Advice on concrete ceilings and where to go for double glass neutral windows

[FlorC]

Hey guys 
I 'm getting an upgrade as in a new build room.
But the thais still don't get insulation. Has to be cheap , but I'm paying too

and I want a concrete ceiling. They are not too happy or eager with that.

Now the room is 6 x 4,5 meter and the only concrete ceiling I can find is the standard Thai 4 meter.
Is it true that there aren't longer ones ? Yes shophouses or townhouses all are 4 meter wide ,

but there are wider buildings without support .

Why I really want concrete ceiling like having a second floor ? For sound (especially low frequencies ) and I want to stop the heat coming through , because the heat is not stopped by their angled roof (roof tiles of those colored roof plates) and a thin ceiling plate/tiles like thin gyroc.

 

 

Second thing : Windows (and sliding glass doors) !! Is there no double glazing in Thailand , except for some expensive companies in the Pattaya/Bangkok area ? Here up north , Global house and Home pro have 4 or 5 different makes or windows , Windows Asia seems the biggest , non have double glazing. Some have PVC or/and Aluminium.

It gets worse , they all have a green filter , some more than others . It gives the light coming in a greenish shine , I absolutely don't like. I want clear white light. You can't even replace the glass ! If you break it , the whole windows needs to be replaced ? That is what they told me.

Well they are cheap . Like a 2 sliding window with mosquito net about 1,5 x1,5 meters is only 2500-3500 baht. Or 2 sliding doors with lock only 7000 B . But green light and no double glazing for sound and heat ?

Back in my country , living in a street with lots of traffic , double glazing did absolute wonders. Now again , I'm not far from a big road and potentionaly loud people .

[McTavish]

Get a builder who knows suspended concrete construction.  It aint rocket science and 6m or more spans are common.  2 builders near me have such projects nearing completion.  One goes by the name EDAB, Euro Building and Design.  Another is Chinese Thai I think, no company name seen.

Plenty of double glazing companies around the North, one being SMK in Chiang Mai.  http://www.smkaluminium.com/  Another was DW doors and windows from memory.

[McTavish]

Found D&W - https://www.doorandwindow.asia/th/

 

They used to have a Northern rep.  That may've changed as it looks like the business name has changed.

[lopburi3]

Just FYI the normal ceiling is either suspended cement or gypsum board and for either fiberglass insulation batts can easily be placed on them to greatly reduce heat transfer.  This is normal Thai construction that all will know and not expensive.  I would not be keen on living below a local installed cement ceiling myself; even knowing there are not many earthquakes here.

 

As for windows locals can make single but probably not double.  But using thicker glass is an option with single that helps a lot for noise.  And local made can be local repaired.

[gamb00ler]

I think Thai Conch has double glazed windows.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/ewdKxc1qy5tCQLHf7

 

It's located on the 700 year road just South of the junction with route 1006.

 

She also does shower glass and mirrors.

[FlorC]

1 hour ago, McTavish said:

Get a builder who knows suspended concrete construction.  It aint rocket science and 6m or more spans are common.  2 builders near me have such projects nearing completion.  One goes by the name EDAB, Euro Building and Design.  Another is Chinese Thai I think, no company name seen.

Plenty of double glazing companies around the North, one being SMK in Chiang Mai.  http://www.smkaluminium.com/  Another was DW doors and windows from memory.

1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

Just FYI the normal ceiling is either suspended cement or gypsum board and for either fiberglass insulation batts can easily be placed on them to greatly reduce heat transfer.  This is normal Thai construction that all will know and not expensive.  I would not be keen on living below a local installed cement ceiling myself; even knowing there are not many earthquakes here.

 

As for windows locals can make single but probably not double.  But using thicker glass is an option with single that helps a lot for noise.  And local made can be local repaired.

These are semi professional builders . The question is , do I trust them with a concrete ceiling over me or my car ?

And do I trust these locally made concrete plates. But I haven't heard of floors of shop or townhouses falling down.

 

I'll email those window companies tomorrow , I live in Phrae , so even Chiang mai is pretty far.

 

[lopburi3]

Not sure if my post was clear - cement board is only about 1/4" thick so not a danger and everybody knows how to install (although they may prefer gypsum these days as easier to cut).  The cement board is especially useful under a roof that might leak as no damage done - but does not deaden sound as well as gypsum.

[MrJ2U]

2 hours ago, FlorC said:

stop the heat coming through

..... And the cool air-conditioned air from escaping through thin false cielings.   

 

There's prefabricated cement slabs that we had laid across for a cieling. Pretty heavy duty, they needed a large crane to put them in place. Rooms nice and cool with minimal help from the Aircon. 

[McTavish]

9 hours ago, FlorC said:

These are semi professional builders . The question is , do I trust them with a concrete ceiling over me or my car ?

And do I trust these locally made concrete plates. But I haven't heard of floors of shop or townhouses falling down.

 

I'll email those window companies tomorrow , I live in Phrae , so even Chiang mai is pretty far.

I'm sure you have commercial builders in Phrae with shop-house construction experience wherein floor/ceiling spans are ~6m wide.  An engineer can specify detail according to your plan though I would expect a 6m span to be supported on 20 x 20cm posts with a 450 x 200 top/perimeter beam. 

Pre-cast planks can be employed as a base for a poured concrete topping provided adequate steel mesh is fabricated and tied into exposed rebar in the perimeter beams  Under no circumstances should fencing mesh be used despite it being common for ground floor construction.

The preferred method is by using form board, fully supported and the concrete roof slab poured all in one go.  Many builders in Chiang Mai are now (finally) using this method including my preferred building team of Burmese workers.

Window companies can deliver all around the North although some will insist on your paying of the extra cost for an onsite measure unless you order precise sizes and sign a waiver against incorrect measurements supplied.

Double glazing is well worth the hassle.  My house lot came from Bangkok along with the installation crew, but that was before SMK or D&W.  I would never use local Thai-made windows again. The heat/noise/dust insulation is essential PLUS quality windows keep geckos and insects at bay.

[lopburi3]

10 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

And the cool air-conditioned air from escaping through thin false cielings. 

Cool air falls - hot air rises.  

[sometimewoodworker]

13 hours ago, FlorC said:

I 'm getting an upgrade as in a new build room.
But the thais still don't get insulation. Has to be cheap

If you are saying that your build has to be cheap then you cannot have what you want.

There is grey Low-E glass it can be (I have it) built into custom sized IGUs (I have them) it is not cheap. To have sound control you must correctly seal the building and install correct windows and doors (I have them) It Is Not Cheap nor is it easy 

 

You can get hollow core concrete planks of any length (within reason) they are not cheap.
 

You can get concrete slabs as wide and long as you can pay for, just look at shopping centres, building like that is not cheap.
 

Our main room is 6.7 meters x 7.6 metres with no pillars, it is always 5~8 degrees cooler than outside with the AC not running 

[FlorC]

2 hours ago, McTavish said:

I'm sure you have commercial builders in Phrae with shop-house construction experience wherein floor/ceiling spans are ~6m wide.  An engineer can specify detail according to your plan though I would expect a 6m span to be supported on 20 x 20cm posts with a 450 x 200 top/perimeter beam. 

Pre-cast planks can be employed as a base for a poured concrete topping provided adequate steel mesh is fabricated and tied into exposed rebar in the perimeter beams  Under no circumstances should fencing mesh be used despite it being common for ground floor construction.

The preferred method is by using form board, fully supported and the concrete roof slab poured all in one go.  Many builders in Chiang Mai are now (finally) using this method including my preferred building team of Burmese workers.

Window companies can deliver all around the North although some will insist on your paying of the extra cost for an onsite measure unless you order precise sizes and sign a waiver against incorrect measurements supplied.

Double glazing is well worth the hassle.  My house lot came from Bangkok along with the installation crew, but that was before SMK or D&W.  I would never use local Thai-made windows again. The heat/noise/dust insulation is essential PLUS quality windows keep geckos and insects at bay.

When I wrote in first post : I 'm getting an upgrade as in a new build room , 

it is not with my choice of builders . It is adapting the bungalows/rooms like they built several 

more to what I want better , and paying to do so , but I don't own it.

So I'm limited . I did get through to get a double wall (second = qcon) at the south & west side.

But I'm glad to have posted here , because I now see the risks in pushing a concrete ceiling

when it might not be safe . 

Yes I've seen builders make floors with reinforced concrete , but that is not going to fly here.

The costs will be too high , even if they agree to it.

I will never own it , and the location is not good enough to work out some ground rental deal, 

and really make it my little house.

[FlorC]

45 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

If you are saying that your build has to be cheap then you cannot have what you want.

There is grey Low-E glass it can be (I have it) built into custom sized IGUs (I have them) it is not cheap. To have sound control you must correctly seal the building and install correct windows and doors (I have them) It Is Not Cheap nor is it easy 

 

You can get hollow core concrete planks of any length (within reason) they are not cheap.
 

You can get concrete slabs as wide and long as you can pay for, just look at shopping centres, building like that is not cheap.
 

Our main room is 6.7 meters x 7.6 metres with no pillars, it is always 5~8 degrees cooler than outside with the AC not running 

Yeah , good video , thanks.  I don't need convincing , I know about double glazing , but most Thais don't.

But like I said above , it will never be my property , so I cannot spend too much .

[MrJ2U]

3 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Cool air falls - hot air rises.  

All air escapes poorly sealed rooms.

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, FlorC said:

But like I said above , it will never be my property , so I cannot spend too much .

That is completely your choice, and your comfort is your choice, but just because it will never be yours should only be one factor. How valuable is your comfort?
 

However complaining that building methods or items are not available in Thailand is completely false. Virtually every method and item is available.
 

The problem is that different methods and materials are common in Thailand and so are available cheaply, uncommon methods and materials are available but are considerably more expensive.

 

The west uses double and triple glazing and standardised sizes so it is cheap, Thailand doesn’t, so it isn’t.

[FlorC]

24 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That is completely your choice, and your comfort is your choice, but just because it will never be yours should only be one factor. How valuable is your comfort?
 

However complaining that building methods or items are not available in Thailand is completely false. Virtually every method and item is available.
 

The problem is that different methods and materials are common in Thailand and so are available cheaply, uncommon methods and materials are available but are considerably more expensive.

 

The west uses double and triple glazing and standardised sizes so it is cheap, Thailand doesn’t, so it isn’t.

Small province , not much choice . The company that made those 4m ones said that I will not find longer ones.

So did another builder that finished a house a little further. That was only a ground floor too and no concrete ceiling.

 

" but just because it will never be yours should only be one factor. How valuable is your comfort? "

Yes I value my comfort , but lives can change on a dime. What is the saying here ? Don't spend more than you're willing to loose ?

 

I wouldn't call double and triple glazing in the west cheap !

[sometimewoodworker]

14 minutes ago, FlorC said:

I wouldn't call double and triple glazing in the west cheap !

If you look at the cost for a pre-made glazing unit and frame in the west as opposed to a custom sized frame and glazing and look at the wages / prices of items. Then the west has units available that are cheap, almost certainly cheaper than an equivalent single glazed unit in Thailand, and in any event as a percentage of a build cost they are cheap than an equivalent in Thailand.

 

14 minutes ago, FlorC said:

Small province , not much choice . The company that made those 4m ones said that I will not find longer ones.

Companies in Thailand will virtually never tell you how to get products they don’t have

 

14 minutes ago, FlorC said:

So did another builder that finished a house a little further.

Just because 2 builders didn’t know how or where to get something only means that they don’t know. That they lied to you doesn’t make it true.

 

In general in Thailand if you want something unusual you have to find it yourself and asking shops/builders will not get the answers.

 

You can get the items, you have to do the research, you have to contact the manufacturer/importer.

If you don’t want the bother, it isn’t easy, accept the locally available options.

[Russ McD]

I know the thread a bit old, but we got a house with new D&W windows installed, but no insect screens.  I see the channels are there to accept the screens, and I'm looking for the elusive D&W showroom in Chiang Mai.    Have emailed the Co in BKK, with no reply yet. 

Left phone no with a couple of other local companies who custom make screens, but I guess they are all still sat around a table drawing lots as to who is call the dreaded farang ! 

So has anyone in CM managed to find these specific D&W screens available for purchase up here ?

[lopburi3]

Indeed likely best to have a Thai speaker run point for check of local makers

[Dante99]

concrete ceiling or concrete roof? or both?