Thailand: Pita’s loss is Thaksin’s gain

[Flory]

14 hours ago, Enzian said:

Couldn't he have kept some of his policy intentions to himself until he was settled in office? Assuming he was serious? I'm not saying he has been wrong, but that one thing has been a no-win and red cape to a red bull (no pun intended) with the large conservative elements of the country--even if his proposal is very mild in its extent.

If the goal was simply power, then yes, that would have been the correct course of action. FF and MFP are totally novel propositions in Thailand's experiment with democracy -- they are the first parties to prioritize principles and systemic reform rather than populist handouts. Prayuth and his clan have done them a huge favor in opening the eyes of large numbers of previously indifferent Thais to the deficiencies of their preferred system of governance.

Until now, the conservative parties have always been the "principled" ones, although the  principles have been a rather myopic view of nation, religion, and monarchy . Even PT and its past incarnations treated democratic ideals expediently -- in word and in deed.

[jacko45k]

20 hours ago, Colki said:

fdimike... name other countries where the opposition can oppose  and vote down the choice of a PM candidate when various parties combine to form a ruling coalition.

It is like the House of Lords having the right to vote for PM in the UK.

[billd766]

On 7/14/2023 at 10:35 AM, h90 said:

firing MPs that don't vote what you want? Democracy North Korea style......

It is already here in Thailand.

[billd766]

On 7/14/2023 at 12:54 PM, Denim said:

The hand picked senators only ever had the one raison d'etre as we have just witnessed. 

 

Still , this bunches tenure expires before the next election. Who will fill their boots when they are gone.

If the caretaker government does not change they can re-appoint the existing senators once again

[bradiston]

5 minutes ago, billd766 said:

If the caretaker government does not change they can re-appoint the existing senators once again

 No they can't. No senator can serve consecutive terms.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_of_Thailand

[billd766]

7 minutes ago, bradiston said:

 No they can't. No senator can serve consecutive terms.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_of_Thailand

Of course they can.

 

Have you forgotten who wrote the rules and who regularly ignore the rules?

[anchadian]

Move Forward Leader Pita Limjaroenrat said that he is ready to step aside and let the Pheu Thai party take the lead in forming the next government, if his party fails to get him selected as prime minister or to amend the Constitution.

 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/pita-ready-to-step-aside-if-his-party-fails-to-win-senators-hearts/

Edited July 15, 2023 by anchadian

[anchadian]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Of course they can.

 

Have you forgotten who wrote the rules and who regularly ignore the rules?

Exactly.

[bradiston]

29 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Of course they can.

 

Have you forgotten who wrote the rules and who regularly ignore the rules?

Oh give it a rest.

[mfd101]

6 hours ago, jacko45k said:

It is like the House of Lords having the right to vote for PM in the UK.

UK 1910-11 vs Thailand 2023: an interesting comparison.

 

In 1910-11 the Liberal Government forced through reform of the Lords (Conservatives almost all & refusing to approve a money bill) by threatening - with the support of the King - to create more and more new lords (all hereditary in those days) till their legislation was passed.

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, anchadian said:

Move Forward Leader Pita Limjaroenrat said that he is ready to step aside and let the Pheu Thai party take the lead in forming the next government, if his party fails to get him selected as prime minister or to amend the Constitution.

 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/pita-ready-to-step-aside-if-his-party-fails-to-win-senators-hearts/

Pesonally I think this is a mistake. I do not believe there will be a 3rd vote.

Pita will be challenged during the 2nd vote, and a new PM will be selected and  MF put opposition.

 

[Kalasin Jo]

On 7/14/2023 at 3:52 AM, sirineou said:

I don't know why they even hold a general election.

Even though my wife and her sister did not vote for Pita, in a conversation we had yesterday, they both said that if Pita is not PM , they are not wasting their time voting again.

I am sure they are the only ones to feel that way.

I understand their frustration but not voting again only further empowers the established elite.

I wonder whether they voted in the plebiscite on the constitution drafted by the junta, reserving to itself the appointment of senators and then this ridiculous leveraged vote margin over the elected House of Representatives. Although a slim margin of voters in that plebiscite were in favour the turn out was extremely low. The rules were approved and fixed at that time.

So the Establishment almost guaranteed to get the PM they want who then appoints his/her Cabinet Ministers who produce policy. Those policies to the extent requiring parliamentary approval are put to the House of Representatives and if they vote them down, the Senate puts them back up. The Establishment wins. Rinse and repeat.

Exactly the opposite to the UK where the appointed Upper House ( Lords) may reject all or parts of a policy bill but ultimately the Lower House and the party with a majority of elected MPs will succeed.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Kalasin Jo said:

I understand their frustration but not voting again only further empowers the established elite.

I wonder whether they voted in the plebiscite on the constitution drafted by the junta, reserving to itself the appointment of senators and then this ridiculous leveraged vote margin over the elected House of Representatives. Although a slim margin of voters in that plebiscite were in favour the turn out was extremely low. The rules were approved and fixed at that time.

So the Establishment almost guaranteed to get the PM they want who then appoints his/her Cabinet Ministers who produce policy. Those policies to the extent requiring parliamentary approval are put to the House of Representatives and if they vote them down, the Senate puts them back up. The Establishment wins. Rinse and repeat.

Exactly the opposite to the UK where the appointed Upper House ( Lords) may reject all or parts of a policy bill but ultimately the Lower House and the party with a majority of elected MPs will succeed.

Well at the very least it's set up so they don't get a PM they really don't want, and Pita fits that bill. 

[sirineou]

7 hours ago, Kalasin Jo said:

I understand their frustration but not voting again only further empowers the established elite.

If the whole general election thing is for show, is How could not participating in the show  further empowers  them? 

An argument can be made , that participating  in a "show" election empowers them because it legitimise the proces.  

 

[bradiston]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Well at the very least it's set up so they don't get a PM they really don't want, and Pita fits that bill. 

How so? How does Pita fit the bill of the PM that nobody wants?

[bannork]

4 minutes ago, bradiston said:

How so? How does Pita fit the bill of the PM that nobody wants?

He didn't say nobody, he said they .They being the elite who don't want MF because of its reformist agenda.

[bradiston]

5 minutes ago, bannork said:

He didn't say nobody, he said they .They being the elite who don't want MF because of its reformist agenda.

Ok, confusing, but point taken.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, bradiston said:

How so? How does Pita fit the bill of the PM that nobody wants?

Did I say nobody?

I obviously meant the appointed senate, etc.

[bradiston]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Did I say nobody?

I obviously meant the appointed senate, etc.

I already cleared up the misunderstanding.

[sscc]

The Writer  Shawn W. Crispin of AsiaTimes had the title wrong. 

Should have phrased  " Thailand :  Pita loss is Peua Thai Party gain "

 

Thaksin's gain ?    Hum,  just shows the writer is not in touch with reality. 

[billd766]

3 hours ago, bradiston said:

How so? How does Pita fit the bill of the PM that nobody wants?

IIRC 27 million Thai voters want Pita as their PM, but 250 UNELECTED senators don't. Why should they have the last word?