Don't bother to help anyone

[Furioso]

might be a good idea to engage with the person first "you seem to be struggling are you ok?" If they signal they're not ok then "I'm going to try to help you ok?" 

 

Around here it's an older crowd, and a lot are unhealthy people that are probably dealing with problems like this daily. They seem like they're on the verge of death but they can somehow manage.

[Sticky Rice Balls]

7 hours ago, watchcat said:

Get youself a wife or girlfriend and you could forget about Loi Kroh.

no money=no honey ????

[jaywalker2]

When someone is choking on food

The American Red Cross recommends the following steps:

• Give five back blows. Stand to the side and just behind a choking adult. For a child, kneel down behind. Place your arm across the person's chest to support the person's body. Bend the person over at the waist to face the ground. Strike five separate times between the person's shoulder blades with the heel of your hand.
• Give five abdominal thrusts. If back blows don't remove the stuck object, give five abdominal thrusts, also known as the Heimlich maneuver.
• Alternate between five blows and five thrusts until the blockage is dislodged.

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Bingo.. 

 

The Op (potentially) saved someones life and received a verbally abusive response. 

He's now getting an abusive response from some of the muppets on this forum.

 

Op...  You did the right thing...  I hope you let this one slide and continue to do the right thing in future. 

Y'never know, you could be saving the life of one of the miserable old farts on this thread who find reason to abuse you rather that offer commendation. 

 

My mother is still with us today because a few years back someone 'helped out' in a very similar situation.

I wouldn't look very kindly up myself or any person who knows how to help but chose not to for fear of receiving a negative response. 

 

Props to you for helping out. 

It could have been the fella was just coughing and all parties went straight to code red. I'll save you, too funny. Thanks for the mommy story though.

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

It could have been the fella was just coughing and all parties went straight to code red. I'll save you, too funny. Thanks for the mommy story though.

I'm assuming the Op is intelligent enough to know the difference between coughing and choking. 

 

We can understand someone such as yourself may not be able to distinguish the difference and thus judges others by your own limits. 

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, Ralf001 said:

No second base on the first date ?

I thought second base was getting slapped. 

[EVENKEEL]

31 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I'm assuming the Op is intelligent enough to know the difference between coughing and choking. 

 

We can understand someone such as yourself may not be able to distinguish the difference and thus judges others by your own limits. 

Oh, now we're assuming. This is the reason for the slapper giving the slappee some warning. Or, let the person choking know you're doing the Heimlich. 

[Ralf001]

33 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I thought second base was getting slapped. 

hahahahaha.

In this instance first base is getting slapped.

second base is verbal abuse !!

[xtrnuno41]

First reaction is you try to work it out yourself, you are in a (semi) panic situation.

Just had some months ago, first time ever a severe choking, fact is i was eating.

Well i live by myself and had some less severe "choking", all with the eating, though im not eating like an idiot, but sometimes somehow the food is not in right place and then Im the only there to overcome all. This thing developed in time and i try to eat now as easy as i can.

Your mind is set on getting air and make inhalation back to working again.

 

My wife was there, but I wouldnt have her slapping on my back. Of course she wanted and first did (however not so hard) but your mind is set on getting air and you are in a sort of panic situation, but also , at least me, try overcome the panic and you want to do yourself getting back. So somehow , I did.

So maybe thats a reason for that last severe one, i dint want my wife to slap me. You have experienced it before and want to get out the situation, yourself. You have done it in the past. Though the feeling, some months ago, was more worse.

Maybe the reason, why that guy was angry. Other people may have approved your help more easily. Maybe thats why you should ask first, you need help?

 

Some weeks ago, a guy had to place a quite big parcel in his car and had some weight. I offered him my help and he accepted, thats why i know is was quite heavy.

So we got it in and he THANKED (is already rare) me. So all good.

 

Yes, I understand your position, you never want to help anybody anymore.

And gratitude is not always to be found.

I do lots of things which are appreciated by people but NOT expressed by their thanks. Just a little thank you. It is like that, I just will do on and live with it. Sometimes I have your feelings and think why i do, but forget about it and do.

[swm59nj]

You did a noble thing. Don’t let their reaction deter you helping someone else.  
Very strange reaction from them if the guy was choking. 

[Gandtee]

On 7/8/2023 at 2:58 PM, scubascuba3 said:

banging on the bag is no use it just makes the person angry, you need to do the Heimlich maneuver 

No! You might be accused of sexual assault!????

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, Purdey said:

Ask for permission and he will say gasp, gasp, hurrr, herrrr.

IMO only if he's really obstructed. If it's just something gone down the wrong way he will make that plain, even if he can't speak properly.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, swm59nj said:

You did a noble thing. Don’t let their reaction deter you helping someone else.  
Very strange reaction from them if the guy was choking. 

IF being the relevant word. Sounds to me like he didn't need help, the GF over reacted and the OP made a wrong assumption. Of course I wasn't there, so I'll never know if I'm right or not.

[Tropposurfer]

On 7/8/2023 at 5:58 PM, scubascuba3 said:

banging on the bag is no use it just makes the person angry, you need to do the Heimlich manoeuvre 

This manoeuvre is banned in Australia and has been for many years (St. Johns ambulance staff, no para-medic, doctor, nurse or hospital staff use it anymore) because it risks breaking ribs and causing internal organ damage (especially if the person has some spinal damage or spinal abnormality you don't know about - spurs). 

 

The standard procedure for dislodging food in the oesophagus is a firm flat hand slap between the centre of the shoulder blades. Repeated numerous times if warranted.

 

As an added note:

Putting your fingers in a persons mouth to try to clear an obstruction can be very dangerous to you - especially if they are unconscious - reflex biting can be extremely strong!

 

It may be necessary especially if the person has vomited considerably ... ... Drowned people often have this symptom. Clearing the mouth and positioning the patient correctly in the 'rescue position' is then done quickly prior to, and sometimes during resuscitation if the patient begins to revive, cough and express material from the mouth.

 

Other posters have already said; No first aid should be offered or administered unless the proposed recipient (so long as they are conscious) agrees to your assistance BEFORE you touch them at all.

 

If the person is unconscious, you are trained, and are willing to take the responsibility of any impact your first-aid intervention may have then by all means assist the person.

But be warned if you hurt them or they die under your care you may be considered liable to some degree.

 

As we get older we produce less saliva. it's a a good idea to have some liquid when eating and take sips between mouthfuls to lubricate the mouth and throat.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Tropposurfer

[CecilM]

In the US you’ll get sued. Unless I live in a country where giving first aid is mandatory, hands off. Much less likely to get sued for doing nothing than for doing something. 

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I'm assuming the Op is intelligent enough to know the difference between coughing and choking. 

 

We can understand someone such as yourself may not be able to distinguish the difference and thus judges others by your own limits. 

I had a recent experience of something going down the wrong way and coughing fit to bust, but I wasn't obstructed. To an observer it might have looked like I was choking.

That's why we should always check by asking if they need help before doing anything physical to them.

[Skeptic7]

I agree. Look away, walk away. Pretend you're unaware. No good deed goes unpunished. People generally SUCK. 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, CecilM said:

In the US you’ll get sued. Unless I live in a country where giving first aid is mandatory, hands off. Much less likely to get sued for doing nothing than for doing something. 

I don't think you can get sued for not doing anything unless you are a trained first aider.

 

Had an incident long ago where I was driving somewhere with my partner and 2 nurses and came to an accident site where a m'bike rider had literally lost his head. My partner leaned out the window and yelled that she had 3 nurses with her to which we were all horrified. Luckily no one rushed up and asked us to save the biker!

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, Tropposurfer said:

This manoeuvre is banned in Australia and has been for many years (St. Johns ambulance staff, no para-medic, doctor, nurse or hospital staff use it anymore) because it risks breaking ribs and causing internal organ damage (especially of the person has some spinal damage or abnormality you don't know about). 

The standard procedure for dislodging food in the oesophagus is a firm flat hand slap between the centre of the shoulder blades.

What is the success rate vs the maneuver?

 

Have they also banned heart compressions because ribs can get broken doing that too?

I always understood that the trade off was that the casualty survived, as broken ribs can be treated, unlike death.

 

If it's become such a mine field of potential penalty for trying to save someone, perhaps we'd all be better off by not helping and just waiting for the ambulance to turn up.

[CecilM]

20 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't think you can get sued for not doing anything unless you are a trained first aider.

 

Had an incident long ago where I was driving somewhere with my partner and 2 nurses and came to an accident site where a m'bike rider had literally lost his head. My partner leaned out the window and yelled that she had 3 nurses with her to which we were all horrified. Luckily no one rushed up and asked us to save the biker!

There’s a German law about “neglect to help”; and first aid courses are mandatory for obtaining a driver’s licence. I still remember what our Professor told us: if you witness an accident it’s best to throw up or faint to claim being incapable to help.

I remember reading about people who got sued for helping (and doing sthg wrong) in the States. 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, CecilM said:

There’s a German law about “neglect to help”; and first aid courses are mandatory for obtaining a driver’s licence. I still remember what our Professor told us: if you witness an accident it’s best to throw up or faint to claim being incapable to help.

I remember reading about people who got sued for helping (and doing sthg wrong) in the States. 

I actually set about gaining qualifications to work as a nurse in the USA, but when I found out that patients sued anyone they could for anything they could think of, even just for being in the room while the alleged infraction took place I gave that away and went to Saudi instead. Had different sorts of problems there, but at least I didn't have to worry about being sued every time I went to work.

[eto1]

It wasn't so much of a slap on the back, but a pat on the back as in well done youve managed to fill your whole mouth with food. 

[actonion]

How do  you know he was  English,  many countries ( try) use the English  language

[CecilM]

27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I actually set about gaining qualifications to work as a nurse in the USA, but when I found out that patients sued anyone they could for anything they could think of, even just for being in the room while the alleged infraction took place I gave that away and went to Saudi instead. Had different sorts of problems there, but at least I didn't have to worry about being sued every time I went to work.

Hospital staff getting sued, teaching staff getting shot or beaten to death. Sad state of affairs in the States. 

[The Theory]

A great lesson for a "hero". ????

I never wish to be one. Being a hero and saving an animal life is more valuable. 

[scubascuba3]

6 hours ago, Tropposurfer said:

This manoeuvre is banned in Australia and has been for many years (St. Johns ambulance staff, no para-medic, doctor, nurse or hospital staff use it anymore) because it risks breaking ribs and causing internal organ damage (especially if the person has some spinal damage or spinal abnormality you don't know about - spurs). 

 

The standard procedure for dislodging food in the oesophagus is a firm flat hand slap between the centre of the shoulder blades. Repeated numerous times if warranted.

 

As an added note:

Putting your fingers in a persons mouth to try to clear an obstruction can be very dangerous to you - especially if they are unconscious - reflex biting can be extremely strong!

 

It may be necessary especially if the person has vomited considerably ... ... Drowned people often have this symptom. Clearing the mouth and positioning the patient correctly in the 'rescue position' is then done quickly prior to, and sometimes during resuscitation if the patient begins to revive, cough and express material from the mouth.

 

Other posters have already said; No first aid should be offered or administered unless the proposed recipient (so long as they are conscious) agrees to your assistance BEFORE you touch them at all.

 

If the person is unconscious, you are trained, and are willing to take the responsibility of any impact your first-aid intervention may have then by all means assist the person.

But be warned if you hurt them or they die under your care you may be considered liable to some degree.

 

As we get older we produce less saliva. it's a a good idea to have some liquid when eating and take sips between mouthfuls to lubricate the mouth and throat.

It's still recommended in many countries, Australia is only one small country by population.

 

Certainly I'd be happy with broken ribs but able to breathe i.e not dead

 

"rare abdominal complications can happen, but in a life-or-death situation, performing the Heimlich maneuver is still recommended"

 

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/21675-heimlich-maneuver#:~:text=Other rare abdominal complications can,Heimlich maneuver is still recommended.

[scottiejohn]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

It's still recommended in many countries, Australia is only one small country by population.

 

Certainly I'd be happy with broken ribs but able to breathe i.e not dead

 

"rare abdominal complications can happen, but in a life-or-death situation, performing the Heimlich maneuver is still recommended"

 

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/21675-heimlich-maneuver#:~:text=Other rare abdominal complications can,Heimlich maneuver is still recommended.

You missed out two points in your post.  It is NOT the opinion or recommendation of a National Organisation like the NHS (UK) but the two year old web post from the "Cleveland Clinic", whoever they are!

 

You also stated "the Heimlich maneuver is still recommended" but omitted  to put "but in a life-or-death situation" in front of your partial quote.  In full it reads;

"but in a life-or-death situation, performing the Heimlich maneuver is still recommended."  Please note the emphasis on "but in a life-or-death situation"!

 

[scubascuba3]

1 minute ago, scottiejohn said:

You missed out two points in your post.  It is NOT the opinion or recommendation of a National Organisation like the NHS (UK) but the two year old web post from the "Cleveland Clinic", whoever they are!

 

You also stated "the Heimlich maneuver is still recommended" but omitted  to put "but in a life-or-death situation" in front of your partial quote.  In full it reads;

"but in a life-or-death situation, performing the Heimlich maneuver is still recommended."  Please note the emphasis on "but in a life-or-death situation"!

 

of course it's a life or death situation, you aren't having a chat about the weather and decide to do the Heimlich maneuver 

[scubascuba3]

5 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

You missed out two points in your post.  It is NOT the opinion or recommendation of a National Organisation like the NHS (UK) but the two year old web post from the "Cleveland Clinic", whoever they are!

 

You also stated "the Heimlich maneuver is still recommended" but omitted  to put "but in a life-or-death situation" in front of your partial quote.  In full it reads;

"but in a life-or-death situation, performing the Heimlich maneuver is still recommended."  Please note the emphasis on "but in a life-or-death situation"!

 

BTW NHS does recommend abdominal thrusts which as described is the same or very similar to the Heimlich maneuver. Link shows when and how to use it

 

https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/accidents-first-aid-and-treatments/what-should-i-do-if-someone-is-choking/#:~:text=Place your arms around their,movement up to 5 times.

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