Trump charged with four counts over 2020 election

[bignok]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

You're buying all the Trumpist lies wholesale. There is no basis of discussion possible in this case. 

You are a Democrat. Enough said.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, bignok said:

You are a Democrat. Enough said.

The evidence that is sinking Trump is coming from republicans. This isn't about partisan matters. This is democracy versus authoritarian dictatorship. 

[BarraMarra]

All this Topic is about is He said this, he said that He did this, he did that, how long's this silly Thread going on? 

[bignok]

Just now, Jingthing said:

The evidence that is sinking Trump is coming from republicans. This isn't about partisan matters. This is democracy versus authoritarian dictatorship. 

Biden dictatorship using laws from 1870.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, bignok said:

Biden dictatorship using laws from 1870.

Sure thing, Buddy. Ba-bye.

[watthong]

4 hours ago, BarraMarra said:

Again I don't understand this IQ Bell ? anachronism ? obviates ? is it Dutch ?

 

As a Brit you should get out more, travel is easy (especially parts of the world that at one time or another had been grabbed colonially by the "Crown.") Don't restrict your world view to that of your telly screen, that would help the flow of general discussion...

[Walker88]

30 minutes ago, bignok said:

They never read it. Just jumped onto the hate train. Every Trump topic is the same repetitive hate.

Read it in its entirety. I doubt the trumpers read it.

 

SC Smith took trump's defense away right from the start, by saying trump has a First Amendment right to lie. Smith, however, noted that trump not only did not believe the lie (according to testimony from trump's staff), he was intimately involved in trying to derail the certification, which is illegal. Also, trump cannot claim his lawyers told him it was legal to appoint fake electors, both because it's illegal and also because ignorance of the law is no excuse (as has been noted already, nobody could say, "But my lawyer told me it was okay to rob a bank".

 

Witness testimony that will be presented shows:

 

-trump knew he lost

-he knew the scheme to appoint fake electors, etc., was illegal

-he was involved in the illegal plot

 

About the only thing left---besides filing endless delay petitions---for trump is to claim insanity.

 

Just as SC Smith added superceding charges in the stolen documents arrest, he may well add new charges to the current indictment. Even former AG Barr said on MSNBC that he thinks Smith will add additional charges.

 

Certainly what trump did falls under "Sedition" (10 U.S. Code § 894 - Art. 94. Mutiny or sedition), which is a capital offense.

 

No rational person, having listened to trump's speeches, read his Tweets, and seen the indictment, thinks trump's goal was anything less than overthrowing the democracy and keeping himself in power.

 

Absent jury intimidation or a trump lackey on the jury, conviction is virtually certain. This time trump has no (R) Senate to exonerate him, or an AG who blocks key parts of the investigative process.

[Bkk Brian]

32 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

You edited that quite a bit? I think what you mean is, Smith knows he can't prove a case of Insurrection, but thinks he can on those other less than spectacular charges. Charges which seem more related to slavery and how slaves should be treated etc.

Have you read the indictments and the 4 separate counts? I suggest you do because only one is using section 241 which you are referring to and there is a very good reason for it.

[Bkk Brian]

36 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

How that is putting words in your mouth, I have no idea. But hay if the cap fits wear it! 

 

You are aware that the fraudulent charge against Trump, comes from a law dated 1870 used against the KKK. And had everything to do with how slaves could or could not be treated. 

Again there are 4 separate counts against Trump. 

 

Count 1, conspiracy to defraud the United States, up to 5 years, fine of $250,000 or both

Count 2, conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, up to 20 years, fine of $250,000 or both

Count 3 is obstruction of an official proceeding, carries with it the same penalties as count 2.

 

“Count 4 in the indictment is conspiracy against rights. If convicted of this charge, sir, you can face a term of imprisonment of not more than 10 years, a fine of not more than $250000 or both. Supervised released up to 3 years.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/03/trump-court-election-charges-arraignment/

 

 

Section 241 being used on the 4th count is there because:

 

The Trump campaign targeted election results in Georgia’s Fulton County where it is 42% Black, Chatham County where it is 41% black, Michigan’s Wayne County, home of Detroit, a city with a population that is roughly 80 per cent Black. Wisconsin’s Milwaukee County, where the campaign demanded a recount and singled out a county with the largest population of Black voters in the state; roughly 70 per cent of the state’s Black.

The campaign also sought to undermine results in Philadelphia County, Pennsylvania, where 43 per cent of the population is Black, and 15 per cent Hispanic or Latino.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/title-18-usc-section-241-indictment-trump-b2386168.html

Edited August 4, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Walker88]

42 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

And Russian interference 555. Were they ever called out on  that?

You really know nothing about the russia investigation. I am sure you did not read the (R) issued SSCI report on it, which made damning claims about the trump campaign. Of course the report is 1000 pages, so I wouldn't expect a trumper to go through it.

 

Why did manafort hand GRU asset konstantin kilimnik detailed internal polling data from the trump campaign, which kilimnik then forwarded to the IRA in St Pete (A GRU disinformation entity), who then made up false stories about Hillary and forwarded them to voters in key swing States (using the polling data handed by trump Campaign Chair manafort). The manafort-kilimnik meeting took place in Spain in 2016.

 

That is only one thing, and I write it because it is public knowledge.

 

Because Barr front ran Mueller, plus prohibited Mueller from pursuing most leads (like the SIVs at Deutsche Bank), trumpers think trump did nothing wrong. That is far from the truth, but it is unlikely to be litigated because trump just keeps committing enough new crimes to keep law enforcement busy.

 

 

[CharlieKo]

48 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I've edited my post. I thought you were referring to another post.

I think I owe you an apology. I did confuse your post with that of another poster. Sorry.

[ozimoron]

15 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

I think I owe you an apology. I did confuse your post with that of another poster. Sorry.

I do it all the time.

[Neeranam]

16 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Of course the report is 1000 pages, so I wouldn't expect a trumper to go through it.

Take a good look at what you are implying here. 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Take a good look at what you are implying here. 

He's saying that the right wing typically don't read much. Judging by how links seem to kryptonite for the right around these pages, I'd say that was a given.

[Walker88]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Take a good look at what you are implying here. 

I know full well what I am implying, as do you.

 

You did not read the report. I would guesstimate 99.999% of trumpers did not read the SSCI report issued by the majority (R) Senate.

 

No pictures, no cartoons.

[bignok]

1 hour ago, BarraMarra said:

All this Topic is about is He said this, he said that He did this, he did that, how long's this silly Thread going on? 

Same people been at it for years.

[bignok]

14 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

I know full well what I am implying, as do you.

 

You did not read the report. I would guesstimate 99.999% of trumpers did not read the SSCI report issued by the majority (R) Senate.

 

No pictures, no cartoons.

Neither did you.

[Walker88]

3 minutes ago, bignok said:

Same people been at it for years.

You have 68 posts here, which makes you the leader.

 

Seems it has struck a nerve with you.

[Walker88]

3 minutes ago, bignok said:

Neither did you.

Yes, I did.

 

Perhaps I can send you my copy. If you'd like, I can ask then-SSCI Chair Marco Rubio to autograph it for you.

 

I can recite rhyme and verse from just about every official report on the russia investigation, as well as durham's 'investigation of the investigators'.

 

I have intimate knowledge of it from day 1. Someday ALL of it might be made public. Of course by then trump will be in jail for his election antics and stolen documents, and just a black mark against the office of the President, kind of like the McCarthy Era in the 1950s was to Congress.

[Walker88]

On this topic, here's a prediction:

 

trump will be found guilty on multiple counts both for 6 January and for the stolen documents. He will go to jail for the rest of his miserable life.

 

Candidates who sucked up to him will be viewed as immoral, as they would be supporting a convicted sex offender, a convicted charity fraudster, a convicted felon who tried to overthrow US democracy, and a convicted felon who stole nuclear, military and intelligence secrets.

 

That means desantis, scott, haley, and ramaswamy are gone. Pence just will never resonate, so he's done.

 

The dark horse emerging from this will be....

 

....Chris Christie.

 

He's tough enough to overcome both Bridgegate and Fattygate. He's an (R), but a genuine moderate. He would be able to work with the other side of the aisle, even in the House. Biden has worked well with the other side of the aisle in the Senate, but the House is full of lunatics on the (R) side, many of whom will go down in flames with trump, and may well face their own indictments for participating in the attempted coup. Christie, if he won, would be able to work with what is likely to be a Dem majority Senate and House in 2024.

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

On this topic, here's a prediction:

 

trump will be found guilty on multiple counts both for 6 January and for the stolen documents. He will go to jail for the rest of his miserable life.

 

Candidates who sucked up to him will be viewed as immoral, as they would be supporting a convicted sex offender, a convicted charity fraudster, a convicted felon who tried to overthrow US democracy, and a convicted felon who stole nuclear, military and intelligence secrets.

 

That means desantis, scott, haley, and ramaswamy are gone. Pence just will never resonate, so he's done.

 

The dark horse emerging from this will be....

 

....Chris Christie.

 

He's tough enough to overcome both Bridgegate and Fattygate. He's an (R), but a genuine moderate. He would be able to work with the other side of the aisle, even in the House. Biden has worked well with the other side of the aisle in the Senate, but the House is full of lunatics on the (R) side, many of whom will go down in flames with trump, and may well face their own indictments for participating in the attempted coup. Christie, if he won, would be able to work with what is likely to be a Dem majority Senate and House in 2024.

The republican party is too stupid to nominate someone like Christie.

[ozimoron]

14 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

On this topic, here's a prediction:

 

trump will be found guilty on multiple counts both for 6 January and for the stolen documents. He will go to jail for the rest of his miserable life.

 

Candidates who sucked up to him will be viewed as immoral, as they would be supporting a convicted sex offender, a convicted charity fraudster, a convicted felon who tried to overthrow US democracy, and a convicted felon who stole nuclear, military and intelligence secrets.

 

That means desantis, scott, haley, and ramaswamy are gone. Pence just will never resonate, so he's done.

 

The dark horse emerging from this will be....

 

....Chris Christie.

 

He's tough enough to overcome both Bridgegate and Fattygate. He's an (R), but a genuine moderate. He would be able to work with the other side of the aisle, even in the House. Biden has worked well with the other side of the aisle in the Senate, but the House is full of lunatics on the (R) side, many of whom will go down in flames with trump, and may well face their own indictments for participating in the attempted coup. Christie, if he won, would be able to work with what is likely to be a Dem majority Senate and House in 2024.

I think it's reasonable to anticipate that Trump voters will defect to Christie rather than DeSantis if Trump goes down. The others are just MAGA and can't win the general.

Edited August 4, 2023 by ozimoron

[watthong]

20 pages plus in, let's have a breather and take stock - 

 

This thread is probably one of numerous US Dem around the world on-line non-stop parties, popping out champagne one indictment to the next, sleepless and existing on popcorn. We've been grinning ear2ear and don't mind the pesky gatecrashers. Their noisy squirming under humiliation is the icing on our "reconciliation" cake. A whackamole game for us whenever they open their mouth. Poor things, brains gone mush, no longer knowing what's right or wrong, no hope for redemption or absolution for their master, who now has to bear the indignities of being subdued by the hands of the law time and again for the whole world to see. (How do you feel Trump, being at the beck and call of a humble public servant such as Jack Smith, a man of way less words and power than you once did?)

 

They can't stand the sound of justice coming, reality is catching up with them, grabbing them by the neck. Their fate is worse than rats on a sinking ship. At least the little rodents are wise enough to follow one human golden rule, "It's better to be thought of as fools, than open one's mouth and drink Trump kook-aid." 

[Danderman123]

2 hours ago, BarraMarra said:

All this Topic is about is He said this, he said that He did this, he did that, how long's this silly Thread going on? 

This thread is about what a US president did.

 

[Danderman123]

25 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The republican party is too stupid to nominate someone like Christie.

Christie would have a reasonable chance of beating Biden, if nominated.

[candide]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

And Russian interference 555. Were they ever called out on  that?

So talking about Rusiian interference is comparable to trying to overturn elections? Are you kidding?

BTW  there was Russian interference  according to Barr's DOJ and according to the GOP Senate committee. How it may have impacted elections results is a subject of discussion.

[Neeranam]

35 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Christie would have a reasonable chance of beating Biden, if nominated.

I really think anyone has a reasonable chance. 

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

The republican party is too stupid to nominate someone like Christie.

The whole party is stupid? 556

[pomchop]

11 hours ago, Berkshire said:

Amazing that I said the exact same thing.....

 

[Republicans, our democracy depends on your willingness to read the Trump indictment | Opinion

The Kansas City Star Editorial Board]

[It explains, in great detail, how Trump knew from his own people that he had lost the election. And how, based on claims that even he knew to be “crazy,” he tried through various schemes to stay in power anyway.]

[Virtually all of the facts set out in the document were revealed by not just other Republicans, but by Republicans appointed and employed by Donald Trump.]

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/republicans-democracy-depends-willingness-read-211625273.html

 

It is obvious that many of the frequent posters on this forum have not yet read the indictment...it is only 45 pages and can easily be read in less than an hour...but they spend more than an hour reading this forum and throwing out all the what about biden and witch hunt crap rather than read the darn indictment so they might have some clue as to what their fellow trumpers who were hired or appointed by trump had testified under oath what actually happened...every single witness is a republican but somehow those incompetent democrats have figured out how to get them all to tell a bunch of lies, under oath, to even include trumps own lapdog mike pence to make it a "witch hunt".

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, bignok said:

Biden dictatorship using laws from 1870.

And witnesses who are all republicans, hand picked members of Trump’s administration and members of Trump’s family.