1 hour ago, connda said:

Cannabis is not addictive.

 

The medical profession disagrees with you...I prefer to trust the experts.

23 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

The medical profession disagrees with you...I prefer to trust the experts.

Oh, those guys who never smoked a spliff in their lives?

15 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Oh, those guys who never smoked a spliff in their lives?

You might be surprised

4 hours ago, drmal said:

There's no reason to start smoking "weed" at all.

Really? For some of us it is a cure. I understood very early in life that I am a better person, both to myself and others, when I self-medicate with cannabis daily. Works for me, but I don't evangelize to others. I suggest you don't either. 

59 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

The medical profession disagrees with you...I prefer to trust the experts.

Since cannabis is still a schedule 1 drug in the USA and there has been only extremely limited clinical study compared to all other drugs, how has the medical profession come to this definitive conclusion? 

Even a rudimentary internet search will give you articles from many governmental organisations stating Cannabis is addictive.  There have been studies, eg. the 2002 study done by the Us Dept of Health & Human Serv's.

 

Here's an article from the USA's CDC Addiction | Health Effects | Marijuana | CDC

 

Addiction (Marijuana or Cannabis Use Disorder)

Some people who use marijuana will develop marijuana use disorder, meaning that they are unable to stop using marijuana even though it’s causing health and social problems in their lives.

• One study estimated that approximately 3 in 10 people who use marijuana have marijuana use disorder.¹
• Another study estimated that people who use cannabis have about a 10% likelihood of becoming addicted.²
• The risk of developing marijuana use disorder is greater in people who start using marijuana during youth or adolescence and who use marijuana more frequently.³

The following are signs of marijuana use disorder ⁴:

• Using more marijuana than intended
• Trying but failing to quit using marijuana
• Spending a lot of time using marijuana
• Craving marijuana
• Using marijuana even though it causes problems at home, school, or work
• Continuing to use marijuana despite social or relationship problems.
• Giving up important activities with friends and family in favor of using marijuana.
• Using marijuana in high-risk situations, such as while driving a car.
• Continuing to use marijuana despite physical or psychological problems.
• Needing to use more marijuana to get the same high.
• Experiencing withdrawal symptoms when stopping marijuana use.

People who have marijuana use disorder may also be at a higher risk of other negative consequences, such as problems with attention, memory, and learning.

Some people who have marijuana use disorder may need to use more and more marijuana or greater concentrations of marijuana over time to experience a “high.” The greater the amount of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) in marijuana (in other words, the concentration or strength), the stronger the effects the marijuana may have on the brain.^5,6 The amount of THC in marijuana has increased over the past few decades.⁶

In a study of cannabis research samples over time, the average delta-9 THC (the main form of THC in the cannabis plant) concentration almost doubled, from 9% in 2008 to 17% in 2017.⁷ Products from dispensaries often offer much higher concentrations than seen in this study. In a study of products available in online dispensaries in 3 states with legal non-medical adult marijuana use, the average THC concentration was 22%, with a range of 0% to 45%.⁸ In addition, some methods of using marijuana (for example, dabbing and vaping concentrates) may deliver very high levels of THC to the user.^6,9

Researchers do not yet know the full extent of the consequences when the body and brain are exposed to high concentrations of THC or how recent increases in concentrations affect the risk of someone developing marijuana use disorder.⁶

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

You might be surprised

Sure, but if they didn't get addicted? Did they rewrite their papers? Addiction is tied to circumstances I think. Poverty, desperation, a bad crowd. Very hard to kick if you're down.

51 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Even a rudimentary internet search

Even more rudimentary, it's already been posted on page 1 of this thread. ????

 

That said, it hardly represents all encompassing "medical profession" which some "expert" posted about.

 

But yes, I am bowing to your "expertise".

 

 

 

 

29 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

Even more rudimentary, it's already been posted on page 1 of this thread. ????

 

That said, it hardly represents all encompassing "medical profession" which some "expert" posted about.

 

But yes, I am bowing to your "expertise".

 

Oh did I claim to be an expert?  Where exactly did I make that claim?  You are gaslighting Sir.

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Oh did I claim to be an expert?

I conferred that honor on you.

 

Based on your professed "experience", and your ability to Google and find articles. Exemplary.

 

If I've made a mistake, and I often do, please advise.

 

6 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

You are gaslighting Sir.

Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which the abuser attempts to sow self-doubt and confusion in their victim's mind. 

 

 

Unless you experienced self-doubt or confusion based on my post you should probably retract that statement. 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

The medical profession disagrees with you...I prefer to trust the experts.

"Experts" often have no actual experience. 

A true cannabis "Expert" is someone who has used it for a few years or decades and understands exactly what effect it has.

I smoked very often in my teens and 20s.  Sometimes every day.  My use was situational.  Pretty much everyone I associate with in the late 60s and in the 70s smoked pot.  Often.  But true addiction cause physiological changes to your body where when you stop the addictive substance it causes physical withdrawal, so in order to not experience withdrawal you go back to taking the substance.

Caffeine is physically addictive.
Alcohol in addictive (for some people)
Opioids are highly physically addictive.
Benzodiazapines are highly physically addictive. 

Nicotine is more physically addictive then any of the above, and it has a profound habitual component to it as well in a very Operant Conditioning, positive reinforcement manner.  Quitting a smoking habit is three days of withdrawal and months or years of breaking the habitual Operant Conditioning.  Start again you probably will not stop - That's addictive.

Cannabis is not physically addictive.  You can quit any time and never go through a withdrawal with physical cravings.  However, like smoking cigarettes (nicotine), there may be a habitual conditioning component in some people - a system of self-reinforcing positive rewards when you get stoned.  So if you use every day - yeah, you can develop a habitual operant conditioned response that takes some will power to break. 
Is that 'addictive.'  Semantics.  To me?  "No."
I used cannabis to break my smoking habit decades ago.  I could pair a cannabis 'smoke' reward to not having a cigarette.  I'm clean from Nicotine, but......
"Hi.  I'm Connda and I'm a Nicotine addict."  If they had Nicotine Anonymous <laughs>.

Is your mobile phone 'addictive?'  No.  You don't get physically hooked to your cell phone and go through physical withdrawals when you stop using it. (Maybe - I could play Devil's Advocate and argue a case that it does).  However - the habitual operant conditioning response to continuous dompimine hits may make it almost impossible for some people to put down, especially younger people who grew up playing Angry Birds as a toddler.  Try taking their phone away from them!  Or try taking a Smart Phone away from a toddler who is thoroughly hooked to gaming on one!  ????

Cannabis is not addictive.  You yourself could smoke it every day for a month, put it down, and walk away.
If you take opioids every day for a month, you are not going to 'put it down and walk away.'  Not by a long shot.
Or if you're a non-smoker, smoke cigarettes for a month and trying stepping away from them. 
Try it. 
Then you'll be an 'expert' too.

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Even a rudimentary internet search will give you articles from many governmental organisations stating Cannabis is addictive.  There have been studies, eg. the 2002 study done by the Us Dept of Health & Human Serv's.

 

Here's an article from the USA's CDC Addiction | Health Effects | Marijuana | CDC

 

Addiction (Marijuana or Cannabis Use Disorder)

Some people who use marijuana will develop marijuana use disorder, meaning that they are unable to stop using marijuana even though it’s causing health and social problems in their lives.

• One study estimated that approximately 3 in 10 people who use marijuana have marijuana use disorder.¹
• Another study estimated that people who use cannabis have about a 10% likelihood of becoming addicted.²
• The risk of developing marijuana use disorder is greater in people who start using marijuana during youth or adolescence and who use marijuana more frequently.³

The following are signs of marijuana use disorder ⁴:

• Using more marijuana than intended
• Trying but failing to quit using marijuana
• Spending a lot of time using marijuana
• Craving marijuana
• Using marijuana even though it causes problems at home, school, or work
• Continuing to use marijuana despite social or relationship problems.
• Giving up important activities with friends and family in favor of using marijuana.
• Using marijuana in high-risk situations, such as while driving a car.
• Continuing to use marijuana despite physical or psychological problems.
• Needing to use more marijuana to get the same high.
• Experiencing withdrawal symptoms when stopping marijuana use.

People who have marijuana use disorder may also be at a higher risk of other negative consequences, such as problems with attention, memory, and learning.

Some people who have marijuana use disorder may need to use more and more marijuana or greater concentrations of marijuana over time to experience a “high.” The greater the amount of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) in marijuana (in other words, the concentration or strength), the stronger the effects the marijuana may have on the brain.^5,6 The amount of THC in marijuana has increased over the past few decades.⁶

In a study of cannabis research samples over time, the average delta-9 THC (the main form of THC in the cannabis plant) concentration almost doubled, from 9% in 2008 to 17% in 2017.⁷ Products from dispensaries often offer much higher concentrations than seen in this study. In a study of products available in online dispensaries in 3 states with legal non-medical adult marijuana use, the average THC concentration was 22%, with a range of 0% to 45%.⁸ In addition, some methods of using marijuana (for example, dabbing and vaping concentrates) may deliver very high levels of THC to the user.^6,9

Researchers do not yet know the full extent of the consequences when the body and brain are exposed to high concentrations of THC or how recent increases in concentrations affect the risk of someone developing marijuana use disorder.⁶

The anti-cannabis brigade are attracted to this forum like a moth to a candle flame.  <laughs> ????️

If you don't like it, don't use it.  Simple.  Easy-Breezy.  Live and let live.  Nobody is twisting your arms.
Heck, my grandfather ran alcohol from Canada to the States during US Prohibition.  My lack of empathy or understanding for the Temperance Union prohibition-types out there probably flows in my veins. 

Then I always wonder what their personal addictions are.  ????

10 hours ago, mikebike said:

how has the medical profession come to this definitive conclusion? 

And why?  or rather who paid them 

On 7/12/2023 at 7:06 AM, JBChiangRai said:

Most users live in their little bubble of normality, i.e. I'm not addicted so there is no addiction, I'm not violent so there is no violence.

 

Some of us in the judiciary or medical field see what happens when it all goes wrong, and I can tell you that your bubble of normality is well and truly burst for us.

Yeah right, a magistrate handing down fixed penalty fines for instances of minor possession  must posses a really in depth knowledge of fictional cannabis addiction.

 

  "I only did it coz i was stoned"   "I'm an addict I need help"  "i'm the victim here" etc  etc

 

People make up all sorts of excuses to explain their behaviour  The police have also been known to stray from the facts too

The overwhelming majority of victims in this "war" are the innocent users many of whom have been imprisoned and all of whom will have to live out their lives with a drugs conviction on their record.

Its known as the war on drugs, and what is the first casualty of war ?  The truth of course

 

On 7/9/2023 at 8:56 PM, gargamon said:

All this concern about getting addicted to cannabis, there's hope on the horizon...

 

-------

BORDEAUX, France — Could AEF0117, a drug that has a novel mechanism of action in the brain, be the drug to fight cannabis addiction? Results from a phase 2a clinical trial that examined the efficacy of AEF0117 in patients with cannabis use disorder have created quite a stir. The study was published in Nature Medicine. Not only did AEF0117 weaken the effects of cannabis, but it also decreased a person's desire to use it, all without causing withdrawal symptoms. These findings have generated a significant buzz in the scientific and medical community.

"In the past, 8% of cannabis users would develop an addiction — today, this figure is 15%. Addiction to cannabis has become the main reason for seeking treatment at specialist drug clinics," said Pier Vincenzo Piazza, MD, PhD, psychiatrist, neurobiologist, and general director of Aelis Farma, the biopharmaceutical company that developed AEF0117.

This rise in cases can be explained by the increase in THC content in cannabis over the years. THC content increased from 5% in the 1970s to 30% today. Although cannabis is still less addictive than tobacco (33% of users become addicted), cocaine, heroin, or alcohol (25% of users become addicted), the number of cannabis users is increasing. Currently, 14.2 million in the United States and more than half a million in France use cannabis.

 

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/993613

Thankyou for sharing.

On 7/20/2023 at 12:40 PM, bamnutsak said:

Even more rudimentary, it's already been posted on page 1 of this thread. ????

ouch.

On 7/20/2023 at 2:01 PM, connda said:

"Experts" often have no actual experience. 

A true cannabis "Expert" is someone who has used it for a few years or decades and understands exactly what effect it has.

I smoked very often in my teens and 20s.  Sometimes every day.  My use was situational.  Pretty much everyone I associate with in the late 60s and in the 70s smoked pot.  Often.  But true addiction cause physiological changes to your body where when you stop the addictive substance it causes physical withdrawal, so in order to not experience withdrawal you go back to taking the substance.

Caffeine is physically addictive.
Alcohol in addictive (for some people)
Opioids are highly physically addictive.
Benzodiazapines are highly physically addictive. 

Nicotine is more physically addictive then any of the above, and it has a profound habitual component to it as well in a very Operant Conditioning, positive reinforcement manner.  Quitting a smoking habit is three days of withdrawal and months or years of breaking the habitual Operant Conditioning.  Start again you probably will not stop - That's addictive.

Cannabis is not physically addictive.  You can quit any time and never go through a withdrawal with physical cravings.  However, like smoking cigarettes (nicotine), there may be a habitual conditioning component in some people - a system of self-reinforcing positive rewards when you get stoned.  So if you use every day - yeah, you can develop a habitual operant conditioned response that takes some will power to break. 
Is that 'addictive.'  Semantics.  To me?  "No."
I used cannabis to break my smoking habit decades ago.  I could pair a cannabis 'smoke' reward to not having a cigarette.  I'm clean from Nicotine, but......
"Hi.  I'm Connda and I'm a Nicotine addict."  If they had Nicotine Anonymous <laughs>.

Is your mobile phone 'addictive?'  No.  You don't get physically hooked to your cell phone and go through physical withdrawals when you stop using it. (Maybe - I could play Devil's Advocate and argue a case that it does).  However - the habitual operant conditioning response to continuous dompimine hits may make it almost impossible for some people to put down, especially younger people who grew up playing Angry Birds as a toddler.  Try taking their phone away from them!  Or try taking a Smart Phone away from a toddler who is thoroughly hooked to gaming on one!  ????

Cannabis is not addictive.  You yourself could smoke it every day for a month, put it down, and walk away.
If you take opioids every day for a month, you are not going to 'put it down and walk away.'  Not by a long shot.
Or if you're a non-smoker, smoke cigarettes for a month and trying stepping away from them. 
Try it. 
Then you'll be an 'expert' too.

Good post. 

 

The most addictive drugs are nicotine, benzodiazepines, methadone. 

I'm a recovered alcoholics, it's addiction is more a spiritual thing for me, although the other two facets have come into play, physical and psychological/emotional. 

Addicts need something to fill the spiritual void, spiritual things can do this, as can cannabis, LSD, non addictive things, IMHO.  

In Narcotics Anonymous you are not clean if you take cannabis. 

 

On 7/14/2023 at 9:11 PM, nglodnig said:

There are addictive personalities that will get addicted to ANYTHING - it's not the fault of the chemical, it is with the person.

Correct. It's not the same as alcohol which one will get addicted to.

https://marijuana-anonymous.org/

 

This is a fellowship of recovering marijuana addicts. 

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

https://marijuana-anonymous.org/

 

This is a fellowship of recovering marijuana addicts. 

There is a "fellowship" for everything...

Going into a bar to tell people the dangers of alcohol is going to be met by derision, regardless of the truth, same with here.