Trump charged with four counts over 2020 election

[newnative]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

How sad that America, once a Democratic country that respected all voters, has spiralled down to this.  

    Sad, indeed.  And the spiral began with Trump's elevation to the presidency , over the will of the voters, who preferred Clinton by over 2 million votes.   Clinton, like Gore before her, accepted defeat and did not file 60 ridiculous lawsuits, did not spout countless lies about the election, did not try to force governors to 'find' votes, did not falsely and loudly trash the voting process, did not try to intimidate the vice-president at the time, Biden, to disregard the Constitution, and did not incite her supporters to overthrow the government.  Yes, 'how sad'.

[Walker88]

8 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Allegations?

 

Yes, here's one: trump admitted he had highly classified documents at his country club. The DoJ and FBI said the same thing. THAT is illegal. He admitted he had them, though he did offer up a silly excuse (declassified in his mind, had a 'right' to them).

 

Claiming something contrary to established law (trump had zero right to the docs, and there exists a system and procedure for declassification, so it cannot be done 'in your head') does not make him innocent.

 

He broke the law. The mere existence of the TS/SCI, SAP, Codeword, HCS and RD docs in his country club---which was found to have at least one MSS member (Ministry of State Security of the Peoples Republic of China)---is criminal. No allegation. FACT.

Also, if justice was truly fair and equitably handed out, trump would already be in jail merely for possession of those highly classified documents, just as Air Force Reserve Officer Jack Teixeira is in jail awaiting trial for taking much less sensitive documents.

[Neeranam]

9 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Allegations?

 

Yes, here's one: trump admitted he had highly classified documents at his country club. The DoJ and FBI said the same thing. THAT is illegal. He admitted he had them, though he did offer up a silly excuse (declassified in his mind, had a 'right' to them).

Do you know any others that had classified documents?

Here's a hint - some say this guy might not finish his term in office, an others want to reelect him for another 4 years. 

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, newnative said:

Sad, indeed.  And the spiral began with Trump's elevation to the presidency , over the will of the voters, who preferred Clinton by over 2 million votes.   Clinton, like Gore before her, accepted defeat

Unlike you.

The spiral began when Clinton's supporters refused to accept Trump won. 

 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

On that basis, Biden also broke the law by having classified documents in his garage. So maybe Biden should be charged under the same law.  

As has been repeatedly explained and repeatedly ignored by Trump supportes, it would have to be proven that Biden willfully violated the law. A difficult thing to prove. Where'as in Trump's case, even though he was asked by the National Archives to return the documents immediately, as specified by the law, he refused. The National Archive would have been well with its right to call on the Justice Dept at that juncture. Instead, though, they negotiated for months with Trump. When the documents were finally returned, Trump's attorney attested that all the documents were returned. It was only when the National Archives received informatio that this was a lie and that Trump had actually retained possession of classified documents, that they called in the Justice Dept. Does that clear things up for you?

[Walker88]

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I drove truck traveling with the carnival for ten years when I was a kid, before going to engineering school. 

 

What have you ever done? I'm betting you've been on the public teat your whole life. 

 

 

You bet wrong.

 

Served the US at various times as a CIA case officer. Gained an MBA from the top biz school in the US, then had a career in finance. I used many of the millions I made setting up an NGO, where I provided medical and dental care, schooling and mentoring to hundreds of underprivileged children. SEt up a program granting microloans for community start-up businesses. ALso, I took zero donations; totally self funded.

 

Yea, on the govt teat my whole life.

[placeholder]

40 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

You do know these are allegations?

Not mere uncorroborated allegations though, are they? This particular class of allegation is called an indictment.

[Walker88]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Unlike you.

The spiral began when Clinton's supporters refused to accept Trump won. 

 

I missed the part when Clinton supporters engaged in a terrorist attack against the Capitol. I must also have missed Clinton's firebrand speech on the Mall where she encouraged her supporters to march to the Capitol, "because you'll never take back your country with weakness".

 

I missed the part where Clinton worked with lawyers and sycophants to set up a system of fake electors to send to DC to obviate the will of the people and re-install her. I missed all Clinton's calls to State election officials to do things like 'just find me 11,780 votes'. I missed the part where Clinton browbeat the then VP to 'do the right thing' and not certify the election results.

 

Perhaps you can post LINKS to all of those things and help us out.

[CharlieKo]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

As has been repeatedly explained and repeatedly ignored by Trump supportes, it would have to be proven that Biden willfully violated the law. A difficult thing to prove. Where'as in Trump's case, even though he was asked by the National Archives to return the documents immediately, as specified by the law, he refused. The National Archive would have been well with its right to call on the Justice Dept at that juncture. Instead, though, they negotiated for months with Trump. When the documents were finally returned, Trump's attorney attested that all the documents were returned. It was only when the National Archives received informatio that this was a lie and that Trump had actually retained possession of classified documents, that they called in the Justice Dept. Does that clear things up for you?

Not really.  Biden had these documents as VP. VP's aren't entitled to hold classified documents. 

[Walker88]

12 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Do you know any others that had classified documents?

Here's a hint - some say this guy might not finish his term in office, an others want to reelect him for another 4 years. 

Pence and Biden inadvertently had some classified docs among their papers. Both men fully cooperated in locating and returning them.

 

trump purposely stole TS/SCI, SAP, Codeword, HCS and RD docs, and admitted he took them, offering silly excuses like "I declassified them all in my mind" and "I have a right to them" (he has zero right to them).

 

trump then lied about returning all of them, which resulted in the FBI search of his country club.

 

See the difference? Yea, I guess not. trump's vapors blind people to reality.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Walker88

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

You bet wrong.

 

Served the US at various times as a CIA case officer. Gained an MBA from the top biz school in the US, then had a career in finance. I used many of the millions I made setting up an NGO, where I provided medical and dental care, schooling and mentoring to hundreds of underprivileged children. SEt up a program granting microloans for community start-up businesses. ALso, I took zero donations; totally self funded.

 

Yea, on the govt teat my whole life.

Your vote should definitely count for more than a truck driver's.  

 

[earlinclaifornia]

2 hours ago, Berkshire said:

Sometimes I think I deplore Trump's supporters more than Trump himself.  At least Trump knows he's a lying conman doing what comes natural.  But his supporters....I don't get how their brain works.  

Exactly my take as Trump knows just where he stands and manipulates his loser followers.

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

I missed the part when Clinton supporters engaged in a terrorist attack against the Capitol. I must also have missed Clinton's firebrand speech on the Mall where she encouraged her supporters to march to the Capitol, "because you'll never take back your country with weakness".

 

I missed the part where Clinton worked with lawyers and sycophants to set up a system of fake electors to send to DC to obviate the will of the people and re-install her. I missed all Clinton's calls to State election officials to do things like 'just find me 11,780 votes'. I missed the part where Clinton browbeat the then VP to 'do the right thing' and not certify the election results.

 

Perhaps you can post LINKS to all of those things and help us out.

Clinton supporters have been holding a grudge and building up an irrational resentment for years. They are so deluded that they think their man is justified in trying to jail his political opponent. They think they are superior to Trump supporter as you highlighted in your 'truck driver' and 'MBA at Harvard' remarks. I'm confused you never mentioned 'Harvard'? 

.

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, earlinclaifornia said:

Exactly my take as Trump knows just where he stands and manipulates his loser followers.

Are you really calling 70 million American voters losers? Unbelievable! 

[Walker88]

5 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

Not really.  Biden had these documents as VP. VP's aren't entitled to hold classified documents. 

Yes, VPs can hold classified docs while serving. ALso, the behavior of Pence and Biden re classified docs is the polar opposite of trump. trump willfully stole the docs he had at his country club and subsequently lied about returning them.

 

I think you know precious little about the classification system. You just engage in sophistry.

 

I bet you didn't even know POTUS do not have a security clearance; their election is gives them the right to see classified things, albeit only while serving. As of 12:01PM on 20 January 2021, trump no longer had any right to view or possess anything classified, even at the Confidential level.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

Not really.  Biden had these documents as VP. VP's aren't entitled to hold classified documents. 

When you make such statements, do you ask yourself if it makes sense? It's nonsense. You really believe that the President can't designate who has access to classified information and who doesn't?

 

Trump overruled security officials to demand Jared Kushner get top-secret clearance, report says

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/all/report-says-trump-demanded-jared-kushner-be-given-security-clearance-n977941

 

And there's this:

The claim: Biden did not have the authority to declassify documents as vice president

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2023/01/17/fact-check-biden-had-authority-declassify-vice-president/11065345002/

 

 

[Walker88]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Your vote should definitely count for more than a truck driver's.  

 

Thank you (facetiously), but unlike trumpers, I am a firm believer in 'one person, one vote', and the majority rules.

 

That's called democracy, and until trump tried to overthrow it, it is the system under which the US operated.

 

trump and trumpers are of the view where only their votes count, and getting fewer votes than the opposition doesn't mean they lose.

[placeholder]

28 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Do you know any others that had classified documents?

Here's a hint - some say this guy might not finish his term in office, an others want to reelect him for another 4 years. 

Another case of persistent refusal to acknowledge the fact that the law specifies the the holder of the classified documents had to be willingly in possession of them. The evidence is overwhelming that such is the case for Trump. Not really any evidence that Biden or Pence willfully violated the rules.

[Neeranam]

13 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Thank you (facetiously), but unlike trumpers, I am a firm believer in 'one person, one vote', and the majority rules.

Yet, you try to ridicule those who vote differently to yourself and how you are better educated. 

As an unbiased observer in this polarity, it is rather disturbing the supremacy views by the Biden cult. While there may be a some rednecks and truck drivers and even people who can't read, there are supporters who have very good jobs and went to better universities than you did. 

Just take a look at the posts you wrote today and think about how an impartial would see them.

My last word on the matter, cult members can't debate rationally. 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Neeranam

[Walker88]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Another case of persistent refusal to acknowledge the fact that the law specifies the the holder of the classified documents had to be willingly in possession of them. The evidence is overwhelming that such is the case for Trump. Not really any evidence that Biden or Pence willfully violated the rules.

Nor did either Pence or Biden lie about returning everything. In fact, both men invited the FBI to come into their private spaces and search anywhere the authorities wanted.

 

trump, on the other hand, lied to the authorities about returning everything. He is alleged even to have told one of his quislings to erase 45 days of security footage. So sure were authorities that trump lied, they obtained a warrant and then searched his country club, where they found and removed an additional 11 boxes of classified material and other material required by law to be held by govt archivists.

[Woof999]

20 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Clinton supporters have been holding a grudge and building up an irrational resentment for years

Even if true, not even close to illegal. This thread is about what Trump did and has been indicted for doing. ie. illegal shtuff.

[Walker88]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Yet, you try to ridicule those who vote differently to yourself and how you are better educated. 

As an unbiased observer in this polarity, it is rather disturbing the supremacy views by the Biden cult. While there may be a some rednecks and truck drivers and even people who can't read, there are supporters who have very good jobs and went to better universities than you did. 

My last word on the matter, cult members can't debate rationally. 

 

 

 

 

I ridicule those who think the minority wins, or who support a traitor who is now indicted for breaking laws for the purpose of overthrowing US democracy.

 

 

[heybruce]

22 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Are you really calling 70 million American voters losers? Unbelievable! 

Only the ones who refuse to accept they lost.

[heybruce]

26 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Clinton supporters have been holding a grudge and building up an irrational resentment for years. They are so deluded that they think their man is justified in trying to jail his political opponent. They think they are superior to Trump supporter as you highlighted in your 'truck driver' and 'MBA at Harvard' remarks. I'm confused you never mentioned 'Harvard'? 

.

I see....Clinton supporters are guilty of "thought crimes".  That much worse than fake electors, pressuring state officials and the Vice President, rallying a mob and sending them to storm the Capitol, etc.

 

Is that what you think?

[heybruce]

33 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

Not really.  Biden had these documents as VP. VP's aren't entitled to hold classified documents. 

Wow!  Where did you get that misinformation?

[BKKKevin]

I don't get how the lock um up party can now embrace aspirational free speech which sounds kinda woke to me...

[placeholder]

39 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Clinton supporters have been holding a grudge and building up an irrational resentment for years. They are so deluded that they think their man is justified in trying to jail his political opponent. They think they are superior to Trump supporter as you highlighted in your 'truck driver' and 'MBA at Harvard' remarks. I'm confused you never mentioned 'Harvard'? 

.

The great thing about alleging motivesis that such allegations can't be disproven. Of course, they can't be proven either.

[Walker88]

8 minutes ago, BKKKevin said:

I don't get how the lock um up party can now embrace aspirational free speech which sounds kinda woke to me...

Glad you introduced that term. aspirational

 

trump's lawyer actually used it in an interview over the weekend. Perhaps realizing he had implied trump lied about a 'stolen election' by claiming trump has a First Amendment right to say he won, when he knew full well he lost, he has changed the verbiage.

 

Now, it's an 'aspirational claim' of winning, rather than a simple lie about winning.

 

It will be interesting to see how trump's lawyer dances in court and in what manner he tosses in 'aspirational'.

 

Everyone will know he means trump lied, but I suspect the base will still believe two diametrically opposed sides to the same story, i.e., trump liked about winning, but he won.

 

It's like the stolen classified docs case: trump declassified in his mind, but the FBI planted the docs.

 

Schrodinger's Cat.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Walker88

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

You do know these are allegations?

Are there felony indictments that don't contain allegations?

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Walker88 said:

I wonder what you cultists believe 'leftist' means?

 

The US economy consistently performs better under Dems, or "leftists". So does the stock market.

 

Not a single (R) POTUS has ever NOT presided over the start of a Recession, trump being the latest.

 

trump inherited 4.8% UE and left with UE at 6.8%. He left a Recession. He caused inflation by adding 41% to the US' accumulated National Debt since 1787, yet trump created that +41% debt in just 4 years. That's $24,000 for every American. Even with that profligacy, he left a Recession. No surprise, of course, coming from a 6-time bankrupt boy born with a silver spoon in his mouth, albeit totally lacking in talent, other than fooling the gullible.

 

Then the non-leftist trump tried to overthrow American democracy. Not good.

 

Oh, and those leftist Blue States are the net contributors to the Federal Budget, while the non-leftist Red States are the net takers, or parasites.

 

non-leftists should get down on their knees and thank the successful leftists for generating the wealth that the mouthbreathing parasitic non-leftists live off.

Ridiculous inclusion of the Covid factor into the numbers yet again. Give it a rest.