Opinion: Thailand is at a crossroads because of unelected, unaccountable bodies

[zzaa09]

7 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

A shadow government with no need for any charade elections manufactured and probably still administered by Prayut ????

.....and, most assuredly, others. 

The crux. 

[Thailand]

Just waiting for the head of the armed forces to re-confirm "there will not be a coup" then we will know exactly what the future holds.

[kwilco]

17 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

It's sad that people lie about communism because they're mad at the fact that it doesn't work.

Ignorant comments like that cloud the argumenty in hand - it shows that people really don't understand politics, let alone the politics of Thailand.

[kwilco]

22 minutes ago, connda said:

True that, as the apathy of a citizen in a democracy creates a vacuum which allows for the tyranny of a prince in an oligarchy (and the tyranny of other forms of Totalitarianism - even those which govern with a iron-fist or a 'boot stamping on a human face - forever...... but yet call themselves 'democracies.').  DINOs.  Democracies In Name Only.  A pig wearing lipstick is still a pig.

They occur due to the apathy of citizens.

It's pretty clear on this and other threads that many of the expats in Thailand have no idea what a democracy is or how it functions. Basically they resort to cliche and cynicism to hide their own ignorance.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In case you didn't notice, most of the Thai population are too busy trying to make a living to demonstrate in the streets ( IMO ). It's not like the west where the government steals takes other people's money to support the idle dole bludgers with plenty of time to cause trouble.

Most of the posters here do understand that most of the Thai population are too busy trying to make a living to demonstrate. They also understand that you can only push people so far before the people start pushing back.

 

IMHO Thailand is getting to that point now.

[BangkokReady]

3 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Ignorant comments like that cloud the argumenty in hand - it shows that people really don't understand politics, let alone the politics of Thailand.

There is nothing ignorant about my comment.

 

People need to be very careful when someone starts talking about revolutions.  They very often get out of control and people end up in a worse position than they were in the first place.

[BangkokReady]

36 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

The will of the people is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object.

 

Thomas Jefferson

Didn't Jefferson die 200 years ago?

[herfiehandbag]

3 hours ago, h90 said:

I am sure there will be a democratic elected PM...just not Pita

Goodness me, what bit of getting more votes than the other candidates do you not understand?

[KanchanaburiGuy]

 

"No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’ -- Winston Churchill 

[kwilco]

24 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

There is nothing ignorant about my comment.

 

 

how would you know?

Edited July 17, 2023 by kwilco

[zzaa09]

14 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Most of the posters here do understand that most of the Thai population are too busy trying to make a living to demonstrate. They also understand that you can only push people so far before the people start pushing back.

 

IMHO Thailand is getting to that point now.

Perhaps or perhaps not.

If historical precedent is a reflective factor regarding current affairs, a true mass pushback will develop from a dreamy outsiders perspective, less a Thai take on these situations - who know better as to their state. 

 

 

[mark131v]

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

Keep on your high horse, and keep believing that 250 people have more power than 27 million.

 

Simply more coup BS support from you.

 

You have no vote, and nobody cares what you think or want.

 

The Thai voters have said who they voted for and what THEY want, and if it is not what you want, that is called democracy.

 

It is their country and not yours, therefore what THEY want is paramount.

Your wasting your time mate, I really don't know if he is a bit slow on the uptake or a troll either way there is none so blind as he who refuses to see...

[KanchanaburiGuy]

1 hour ago, BangkokReady said:

Whenever someone says "the will of the people" I am immediately uneasy.  It has shades of communism.  "Are you questioning the will of the people comrade?"

 

Reform is likely to be much more successful and beneficial than a revolution.  Revolutions have a habit of quickly being taken over and turning into dictatorships.

 

We only need to look at the recent democratic movement which was quickly co-opted and lost all direction.

If not the will of the people, then whose?

 

Why would it make you uneasy when someone refers to "The Will of the People?"

 

Is there ANYONE ELSE'S will you'd rather be bound to?

 

"The Will of the People" is the very definition of Democracy. Or, as Abraham Lincoln put it, "Government of the people, by the people, for the people."

 

Communism, by contrast, isn't interested in "The Will of the People." Communism instead wants to dictate to people what will be good for them.:

 

"Here is what's good for you. Learn to love it! Love your government because we give you what's good for you." (Or at least what we TELL YOU is good for you!)

 

So, as I said..........

 

If not The Will of the People, then whose?

 

Who has a greater right to decide what the government should look like and how it should operate......... than The Governed?

 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by KanchanaburiGuy

[Flory]

Terrific opinion piece, but the replies in this thread are some of the worst I have seen on this forum.

[herfiehandbag]

8 hours ago, billd766 said:

Keep on your high horse, and keep believing that 250 people have more power than 27 million.

 

Simply more coup BS support from you.

 

You have no vote, and nobody cares what you think or want.

 

The Thai voters have said who they voted for and what THEY want, and if it is not what you want, that is called democracy.

 

It is their country and not yours, therefore what THEY want is paramount.

 

3 hours ago, mark131v said:

Your wasting your time mate, I really don't know if he is a bit slow on the uptake or a troll either way there is none so blind as he who refuses to see...

We've seen it before on these forums when discussing Thai politics - expatriates convinced , who are certain, that they know what is right for the Thai people and therefore the views/decisions of the electorate should be disregarded, and their solutions adopted; and therefore refuse to accept the settled views of the Thai electorate.

 

A strange phenomena in some ways, one that would be openly ridiculed in their home countries yet here they feel that they invest it with some validity; perhaps a 21st century Siamese equivalent of "the white man's burden"?

 

[MrMojoRisin]

4 hours ago, kwilco said:

how would you know?

???????????? Brilliant ????????????

[MrMojoRisin]

4 hours ago, mark131v said:

Your wasting your time mate, I really don't know if he is a bit slow on the uptake or a troll either way there is none so blind as he who refuses to see...

Slow on the uptake

[MrMojoRisin]

4 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Didn't Jefferson die 200 years ago?

His words, wisdom and ideas died with him?

[Puccini]

8 hours ago, h90 said:

...Often a president would not accept a prime minister or a minister. But that president is elected himself, which we don't have with the senate...

This makes no sense to me at all.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

The Thai people should endure so that your life is not "inconvenienced"?

 

You would deny them all the same opportunities that, ultimately, allowed you to arrive, plant yourself in Thailand and live a "superior" life, a "nice life in the sun".......at the Thai peoples expense?

 

That is the sum of it......for you and the rest of the neo-colonialists who capitalise on the injustice and inequality of Thailands socio-political-economic system.

 

Do you guys really not see the sort of people that you are?

 

 

 

 

I never saw a majority of the Thai population "enduring"!

The vast majority in my experience are not unhappy with their lives, and furthermore, IMO they lived better lives till they decided to try and be like western countries.

 

I guess you think western countries are better than Thailand, but I fundamentally disagree. IMO Thailand was far superior as a place to live compared to western countries till Thaksin stuffed it up.

 

Given the amount of western guys wanting to live in LOS and NOT with a western woman, I think many agree with me.

 

You would deny them all the same opportunities that, ultimately, allowed you to arrive, plant yourself in Thailand and live a "superior" life, a "nice life in the sun".......at the Thai peoples expense?

Who's denying Thais the same opportunities as I had? Did I have such a great life- you don't know what sort of life I had, yet you shout down from your ivory tower at how privileged I am- you know nothing about me.

 

As for living at Thai people's expense- what a stupid comment!

I paid for everything I had in LOS, so some were living at my expense, and at the expense of every farang that paid large to live in LOS.

 

Do you guys really not see the sort of people that you are?

C'mon man, enough with the cryptic hints- say what you really think.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

 

We've seen it before on these forums when discussing Thai politics - expatriates convinced , who are certain, that they know what is right for the Thai people and therefore the views/decisions of the electorate should be disregarded, and their solutions adopted; and therefore refuse to accept the settled views of the Thai electorate.

 

A strange phenomena in some ways, one that would be openly ridiculed in their home countries yet here they feel that they invest it with some validity; perhaps a 21st century Siamese equivalent of "the white man's burden"?

 

Very well said.

 

I'm sure the Thais are sick to the back teeth with western busybodies that think they know better than the Thais how to run Thailand while their own countries are becoming unpleasant, humour devoid social snake pits of despair run by the woke and unelected bureaucrats, and from which many are trying to leave to live in LOS.

If it was easier for farangs to actually live long time in LOS I have no doubt the planes would be chocka on the way to and almost empty on the way back from LOS to western countries.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

If not The Will of the People, then whose?

 

Who has a greater right to decide what the government should look like and how it should operate......... than The Governed?

I wouldn't trust half the people I see around to vote for a "sanitation engineer" let alone the people who dictate how I should or should not live.

 

Sooner we can get rid of the politicians and install an AI that is capable of creating a country that is for the benefit of all, and not just vested interests, the better, IMO.

[BangkokReady]

7 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

His words, wisdom and ideas died with him?

A lot has happened in 200 years. Particularly communists using the idea of what "the people" want or what "belongs" to them to seize and maintain control over others.

[BritManToo]

20 hours ago, pegman said:

You got that number backwards. 72% of voters selected  coalition party members

Nobody voted for any coalition party members as the coalition was formed after the election.

Edited July 18, 2023 by BritManToo

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I guess you think western countries are better than Thailand, but I fundamentally disagree. IMO Thailand was far superior as a place to live compared to western countries till Thaksin stuffed it up.

Agree with all that, except that part.  Thaksin gave them, almost free, true universal healthcare, literally saving millions of people's lives who couldn't afford healthcare prior.

[zzaa09]

9 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

 

We've seen it before on these forums when discussing Thai politics - expatriates convinced , who are certain, that they know what is right for the Thai people and therefore the views/decisions of the electorate should be disregarded, and their solutions adopted; and therefore refuse to accept the settled views of the Thai electorate.

 

A strange phenomena in some ways, one that would be openly ridiculed in their home countries yet here they feel that they invest it with some validity; perhaps a 21st century Siamese equivalent of "the white man's burden"?

 

A creepy percentage of this circle that you speak of are increasingly obsessed with the ideal that Thailand should follow and mirror everything that is the West.........especially from disconnected Anglophone types.

 

A sad and unaware state to what these folks are. 

[herfiehandbag]

52 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

A creepy percentage of this circle that you speak of are increasingly obsessed with the ideal that Thailand should follow and mirror everything that is the West.........especially from disconnected Anglophone types.

 

A sad and unaware state to what these folks are. 

Personally I think that the "white man's burden" to which I refer is not so much expecting Thailand to mirror Western systems per se, ( there is nothing wrong for example with simple democratic legitimacy or independent apolitical courts for example, rather expecting Thailand to follow their personal ideals, often ones which would be regarded as beyond the constitutional boundaries if not downright authoritarian in their home countries.

 

And, a minor point, but I find that the most common actors in this field are often "Teutonic" rather than "Anglophone"!

Edited July 18, 2023 by herfiehandbag

[h90]

15 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

Now what kind of argument is that? To excuse the undemocratic process in Thailand with other undemocratic processes around the world. That doesn't make any sense at all.

So your point is all the world is undemocratic? I would actually agree with it.

[h90]

3 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Personally I think that the "white man's burden" to which I refer is not so much expecting Thailand to mirror Western systems per se, ( there is nothing wrong for example with simple democratic legitimacy or independent apolitical courts for example, rather expecting Thailand to follow their personal ideals, often ones which would be regarded as beyond the constitutional boundaries if not downright authoritarian in their home countries.

 

And, a minor point, but I find that the most common actors in this field are often "Teutonic" rather than "Anglophone"!

I saw the typos: We know everything better, the Thais know nothing type from both Germans and British....Mostly by bitter old males who failed themself in their home country.

Saw that far less with women and far less with Americans (but my sample of Americans is more business people so might be biased).

The Teutonic ones are just more outspoken than others so it is more visible....

[h90]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Agree with all that, except that part.  Thaksin gave them, almost free, true universal healthcare, literally saving millions of people's lives who couldn't afford healthcare prior.

Yes Thaksin took the concept from the Democrats which they could not finance and implemented it without the funds. With very bad results.....We know several middle age housewomen who all the time run for the free healthcare because they are bored, so there aren't enough resources for the people who really need it. (Of course that reforms were never made is not Thaksins fault but that of everyone after him)