Trump charged with four counts over 2020 election

[Danderman123]

41 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Thankfully, your opinion doesn't count as fact.

Has Donald Trump ever told a lie?

[watthong]

10 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Has Donald Trump ever told a lie?

Never! He's "too honest" for that... (only pleading the 5th to the tune of 400+ times in one sitting.)

[scottiejohn]

56 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Has Donald Trump ever told a lie?

He will lie under oath and say he has never told a lie!

[traveller101]

7 hours ago, xylophone said:

Therein lies the rub.........was it sarcasm or did the poster actually believe what he wrote??

For the record it is sarcasm - I'm not  yet braindead nor brainwashed to the eleventh degree.

[watthong]

38 minutes ago, traveller101 said:

For the record it is sarcasm - I'm not  yet braindead nor brainwashed to the eleventh degree.

Inadvertently a totally palatable translation of 3rd Indictment in readable form to the MAGA crowd: succinct, easy to understand and most importantly, citing all the proper charges - and the "real criminal" (Biden).

[still kicking]

77-year-old billionaire and presidential candidate Donald Trump is facing a whopping 561 years in prison as he faces multiple criminal charges.

Donald Trump facing 561 years in prison over multiple criminal charges | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site

[Tug]

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Thankfully, your opinion doesn't count as fact.

Well let’s put it this way then with facts as to citizen trump #1 he is a New York City trust fund baby (fact) he was a good looking young man in his youth (I’d say yes) ok here we go with the facts of what he did with those incredible gifts that life has given him.he robbed his charity (fact)he insults pows and disparaged people who served (fact) separated little kids from their parents (fact)stabbed our Allie’s in the guts over nato issues (fact)possibly emboldened puten to invade Ukraine .scam university ( fact) mis managed the covid response costing  thousands of American lives (fact) exploded the deficit (fact) continues to undermine the country our institutions and democracy (fact)he’s finally at long last going to face consequences for his actions based on FACTS and yes he is indeed of the lowest character possible backed up by what he has done with the incredible gifts given him

[pomchop]

14 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

You don't seem to realise that an indictment is not a statement of facts, it's just an accusation!

Do you really think that jack smith would just make up a bunch of testimony from republicans and put them in quotation marks if he did not have that testimony nailed down with video and texts of the actual testimony?  Do you think he would be stupid enough to make any allegation without having the receipts to back it up in court?  Do you think the grand jury would have indicted on a bunch of theories?  Do you think jack smith or the DOJ would go forward with something that they were not almost 100% sure can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law that would make it all look like a hit job?

 

Take a look at Jack Smith. Does he appear to be a guy that just pulls stuff out of his rear end like the defendant?   Read the indictment which does not even include all of the evidence he has, just the highlights.

 

Unlike repubs who scream witch hunt and lock em up and rigged election with no evidence, Jack dots the i's and crosses the t's.....

[pomchop]

4 hours ago, watthong said:

Never! He's "too honest" for that... (only pleading the 5th to the tune of 400+ times in one sitting.)

Donald Trump:  "only guilty people plead the fifth"....from his mouth, on tape.

[candide]

The guy is obviously not happy! 

(Sorry mods, the original text is in caps)

"NO WAY I CAN GET A FAIR TRIAL, OR EVEN CLOSE TO A FAIR TRIAL, IN WASHINGTON, D.C. THERE ARE MANY REASONS FOR THIS, BUT JUST ONE IS THAT I AM CALLING FOR A FEDERAL TAKEOVER OF THIS FILTHY AND CRIME RIDDEN EMBARRASSMENT TO OUR NATION,  WHERE MURDERS HAVE JUST SHATTERED THE ALL TIME RECORD, OTHER VIOLENT CRIMES HAVE NEVER NEEN WORSE, AND TOURISTS HAVE FLED. THE FEDERAL TAKEOVER IS VERY UNPOPULAR WITH POTENTIAL AREA JURORS, BUT NECESSARY FOR SAFETY, GREATNESS, & FOR ALL THE WORLD TO SEE!"

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-freaks-over-pelosis-sad-161511234.html

 

[Dave0206]

5 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Thankfully, your opinion doesn't count as fact.

You of course are quite right I exaggerated with the % ( not something your hero would ever do ?) Of course being a stickler for facts you must agree a disproportionate amount of ex "only the best people" did not give trump glowing appraisal and any fair minded person would agree ???? ???? 

[bendejo]

14 hours ago, traveller101 said:

After going through 25 pages of comments about Trumps character traits in light of various indictments and his suitability to once again reside in the White House .... all those who regard the honourable Mr. Trump as 

an upstanding citizen, a honest man, an excellent or even the best economic Manager ever, only concerned with the wellbeing of fellow citizens, upholding America's democratic principles and the Constituition at all times -

please vote in the Affirmative.

All others, which can only be described as extreme left looneys, Marxists, Socialists, please Abstain from voting.

Note:

Mr. Trump unfairly lost the last election because a mere additional 11'779 votes could not be found in Georgia among other irregularities, and presently being relentlessly pursued by the FBI and DOJ - agencies weaponized by the real criminal (Biden).

Thank you

Votes are cast by individual voters.  They are not found like seashells.

Who is this Trump you mention, an upstanding citizen, a honest man, an excellent or even the best economic Manager ever, only concerned with the wellbeing of fellow citizens, upholding America's democratic principles and the Constituition at all times?  It is definitely not POTUS 45.

 

[pomchop]

From those almost all selected and appointed by trump as the "best and brightest" who served under him and knew him up close and personal.....42 of 44 cabinet members and various others in his orbit don't think very highly of "mr. perfect"....and yet millions who never met the man, never worked for him, never observed him except in rallies and on TV refuse to accept that he was a HORRIBLE president.  When 42 of 44 of your closest advisors publicly state that he was bad news knowing full well they will be attacked by the cult you might want to listen to those people who know him best rather than a jesse waters, sean hannity,lydnsey graham, mccarthy, or internet trolls and biden haters.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/04/politics/officials-who-criticized-donald-trump/index.html

[bendejo]

Word has leaked into the US mediasphere that DT's lawyers were expecting the charges to be about the rally before the Capitol attack, about the inciting language, the noose, and so on.  Seems the fake electors charges caught them off guard.  Only the best people . . .

Here's what I'm waiting for:

recall the story Cassidy Hutchinson conveyed about DT wanting to go to the Capitol, grabbed the steering wheel, etc?  I don't believe that happened, I think DT cooked that up for the sake of the MAGA crowd, an "I wanted to be there but they wouldn't let me" excuse.  The steering wheel bit is the 'laying it on too thick' part.  She wasn't in the car, the story was told to her by one of DT's handlers.

 

[jerrymahoney]

Even lies are protected speech: New Trump indictment bulldozes the First Amendment

BY JONATHAN TURLEY, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR - 05/AUG/23 

 

The latest federal indictment of former President Donald Trump was handed down this week with all of the authority of papal infallibility. Pundits lined up to proclaim that case as the greatest prosecution in history.

 

(skip) In order to secure convictions for this, Special Counsel Jack Smith would need to bulldoze through not just the First Amendment but also existing case law holding that even false statements are protected.

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/4137650-even-lies-are-protected-speech-new-trump-indictment-bulldozes-the-first-amendment/

[pomchop]

1 hour ago, bendejo said:

Word has leaked into the US mediasphere that DT's lawyers were expecting the charges to be about the rally before the Capitol attack, about the inciting language, the noose, and so on.  Seems the fake electors charges caught them off guard.  Only the best people . . .

Here's what I'm waiting for:

recall the story Cassidy Hutchinson conveyed about DT wanting to go to the Capitol, grabbed the steering wheel, etc?  I don't believe that happened, I think DT cooked that up for the sake of the MAGA crowd, an "I wanted to be there but they wouldn't let me" excuse.  The steering wheel bit is the 'laying it on too thick' part.  She wasn't in the car, the story was told to her by one of DT's handlers.

 

and cassidy was very specific in saying she did not personally view the grab steering wheel but one of the security guys who was in the car told her that happened.....and of course she was attacked for even telling the story but she was trying her best to share all that she saw and heard abd that certainly was worth relating what she had been told.........and we all know that a security guard or any older guy would never ever tell a pretty single gal like cassidy a few whopers to try and impress her with what an important person he was...

 

.i also doubt it happened as trump is a coward and likely was terrified that he might get his hair messed up if he really went to the capital....

[CANSIAM]

Possibly Mr. Pence's ( Vise P ) testimony IF he takes the stand during trial will bury Trump.......

[Tug]

8 minutes ago, CANSIAM said:

Possibly Mr. Pence's ( Vise P ) testimony IF he takes the stand during trial will bury Trump.......

It could help to be sure that beeing said he’s allready done a pretty good job of it with his big mouth lmao ???? 

[earlinclaifornia]

17 minutes ago, CANSIAM said:

Possibly Mr. Pence's ( Vise P ) testimony IF he takes the stand during trial will bury Trump.......

He already said he won't testify at the trial. Wait and see. 

[ozimoron]

What mental illness looks like.

 

"The 'shocking and totally unexpected' loss by the U.S. Women’s Soccer Team to Sweden is fully emblematic of what is happening to the our once great Nation under Crooked Joe Biden," Trump wrote. "Many of our players were openly hostile to America - No other country behaved in such a manner, or even close. WOKE EQUALS FAILURE. Nice shot Megan, the USA is going to Hell!!! MAGA."

 

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-womens-world-cup/

[ThailandRyan]

12 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"The DOJ is not going to make accusations without facts/evidence to back them up". 

Hahahahahahaha.....!    It's got a bloody history of doing just that!

Enlighten us Lou. Please tell us about indictments made without facts or evidence to back them up.

[ThailandRyan]

34 minutes ago, earlinclaifornia said:

He already said he won't testify at the trial. Wait and see. 

News late today in the US says he has no plans ro testify but will testify if called as a witness.

 

https://abcnews-go-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/pence-plans-testify-trumps-jan-6-trial-comply/story?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&id=102056198&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=16913689241120&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fabcnews.go.com%2Famp%2FPolitics%2Fpence-plans-testify-trumps-jan-6-trial-comply%2Fstory%3Fid%3D102056198%23amp_tf%3DFrom%20%251%24s%26aoh%3D16913689241120%26referrer%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com

[jerrymahoney]

19 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Enlighten us Lou. Please tell us about indictments made without facts or evidence to back them up.

A grand jury is a group of people selected to sit on a jury that decide whether the prosecutor's evidence provides probable cause to issue an indictment. (my italics)

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/grand_jury

 

(my words) So a grand jury can say it is likely that A robbed B but does not have to say it is a fact that A robbed B.

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[traveller101]

3 hours ago, bendejo said:

Votes are cast by individual voters.  They are not found like seashells.

Who is this Trump you mention, an upstanding citizen, a honest man, an excellent or even the best economic Manager ever, only concerned with the wellbeing of fellow citizens, upholding America's democratic principles and the Constituition at all times?  It is definitely not POTUS 45.

 

Once again for starting the bleeding obvious - it is a satirical, acerbic, acid or caustic comment of the highest order.

For every fair-minded individual in possession of his mental faculties -

the one and only Real POTUS 45 is 

An abominal man, dishonest to the core, only concerned with himself, having at best scant regard to democratic principles and the Constitution.

 

[pomchop]

28 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

A grand jury is a group of people selected to sit on a jury that decide whether the prosecutor's evidence provides probable cause to issue an indictment. (my italics)

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/grand_jury

 

(my words) So a grand jury can say it is likely that A robbed B but does not have to say it is a fact that A robbed B.

 

Yes that is what we call a jury system where they sit and look and listen to all the evidence presented and they also sit and look and listen to what the defendant claims and look at any evidence that he may have...then they vote whether or not that beyond a reasonable doubt they believe he is quilty or they find a reasonable doubt and find him innocent. 

 

Nobody can ever fully predict what a jury might do sometimes in spite of overwhelming evidence of guilt...like OJ for example.  My bet is that at least one jury in one of the several trials will indeed find donnie boy guilty....or maybe several will find him guilty of several charges but maybe not all.  I do not think he will be exonerated of all charges by all juries.  Based on the evidence thus far outlined in the speaking indictments and the defenses i have heard trumps lawyers blab about i certainly would not want to have to defend donnie...it is one thing to go on TV and blabber away about theories and quite another to have to answer charges in a court of law...trump has and continues to run his big flapping mouth and much of his statements will be shown to the jury.  Trump will never take the stand in court as he would not last ten minutes under the brutal cross examination by lawyers who would pick him and his lies apart.

 

It will also not surprise me if trump gets locked up soon for violating the judges orders about not threatening harrasing or intimidating witness...which it appears he is already doing with mike pence and continues to threaten prosecutors and judges...donnie is likely to soon find out that he is no longer president and he can't just do and say anything he pleases if it is in direct violation of court. warnings.  Or as he loves to yell "lock him up".

[jerrymahoney]

15 minutes ago, pomchop said:

then they vote whether or not that beyond a reasonable doubt they believe he is quilty or they find a reasonable doubt and find him innocent. 

The burden of proof for grand juries is "probable cause". "Beyond a reasonable doubt" is the burden of proof at trial.

 

The possible defendant submits no claims or evidence at a grand jury hearing.

Edited August 7, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[bendejo]

Hectoring and threatening the person(s) who can hold your fate is not a smart thing to do.  Yet he does.  Is it insanity yet?

 

[Tug]

13 minutes ago, bendejo said:

Hectoring and threatening the person(s) who can hold your fate is not a smart thing to do.  Yet he does.  Is it insanity yet?

 

Oh he’s a nutter all rite!

[bendejo]

46 minutes ago, traveller101 said:

Once again for starting the bleeding obvious - it is a satirical, acerbic, acid or caustic comment of the highest order.

For every fair-minded individual in possession of his mental faculties -

the one and only Real POTUS 45 is 

An abominal man, dishonest to the core, only concerned with himself, having at best scant regard to democratic principles and the Constitution.

 

Good to hear.

This kind of humor doesn't work anymore, at least not in US politics.  Look through any thread on this subject.

 

[ThailandRyan]

37 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

The burden of proof for grand juries is "probable cause". "Beyond a reasonable doubt" is the burden of proof at trial.

 

The possible defendant submits no claims or evidence at a grand jury hearing.

Yet sometimes they can and do.

 

"A defendant, or person under investigation by the Grand Jury has a right to testify in the Grand Jury. However, this right must be asserted by the defense counsel through what's called a Cross – 190.50(5) Notice (abbreviated as x-190.50 notice).Nov 17, 2020"

 

https://www.newjerseycriminallawattorney.com/criminal-process/grand-jury-overview/rights-of-accused-at-grand-jury/

 

An accused has no right to testify at a N.J. grand jury. However, the prosecutor may extend an invitation for a defendant or target of investigation to testify. Under this circumstance, a defendant will have the “privilege” of testifying provided he waives his Miranda rights and right to counsel as defense attorneys are not permitted to be present at grand jury proceedings.