdrawal symptoms at all, and apply for the job that required a piss test.

So you're not dependent or addicted or whatever. Big whoop. Do you think you represent all human experience with weed?

 

 

[KhunLA]

Just now, Jingthing said:

So you're not dependent or addicted or whatever. Big whoop. Do you think you represent all human experience with weed?

 

 

Every one that indulged that I know, and that's a lot of people.

 

Compare those to the drunks & dopers I knew, sadly to many of those, and it's pretty obvious which stimulant is addictive.

[Brickleberry]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Your point about vaping in dry herb vapes not worth 2 cents. 

It is definitely healthier than smoking.

Your dime store pop psychology unsolicited personal commentary that I am incapable of enjoying weed worth even less.

Cheers.

This is from an impartial source, it's well worth a read.

 

https://weedmaps.com/learn/products-and-how-to-consume/vaping-vs-smoking-weed

[save the frogs]

This is from the CDC:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/marijuana/health-effects/addiction.html#:~:text=Another study estimated that people,10% likelihood of becoming addicted.&text=The risk of developing marijuana,who use marijuana more frequently.

 

• One study estimated that approximately 3 in 10 people who use marijuana have marijuana use disorder.¹
• Another study estimated that people who use cannabis have about a 10% likelihood of becoming addicted.²
• The risk of developing marijuana use disorder is greater in people who start using marijuana during youth or adolescence and who use marijuana more frequently.³

The following are signs of marijuana use disorder ⁴:

• Using more marijuana than intended
• Trying but failing to quit using marijuana
• Spending a lot of time using marijuana
• Craving marijuana
• Using marijuana even though it causes problems at home, school, or work
• Continuing to use marijuana despite social or relationship problems.
• Giving up important activities with friends and family in favor of using marijuana.
• Using marijuana in high-risk situations, such as while driving a car.
• Continuing to use marijuana despite physical or psychological problems.
• Needing to use more marijuana to get the same high.
• Experiencing withdrawal symptoms when stopping marijuana use.

People who have marijuana use disorder may also be at a higher risk of other negative consequences, such as problems with attention, memory, and learning.

Some people who have marijuana use disorder may need to use more and more marijuana or greater concentrations of marijuana over time to experience a “high.” The greater the amount of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) in marijuana (in other words, the concentration or strength), the stronger the effects the marijuana may have on the brain.^5,6 The amount of THC in marijuana has increased over the past few decades.⁶

In a study of cannabis research samples over time, the average delta-9 THC (the main form of THC in the cannabis plant) concentration almost doubled, from 9% in 2008 to 17% in 2017.⁷ Products from dispensaries often offer much higher concentrations than seen in this study. In a study of products available in online dispensaries in 3 states with legal non-medical adult marijuana use, the average THC concentration was 22%, with a range of 0% to 45%.⁸ In addition, some methods of using marijuana (for example, dabbing and vaping concentrates) may deliver very high levels of THC to the user.^6,9

Researchers do not yet know the full extent of the consequences when the body and brain are exposed to high concentrations of THC or how recent increases in concentrations affect the risk of someone developing marijuana use disorder.⁶

 

 

[stoner]

24 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

This is from the CDC:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/marijuana/health-effects/addiction.html#:~:text=Another study estimated that people,10% likelihood of becoming addicted.&text=The risk of developing marijuana,who use marijuana more frequently.

 

• One study estimated that approximately 3 in 10 people who use marijuana have marijuana use disorder.¹
• Another study estimated that people who use cannabis have about a 10% likelihood of becoming addicted.²
• The risk of developing marijuana use disorder is greater in people who start using marijuana during youth or adolescence and who use marijuana more frequently.³

The following are signs of marijuana use disorder ⁴:

• Using more marijuana than intended
• Trying but failing to quit using marijuana
• Spending a lot of time using marijuana
• Craving marijuana
• Using marijuana even though it causes problems at home, school, or work
• Continuing to use marijuana despite social or relationship problems.
• Giving up important activities with friends and family in favor of using marijuana.
• Using marijuana in high-risk situations, such as while driving a car.
• Continuing to use marijuana despite physical or psychological problems.
• Needing to use more marijuana to get the same high.
• Experiencing withdrawal symptoms when stopping marijuana use.

People who have marijuana use disorder may also be at a higher risk of other negative consequences, such as problems with attention, memory, and learning.

Some people who have marijuana use disorder may need to use more and more marijuana or greater concentrations of marijuana over time to experience a “high.” The greater the amount of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) in marijuana (in other words, the concentration or strength), the stronger the effects the marijuana may have on the brain.^5,6 The amount of THC in marijuana has increased over the past few decades.⁶

In a study of cannabis research samples over time, the average delta-9 THC (the main form of THC in the cannabis plant) concentration almost doubled, from 9% in 2008 to 17% in 2017.⁷ Products from dispensaries often offer much higher concentrations than seen in this study. In a study of products available in online dispensaries in 3 states with legal non-medical adult marijuana use, the average THC concentration was 22%, with a range of 0% to 45%.⁸ In addition, some methods of using marijuana (for example, dabbing and vaping concentrates) may deliver very high levels of THC to the user.^6,9

Researchers do not yet know the full extent of the consequences when the body and brain are exposed to high concentrations of THC or how recent increases in concentrations affect the risk of someone developing marijuana use disorder.⁶

 

 

reading this gave me shaky leg syndrome. 

[save the frogs]

5 minutes ago, stoner said:

reading this gave me shaky leg syndrome. 

not sure what you mean.

 

3 in 10 sounds about right to me ... doesn't seem like they're being sensationalist. 

 

 

[KhunLA]

30 minutes ago, stoner said:

reading this gave me shaky leg syndrome. 

 

30 minutes ago, stoner said:

reading this gave me shaky leg syndrome. 

I'll add that to the list of things that have come out from the CDC the past few years, that took away any small credibility they might have had.

 

If people only knew how silly they sounded when saying ganga is addictive ????

[save the frogs]

Seth Rogan smokes weed all day, every single day. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, Brickleberry said:

This is from an impartial source, it's well worth a read.

 

https://weedmaps.com/learn/products-and-how-to-consume/vaping-vs-smoking-weed

Duh!

That's the point. 

Dry herb vaping is definitely healthier than smoking on the lungs!

Vaping liquids different.

I've never talked about any kind of weed vaping other than DRY HERB.

 

 

[Brickleberry]

13 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Duh!

That's the point. 

Dry herb vaping is definitely healthier than smoking on the lungs!

Vaping liquids different.

I've never talked about any kind of weed vaping other than DRY HERB.

 

 

Sorry, I've never heard of dry herb vaping before.

Everyday is a school-day!

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

Sorry, I've never heard of dry herb vaping before.

Everyday is a school-day!

OK.

So your comments before where you incorrectly asserted that vaping weed was more harmful than smoking weed were based on a misunderstanding and lack of awareness of DRY HERB VAPING.

[EVENKEEL]

I don't smoke with others so I only have myself as reference. I only smoke a few hits for a mellow feeling, not a blitz feeling. It's the same as the beliefs on drinking beer. Some believe if you say you're a drinker then you overdue it. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I enjoy icey cold beers daily 3-4 small ones, together with a few hits and a cigar is heaven for me. I also use the weed as a sleeping aid which if I gave up would give me some sleepless nights.

 

There are no physical withdrawal symptoms but anything that is a daily routine would be missed for a few days.

[2baht]

Of course it's not addictive! I know! I've smoked it every day for 30 years.

[Jingthing]

22 minutes ago, 2baht said:

Of course it's not addictive! I know! I've smoked it every day for 30 years.

I think people are getting overly hung up on the specific terms. Addiction. Dependency. That syndrome thing mentioned before. They are all similar enough.

 

The psychological vs  physical part is in my opinion more important.

 

Again in my opinion with weed the psychological part dominates.

 

Unlike harder physically addictive substances like nicotine, alcohol, speed, heroin etc.

 

From a personal anecdotal POV I consider myself an addictive personality. But I only get "addicted" to some things thankfully.

Some addictions are deadly, some are not great but relatively mild, and some are arguably downright wonderful. 

 

My most dominant lifetime addiction is to coffee. It is definitely a physical addiction and there are definite very unpleasant long term withdrawal symptoms. 

 

I see no good reason to quit.

 

I was a very habitual daily weed user (bong) in my adolescence for about 4 ir 5 years. But I still got good grades. I think it was psychological addiction. One day I decided it wasn't fun any more as it made me paranoid and I quit cold turkey.

Physical withdrawal was hardly noticeable. Nothing compared to the times I foolishly quit coffee.

 

Taking up the new weed world decades later with the fancy strains and dry herb vaping I haven't felt paranoid at all. I also see no point in getting high every day.

 

A person's reaction to weed and other substances are highly individual. 

[bamnutsak]

16 hours ago, save the frogs said:

The following are signs of marijuana use disorder

Given the resulting acronym I though this was a joke. Is it?

 

 

Are there any terms for reasonable cannabis use? Any studies? Any signs we should look for?

 

 

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

Given the resulting acronym I though this was a joke. Is it?

 

 

Are there any terms for reasonable cannabis use? Any studies? Any signs we should look for?

 

 

I assume you're being sarcastic.

[ChaiyaTH]

I smoke since 15 years for most years almost daily, in the times i visit a country or place i cant smoke a few days or even a few weeks, there are certainly withdrawal symptoms.

 

Starts with irritable, then not sleeping good a few days, intense dreams or nightmares, sweat that smells like weed and sweaty hands, not hungry first 1-2 days. After that its all good, but to say no withdrawal symptoms is nonsense.

 

I smoke like half a gram daily. I am dependent, not addicted, the alternative for me is ritalin. Im busy in the head too much otherwise.

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

I smoke since 15 years for most years almost daily, in the times i visit a country or place i cant smoke a few days or even a few weeks, there are certainly withdrawal symptoms.

 

Starts with irritable, then not sleeping good a few days, intense dreams or nightmares, sweat that smells like weed and sweaty hands, not hungry first 1-2 days. After that its all good, but to say no withdrawal symptoms is nonsense.

 

I smoke like half a gram daily. I am dependent, not addicted, the alternative for me is ritalin. Im busy in the head too much otherwise.

That's interesting.

Thanks.

You sound addicted to me.

My anecdotal report of barely noticeable physical withdrawal symptoms was based on old style weak assed ganja.

[bamnutsak]

25 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I assume you're being sarcastic.

You would be wrong.

 

Surely there must be studies which delineate cannabis use on a scale from reasonable use through to addiction, and use disorders which result in schizophrenia and paranoia.

 

Nearly every study here, nay every anti-cannabis post, harps on the few who have problems. Understanding what constitutes safe, reasonable use would help us all.

 

I don't even think anyone has defined "cannabis addiction" here, yet?

 

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You sound addicted to me.

It's this kind of off-the-cuff diagnosis - I assume you are not qualified to judge if someone is addicted, especially if you're never met them - that does more harm than good. How does an addicted person "sound"? And it's an insult which is probably against the forum rules?

 

 

 

[jvs]

9 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

You would be wrong.

 

Surely there must be studies which delineate cannabis use on a scale from reasonable use through to addiction, and use disorders which result in schizophrenia and paranoia.

 

Nearly every study here, nay every anti-cannabis post, harps on the few who have problems. Understanding what constitutes safe, reasonable use would help us all.

 

I don't even think anyone has defined "cannabis addiction" here, yet?

 

It's this kind of off-the-cuff diagnosis - I assume you are not qualified to judge if someone is addicted, especially if you're never met them - that does more harm than good. How does an addicted person "sound"? And it's an insult which is probably against the forum rules?

 

 

 

There is the line between use and abuse the same goes for any drug use.

Too much coffee will give you negative effects and there are also

withdrawal symptoms if you stop drinking coffee.

It is up to each individual how to use or abuse drugs.

 

[Jingthing]

25 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

You would be wrong.

 

Surely there must be studies which delineate cannabis use on a scale from reasonable use through to addiction, and use disorders which result in schizophrenia and paranoia.

 

Nearly every study here, nay every anti-cannabis post, harps on the few who have problems. Understanding what constitutes safe, reasonable use would help us all.

 

I don't even think anyone has defined "cannabis addiction" here, yet?

 

It's this kind of off-the-cuff diagnosis - I assume you are not qualified to judge if someone is addicted, especially if you're never met them - that does more harm than good. How does an addicted person "sound"? And it's an insult which is probably against the forum rules?

 

 

 

It was my reasoned personal impression based on his description of somewhat severe physical withdrawal symptoms. I think we're allowed to voice our opinions

 

 

I am not anti weed.

I love modern weed.

But I do support efforts to suppress youths using it as I'm convinced its not good for developing brains. 

 

You are free to use the report button. Knock yourself out dude.

[bamnutsak]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It was my objective impression based on his description of somewhat severe physical withdrawal symptoms. 

Yeah, but you do not know anything about that person's medical history, their psychological history. Labeling them as an addict does more harm than good.

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, jvs said:

Too much coffee will give you negative effects and there are also

withdrawal symptoms if you stop drinking coffee.

Yes, but is it addictive?

 

Is caffeine addictive?

Many people develop a tolerance for caffeine. This means that your body adjusts and gets used to having caffeine every day. Over time, you might find that you must keep increasing your caffeine intake to achieve the desired effects of alertness and ability to concentrate.

 

Your body can have a dependence on caffeine, but it’s not technically an addiction. It raises dopamine, but the level is small. Illegal stimulants like methamphetamine (“meth”) and MDMA (“ecstasy” or “molly”) cause a huge surge that messes with the reward circuits in your brain. You get “addicted” to ecstasy, and “dependent” on caffeine.

 

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/15496-caffeine-how-to-hack-it-and-how-to-quit-it

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, jvs said:

It is up to each individual how to use or abuse drugs.

 

Bingo. Exactly my point. So we need to understand what constitutes reasonable use, and what are the line(s) between (reasonable) use and abuse.

 

Hence my questions...

 

1 hour ago, bamnutsak said:

Are there any terms for reasonable cannabis use? Any studies? Any signs we should look for?

 

[jvs]

2 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

Bingo. Exactly my point. So we need to understand what constitutes reasonable use, and what are the line(s) between (reasonable) use and abuse.

Yes you are right but like i said before it is a very individual process.

You learn what your limits are and you go from there,use or abuse.

 

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

Yeah, but you do not know anything about that person's medical history, their psychological history. Labeling them as an addict does more harm than good.

 

 

 

Yes, but is it addictive?

 

Is caffeine addictive?

Many people develop a tolerance for caffeine. This means that your body adjusts and gets used to having caffeine every day. Over time, you might find that you must keep increasing your caffeine intake to achieve the desired effects of alertness and ability to concentrate.

 

Your body can have a dependence on caffeine, but it’s not technically an addiction. It raises dopamine, but the level is small. Illegal stimulants like methamphetamine (“meth”) and MDMA (“ecstasy” or “molly”) cause a huge surge that messes with the reward circuits in your brain. You get “addicted” to ecstasy, and “dependent” on caffeine.

 

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/15496-caffeine-how-to-hack-it-and-how-to-quit-it

 

 

 

Bingo. Exactly my point. So we need to understand what constitutes reasonable use, and what are the line(s) between (reasonable) use and abuse.

 

Hence my questions...

 

 

Yes, coffee is DEFINITELY addictive. FACT.

8 Signs You’re Addicted to Coffee - Coffee Informer

 

I think you see the word "addiction" as stigmatizing. 

I do not. 

It depends on the substance.

The majority of western adults are addicted to caffeine. 

Should they all be stigmatized?