Thai will for foreigner

[Duke007]

 

 I have a Will, typed,signed and witnessed by 2 Thai friends. I have previously read that this format is one of several legally acceptable formats. A lawyer this week told me this would not be acceptable in a thai court because it must be on the stationary of a lawyer to be accepted. Can anyone clarify the legality of a personally typed will kept in my home?

[flyingtlger]

Always go through a reputable local Thai lawyer that specializes in wills.

The money will be worth it and you'll have peace of mind.

[scubascuba3]

Why risk it, for about 5k it's worry free, some also include a video also to avoid any legal issues

[Tom H]

I never heard this requirement.

What happens when the lawyer quits his job i.e.

There is an amphor which could be used as an option in case it is required. Free of charge:).

 

Concerning the issue with the witnesses an additional question:

What happens when a witness dies before?

 

 

[Kwasaki]

My wife had my hand written will witnessed by 2 persons, translated and OK'ed by the province gov office.

 

As insurance I have made it possible for her to withdraw all my Visa extension money if I suddenly peg it.

[itsallmine68]

4 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

My wife had my hand written will witnessed by 2 persons, translated and OK'ed by the province gov office.

 

As insurance I have made it possible for her to withdraw all my Visa extension money if I suddenly peg it.

She, herself will not be allowed to withdraw visa money 400,000 baht or 800,000 baht (retirement visa) She will have to approach teh courts and have the Will verified then approach the Bank(s) I was told by a Lawyer that this process can take months to complete

[scorecard]

1 minute ago, itsallmine68 said:

She, herself will not be allowed to withdraw visa money 400,000 baht or 800,000 baht (retirement visa) She will have to approach teh courts and have the Will verified then approach the Bank(s) I was told by a Lawyer that this process can take months to complete

Depends on the bank. Some insist on the issue of a document from the appropriate court before the bank account can be accessed.

 

Other banks allow withdrawals from joint accounts.

I asked the assistant manager at my bank (major bank, big branch) about this.

 

His response was 'Your account is joint with a family member and set up 'either account holder can sign' meaning that only one signature is needed.

 

When a transaction happens the 'state' of the second person is not explored and is not relevant'. 

[keithcresswell]

I have read on some Thai lawyer's websites that Holographic wills are legal in Thailand. But naturally they don't recommend them. In this case lawyer's stationary is not required and the will must be completely written by hand.

[CMBob]

Thai law regarding Last Wills and Testaments is governed by Sections 1655-1710 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand.  You can google and read the code provisions for yourself.  Basically, as long as it's dated and signed by the testator in the presence of two witnesses who then and there sign to certify the testator's signature, it's legal. 

And, yes, holographic Wills are allowed (Section 1657) although in my opinion, presuming you have anything of value to leave somebody, it's likely wiser to have a lawyer do it to make sure you've covered all the bases.

Edited June 29, 2023 by CMBob

[DFPhuket]

I have a good friend who is a Thai lawyer and just this week I asked him to review the Thai will I had made about 10 years ago by a different lawyer. 

 

One of the things he mentioned regarding my old one was: "It should be notarized in the correct way.. It is wrong to only put the notarized stamps without the notarial attorney's signature and notarization statement."

 

I do think it's worth spending the money on lawyer fees now to make 100% sure that the will is proper and legal. Otherwise upon your death there will be larger lawyer fees paid by your estate to straighten it out. 

[CMBob]

1 minute ago, DFPhuket said:

I have a good friend who is a Thai lawyer and just this week I asked him to review the Thai will I had made about 10 years ago by a different lawyer. 

 

One of the things he mentioned regarding my old one was: "It should be notarized in the correct way.. It is wrong to only put the notarized stamps without the notarial attorney's signature and notarization statement."

 

I do think it's worth spending the money on lawyer fees now to make 100% sure that the will is proper and legal. Otherwise upon your death there will be larger lawyer fees paid by your estate to straighten it out. 

Agree generally with your advice but, while it won't hurt, there is nothing in the Thai code that even suggests a Will has to be notarized.

[treetops]

58 minutes ago, DFPhuket said:

I do think it's worth spending the money on lawyer fees now to make 100% sure that the will is proper and legal.

Bur you just wrote that your will was done by a lawyer and was incorrectly done, so maybe not foolproof advice?

Edited June 29, 2023 by treetops

[LukKrueng]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Depends on the bank. Some insist on the issue of a document from the appropriate court before the bank account can be accessed.

 

Other banks allow withdrawals from joint accounts.

I asked the assistant manager at my bank (major bank, big branch) about this.

 

His response was 'Your account is joint with a family member and set up 'either account holder can sign' meaning that only one signature is needed.

 

When a transaction happens the 'state' of the second person is not explored and is not relevant'. 

AFAIK "visa" bank accounts must be personal and not joint accounts, so what you wrote is irrelevant. A personal account must not be touched without a court order once the owner dies. A person with access to the account might be able to withdraw money BEFORE the bank is notified of the owner's death, but it is no legal and the person who withdrew the money will be in trouble once the bank realises what happened.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, itsallmine68 said:

She, herself will not be allowed to withdraw visa money 400,000 baht or 800,000 baht (retirement visa) She will have to approach teh courts and have the Will verified then approach the Bank(s) I was told by a Lawyer that this process can take months to complete

Well I'm not surprised a Thai lawyer would state the law but TIT mush the province district office said she can because the bank doesn't have to be notified of my demise and that's why my money is in a ATM account.

[khunPer]

16 hours ago, Duke007 said:

Can anyone clarify the legality of a personally typed will kept in my home?

According to the lawyers that wrote the book "Thai Law for Foreigners", your last will is fully legally valid.

[Surasak]

12 hours ago, Tom H said:

I never heard this requirement.

What happens when the lawyer quits his job i.e.

There is an amphor which could be used as an option in case it is required. Free of charge:).

 

Concerning the issue with the witnesses an additional question:

What happens when a witness dies before?

 

 

There is no issue with a deceased witness. The Will was witnessed and accepted at the time of signing, Just the same as if said witness leaves the country and cannot be traced.

There is no law which states a will must be written on a lawyers official paper, or at least not in Thailand. The Will can be written on the back of a fag packet, its the testators signature and those of the witnesses which is most important. The witnesses are signing as to the mental capacity of the testator as well as his signature. 

[Surasak]

16 hours ago, flyingtlger said:

Always go through a reputable local Thai lawyer that specializes in wills.

The money will be worth it and you'll have peace of mind.

I used a lawyer to write a Will for me sum years ago, giving all the necessary details of what I wanted. He told me it would take at least a week for him to complete.

When I went back to sign I was almost on the point of rearranging his face, but held back.

He had changed many of the details and made himself the beneficiary, hiding that quite cleverly, possibly hoping I wouldn't notice?  I tore up the Will into little pieces and threw it into the air and walked out. There was no protest.  

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, LukKrueng said:

AFAIK "visa" bank accounts must be personal and not joint accounts, so what you wrote is irrelevant. A personal account must not be touched without a court order once the owner dies. A person with access to the account might be able to withdraw money BEFORE the bank is notified of the owner's death, but it is no legal and the person who withdrew the money will be in trouble once the bank realises what happened.

I have joint savings account with my Thai adult son at K Bank and at BBL, they all have the VISA logo on the ATM/DEBIT plastic card. 

 

They are all listed on my will with photos of the cards all showing the VISA logo. All prepared by a famour hghly credible lawyer and  2 of his senior staff.

[Kwasaki]

2 minutes ago, Surasak said:

I used a lawyer to write a Will for me sum years ago, giving all the necessary details of what I wanted. He told me it would take at least a week for him to complete.

When I went back to sign I was almost on the point of rearranging his face, but held back.

He had changed many of the details and made himself the beneficiary, hiding that quite cleverly, possibly hoping I wouldn't notice?  I tore up the Will into little pieces and threw it into the air and walked out. There was no protest.  

Yeah just arrange who you want to  have your money no problem.

Falangies who put everything they can into the ownership of their name are the ones who need lawyers.

But a honest one. ????

[Kwasaki]

8 minutes ago, scorecard said:

I have joint savings account with my Thai adult son at K Bank and at BBL, they all have the VISA logo on the ATM/DEBIT plastic card. 

 

They are all listed on my will with photos of the cards all showing the VISA logo. All prepared by a famour hghly credible lawyer and  2 of his senior staff.

The bank are not notified of your demise,so when it happens your family can still draw the money anyway.

[jcmj]

If you can’t afford to pay a lawyer 6,000 baht to do a proper Will for you, and you have property or a personal savings account, it will be in probate for at least 6 months and up to 2 years. This is from personal experience with a friend who passed away. The executor was no longer living in Thailand so we had to track him down and he signed that over to my friend. He had an old Will and had just written his new Will to be done by a lawyer, but passed away before he got it completed. They would only recognize his old Will, done some 15 years ago. His ex was in the old Will along with other friends that were long gone from his life. He also bought a couple condos and a car since, and he clearly stated in his new handwritten Will who gets what. Didn’t matter. The ex, and old friends got it all. It was a 2 year nightmare, and the lawyers fees to get everything sorted were insane. So do the Will as you wish, if you’re not concerned about the hell it could cause. Also more importantly, make sure you have it updated and given to your trusted friends and family. Otherwise the New handwritten Will may disappear if your family or ex has the original one, and may not be so happy with the new one. Just my opinion. 

[scorecard]

Myself, Thai son and son's Thai wife all have wills, all written/prepared by a very cedible experienced lawyer.

 

None are on any letter head. 

[newbee2022]

the lawyer is wrong. You can do it you described, put it in an envelope and deposit it at the city hall. Doesn't cost anything.

[Raybangkok]

I was informed that the will should be in English and Thai. If there is any problem the English section is to be followed. This is the will form that has been recommended and my Lawer a family friend says it is suitable,

 

LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT OF.docx

Edited June 29, 2023 by Raybangkok
personal info

[hotandsticky]

6 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

the lawyer is wrong. You can do it you described, put it in an envelope and deposit it at the city hall. Doesn't cost anything.

As long as you don’t mind it being in Thai.

 

Fluent in Thai script are you…….if not, you will have no idea what it says. Not necessarily an issue, just flagging it.

[hotandsticky]

19 minutes ago, Raybangkok said:

I was informed that the will should be in English and Thai. If there is any problem the English section is to be followed. This is the will form that has been recommended and my Lawer a family friend says it is suitable,

 

LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT OF.docx 21.46 kB · 1 download

Seriously?

 

You think in Thailand an English worded version of a Will would prevail. Good luck getting Probate with that Nang Rong or Kanthalarak.

 

The English version is solely for the Farangs information and to allow translation into a Thai Will.

[LukKrueng]

14 hours ago, scorecard said:

I have joint savings account with my Thai adult son at K Bank and at BBL, they all have the VISA logo on the ATM/DEBIT plastic card. 

 

They are all listed on my will with photos of the cards all showing the VISA logo. All prepared by a famour hghly credible lawyer and  2 of his senior staff.

By "visa" accounts I meant the account with the 400k or 800k you use to extend your permit of stay, not visa as in the visa credit\debit cards

[Mike Teavee]

14 hours ago, scorecard said:

I have joint savings account with my Thai adult son at K Bank and at BBL, they all have the VISA logo on the ATM/DEBIT plastic card. 

 

They are all listed on my will with photos of the cards all showing the VISA logo. All prepared by a famour hghly credible lawyer and  2 of his senior staff.

I'm pretty sure that by "Visa Account" he meant the money in the bank to support his Extension (to his permission to stay in Thailand, not the one he's added to his house)

 

As an aside I have heard that some banks will allow your partner to be a "Silent" Joint Account holder on your "Extension" account, their name does not appear in the paperwork for Immigration but they are added to the account as a signatory so can withdraw money.

[JimGant]

19 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

the province district office said she can because the bank doesn't have to be notified of my demise

That's key, because a bank has no legal obligation to freeze your account, if it doesn't know you're dead. And, unless you die in the bank lobby, how would they know you're dead? So, make your wife a co-signatory on your solely owned bank account, so she can waltz into the bank before you're cold and, with your passbook -- which has her signature only visible with black light -- withdraw most of the funds (she can't close the account).

 

Better yet, make sure your accounts are all online types, so the wife can log into your account and transfer the money. No co-signatory requirement here -- functionally speaking.

 

So, my wife, as sole beneficiary and executor of my Will, has instructions to empty my account soonest. No other potential beneficiaries out there that might complain. No debt. Bank doesn't know I'm dead. Thus, no aggrieved parties to file a lawsuit. Fait accompli in its finest form.

 

But, until Thailand gets Pay on Death (POD) type beneficiaries for financial accounts, we're stuck with having to improvise. And saving 50,000 baht in probate fees, and putting a dent in some slimy lawyer's car payment fund -- sounds good to me.

[Kwasaki]

22 minutes ago, JimGant said:

That's key, because a bank has no legal obligation to freeze your account, if it doesn't know you're dead. And, unless you die in the bank lobby, how would they know you're dead? So, make your wife a co-signatory on your solely owned bank account, so she can waltz into the bank before you're cold and, with your passbook -- which has her signature only visible with black light -- withdraw most of the funds (she can't close the account).

 

Better yet, make sure your accounts are all online types, so the wife can log into your account and transfer the money. No co-signatory requirement here -- functionally speaking.

 

So, my wife, as sole beneficiary and executor of my Will, has instructions to empty my account soonest. No other potential beneficiaries out there that might complain. No debt. Bank doesn't know I'm dead. Thus, no aggrieved parties to file a lawsuit. Fait accompli in its finest form.

 

But, until Thailand gets Pay on Death (POD) type beneficiaries for financial accounts, we're stuck with having to improvise. And saving 50,000 baht in probate fees, and putting a dent in some slimy lawyer's car payment fund -- sounds good to me.

Concur I changed my name only bank account required by immigration to an ATM card account and my wife knows where the card is and the pin number.

 

My other account is an ATM joint card account so again accessible.

 

All the bikes and the truck is in my wife's name.

 

She has my Will with her named of course as executor if ever asked for.