Increasing the 800K baht requirement for retirement extension?

[bigt3116]

On 8/6/2023 at 5:23 PM, DrJack54 said:

If there are ever changes to any aspect of (for example financials) then I would not for one blink think grandfathering comes into play.

Why not? They did before.

 

"

1. An alien entering the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom
   for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria :
   (a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with a deposit maintained in a bank account
   for the past three months of no less than 200,000 baht or have a monthly income of no less than 20,000 baht.
   (b) If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, an alien must have an annual fixed income
   with a deposit maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than 500,000 baht
   or have a monthly income of no less than 50,000 baht."

https://www.immigration.go.th/en/?p=14714

[mokwit]

Let's be sure people are properly retired and likely to be well behaved and not here for sex by specifying:

1) No longer capable of producing motile spermatazoa.

2) Testosterone level below 300ng/DL

3) Over 60

4) Free of any conditions that might require hospital treatment, unless they put up a bond in advance to pay any likely costs (insurance might not pay).

Edited August 10, 2023 by mokwit

[OJAS]

8 hours ago, roobaa01 said:

Gday 

Yes the clean criminal record check also apply to existing extension holder. Thailand should seek treaty cooperation to obtain info as given that most foreign criminal bike members where from Australia 

 

Wbr

Roobaa01

So how would this work in the case of those who, like myself, haven't lived in their home countries for 15 years?

[Mike Teavee]

16 hours ago, OJAS said:

So how would this work in the case of those who, like myself, haven't lived in their home countries for 15 years?

Or people like me who not only haven't lived in their home country for 16 years, but 12 of those were spent living in a country that will not provide Police Clearance certificates for non-citizens/permanent residents (Singapore).

 

 

 

 

 

[OJAS]

4 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Or people like me who not only haven't lived in their home country for 16 years, but 12 of those were spent living in a country that will not provide Police Clearance certificates for non-citizens/permanent residents (Singapore).

It strikes me that, in the case of those of us who have already lived in Thailand for several years, a Thai criminal records check would be more appropriate. But, since immigration offices are part of the Royal Thai Police, one would like to think that they would have ready access to Thai criminal records pertaining to recalcitrant foreign retirees in any event. That said, though, this is, of course, Thailand, lest we forget..........

Edited August 11, 2023 by OJAS

[drkenchso]

perhaps the hope of grandfathering is too optimistic, we don't see it in the sudden requirement of mandatory health insurance enacted and imposed on retirees in 2019, and the seven fold increase from 400000 to three million baht as required coverage. Meanwhile big joe probably think of retirement visa overhaul in the context of driving away foreign criminals. Linking only financial requirement with quality of retirees maybe one way to screen out criminals however it discriminate the less wealthy and screen out most non innocent retirees who have no interest at all to commit any offence whatsoever. Perhaps a multipronged approach can be adopted such as looking at the past job experience or skills and academic level of retiree applicants, in addition to financial criteria or bank deposit.

[drkenchso]

the root of the problem is
mandatory medical insurance
most likely could not solve the big medical fee default incurred
by foreigners as orginally planned. It is because pre
existing health problems or medical conditions arising there of are completely excluded from
protection by insurers, but it is
most likely these conditions aggravated into big problems and
incur large hospital bills. Perhaps
the effective solution for the
government is to exclude foreigners from seeking
treatment from public hospitals
or public hospitals to raise medical fees to be on par with private hospitals so that no more implicit indirect subsidy to
foreigners or foreign retirees is
possible. And why not suspend visas to those actually default medical bills?

[drkenchso]

i guess expat retiree here better
prepared for the increase in every
aspects than hiding the heads in
the sand or plead that it won't
happan. The drastic increase in
elite visa seem to point in the
inflation direction. As to whether
expats will leave in batches
because of increased
requirement, it is a calculated
risk for the authority. The
mandatory health insurance is a
peculiar issue, strictly speaking, it
is implemented allegedly due to
request from the health
department to immigration to
solve the expat incurring/
defaulting hospital large bills (i
don't know how possible)

[drkenchso]

Meanwhile big joe probably
think of retirement visa
overhaul in the context
of driving away foreign
criminals. Linking only
financial requirement
with quality of retirees
maybe one way to screen
out criminals however
it discriminate the less
wealthy and screen out
most non innocent retirees
who have no interest at
all to commit any offence
whatsoever. Perhaps a
multipronged approach can
be adopted such as looking
at the past job experience
or skills and academic level
of retiree applicants, in
addition to financial criteria
or bank deposit.

[lamyai3]

11 hours ago, drkenchso said:

Perhaps a
multipronged approach can
be adopted such as looking
at the past job experience
or skills and academic level
of retiree applicants, in
addition to financial criteria
or bank deposit.

A curriculum vitae for a visa that doesn't allow you to work!!? 

[mokwit]

12 hours ago, drkenchso said:

Meanwhile big joe probably
think of retirement visa
overhaul in the context
of driving away foreign
criminals. Linking only
financial requirement
with quality of retirees
maybe one way to screen
out criminals however
it discriminate the less
wealthy and screen out
most non innocent retirees
who have no interest at
all to commit any offence
whatsoever. Perhaps a
multipronged approach can
be adopted such as looking
at the past job experience
or skills and academic level
of retiree applicants, in
addition to financial criteria
or bank deposit.

Perhaps some of AN's self styled "Good" Falangs could come in and tell us what the criteria are for "Good" Falangs? What should the Thai authorities be looking for - the qualities that make a "Good" Falang in your view?.  I suspect the Thai's idea of a "Good" Falang might be different from yours, but let's hear it.

 

Note: I don't think 'taken the trouble to learn the language and integrate' would be on the Thai Authorities list, despite what some think.

Edited September 10, 2023 by mokwit

[mokwit]

12 hours ago, drkenchso said:

Perhaps
the effective solution for the
government is to exclude foreigners from seeking
treatment from public hospitals
or public hospitals to raise medical fees to be on par with private hospitals so that no more implicit indirect subsidy to
foreigners or foreign retirees is
possible.

Anutin as Health Minister told Government hospitals to charge foreigners more.

[MrMuddle]

As far as I know this whole topic is pure speculation / clickbait. I've had two serious operations here, over the past 12 years, one involving organ removal, and the other for prostate removal. Neither came anywhere near 800,000 baht, and yes I went to private Hospitals in both cases. So why would the Thai Government increase the 800,00 Bank deposit for retirees? Calm down!

[Adumbration]

48 minutes ago, MrMuddle said:

As far as I know this whole topic is pure speculation / clickbait. I've had two serious operations here, over the past 12 years, one involving organ removal, and the other for prostate removal. Neither came anywhere near 800,000 baht, and yes I went to private Hospitals in both cases. So why would the Thai Government increase the 800,00 Bank deposit for retirees? Calm down!

To prop up failing banks.

[david555]

2 hours ago, MrMuddle said:

As far as I know this whole topic is pure speculation / clickbait. I've had two serious operations here, over the past 12 years, one involving organ removal, and the other for prostate removal. Neither came anywhere near 800,000 baht, and yes I went to private Hospitals in both cases. So why would the Thai Government increase the 800,00 Bank deposit for retirees? Calm down!

So why would the Thai Government increase the 800,00 Bank deposit for retirees? Calm down!

 

 

 

Well , i would not like it become hogher than 800K , but if we all are honest , those 800K from that first time demanded is not worth the same value 800K any more now.....or did we not get our pensions higher ? (indexations ) , those of us who receive rent of property's from home country renters , or you kept them 13 years same ? , workers got  all those years compensations for higher costs of living / food / rent .

 

From 2008 it was i guess that 800K was demanded .....so almost 15 years the same up to now ..... so it is not unreasonable Thai gov. could /would increase

 

If not now ....keep in mind it shall come future time , so best prepare and preserve your finances for that moment instead getting a "panic attack" that moment arrives .....

 

But we might be "grandfathered " ???? ????

Edited September 10, 2023 by david555

[Pattaya57]

Thread is total gossip. Asean Now has become the place of rumours and false news allowing 6 pages of responses to rubbish

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Pattaya57

[david555]

7 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

Thread is total gossip. Asean Now has become the place of rumours and false news allowing 6 pages of responses to rubbish

 

And for the "ostrich foreigners ", sand enough on the beach ☺️

[ThaiLawOnline]

Always been grandfathered before, I think last raise in October 1998.

200,000 to 800,000. Attached are the police order 777/2251 of 2008 that I translated with my assistant. The red part was an addition of some new things, but you can see the 200,000 for the ones before October 1998.

 

 

 

[lamyai3]

4 hours ago, ThaiLawOnline said:

Always been grandfathered before, I think last raise in October 1998.

The raise was in 2003, the grandfathering was for those who'd been on extensions at least 5 years prior. 

[Shop mak]

11 hours ago, david555 said:

so it is not unreasonable Thai gov. could /would increase

However most export except rice, has been down last 11 months, reported weekly by the local news.

Arrival numbers are much lower than predicted.

The time to increase is not now.

 

Even a small increase from 800k to 1M for retirement, would see a significant drop in expat community.

 

* Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Philippines doesn't have these 400/800k criterias, so single expats on retirement have alternatives.

 

11 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

Thread is total gossip. Asean Now has become the place of rumours and false news allowing 6 pages of responses to rubbish

 

Agree, and some people are very concerned (sleepless) if they can continue their life here in Thailand, due to endless scare mongering by some.

 

Stay calm and stop read obvious rumours.

 

Just prepare a Plan B if you haven't done it, years ago.

[hotandsticky]

16 minutes ago, Shop mak said:

However most export except rice, has been down last 11 months, reported weekly by the local news.

Arrival numbers are much lower than predicted.

The time to increase is not now.

 

Even a small increase from 800k to 1M for retirement, would see a significant drop in expat community.

 

* Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Philippines doesn't have these 400/800k criterias, so single expats on retirement have alternatives.

 

Agree, and some people are very concerned (sleepless) if they can continue their life here in Thailand, due to endless scare mongering by some.

 

Stay calm and stop read obvious rumours.

 

Just prepare a Plan B if you haven't done it, years ago.

 

 

I disagree about "a significant drop in expat community".................. quite simply, more will just use agents.

[Mike Teavee]

5 hours ago, ThaiLawOnline said:

Always been grandfathered before, I think last raise in October 1998.

As has been mentioned already, mandatory Health Insurance wasn't grandfathered for existing Non-IMM OA holders nor was the requirement to keep 800K in the bank for 5 months (2 before extension, 3 after)  & not go below 400K at any point in the year for existing Non-IMM O & OA holders - Although this technically wasn't an increase to the required amounts, people now need to keep spending money in the bank on top of the 800/400K so in reality there was an increase.   

 

BUT I think the biggest area of concern for some would be a clampdown on "Agent Assisted Financed" extensions (something which Big Joke hinted at in the original news item & was the intent behind the changes to the 800K/400K rules which he introduced) and that could see a lot of people heading for the door. 

 

Personally I can't see it happening, nor would I wish it on anybody, but if I was in that position I would be thinking about a "Plan B"...  Just in case.

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

31 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

BUT I think the biggest area of concern for some would be a clampdown on "Agent Assisted Financed" extensions (something which Big Joke hinted at in the original news item & was the intent behind the changes to the 800K/400K rules which he introduced) and that could see a lot of people heading for the door. 

 

 

It's kind of pointless having the rule about the income/money in the bank when it just fuels corruption and allows some immigration officers & agents to enrich themselves.

[phetphet]

On 8/2/2023 at 6:58 PM, JensenZ said:

Here's the relevant Pattaya News Quote:

 

"As part of the efforts, Pol Gen Surachate promised that he would propose an amendment to the immigration law, especially concerning retirement visa extensions, through the police chief once a new government takes office. This aims to filter out bad people and make the law truly helpful for investors or someone who innocently want to live in Thailand."

Well Big Joke seems to have a thing about foreigners. Remember when he was with immigration before he upset someone?

I see today that he is being mentioned as the possible new Police Chief.

So hopefully not, but expect the worst. 

[BenStark]

7 minutes ago, phetphet said:

Well Big Joke seems to have a thing about foreigners. Remember when he was with immigration before he upset someone?

What I remember from when he was with immigration, is that he made a lot of improvements for foreigners.

 

Chiangmai, no endless queues anymore after he got involved.

 

Tips, under the table money, outlawed.

 

Think his next step was weeding out the agents, and that is probably where he stepped on someones toes

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

I disagree about "a significant drop in expat community".................. quite simply, more will just use agents.

The obvious first step would be for them to stop the agent route but BJ tried that and failed miserably 

[Shop mak]

3 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

I disagree about "a significant drop in expat community".................. quite simply, more will just use agents.

That is what BJ might attempt again, to stop it at last. Will he succeed this time?

 

My expat friends have between 850k to 1,4M pension. If retirement would jump from 800k to 1,5 million, they would all have to move to another country. Since my friends and I have discussed this many times, all have their plan B prepared.

 

Rumour mill and scare mongering doesn't make us sleepless.

 

[ThaiLawOnline]

This is Thailand. They tried to stop preferred shares. Foreign chambers of commerce complained, they back off.

 

They tried to forbid  passengers in the back of pickups. People complained and they back off.

 

They started to enforce TM30, i complained with other foreigners and they eased the law in 2020.

 

They need foreigners to stay in Thailand. But they think Chinese, Indians and Russian might bring more money. Up to them. Do not be scared on rumours. Prostitution is still illegal in this country and they legalize marijuana so fast that I have no idea what was their intention. Bribes? Who knows…

 

 

[david555]

So in 1998 they higher it to 800 K......an we are now 2023 ...so 25 years same 800K ....and we all keep thinking it does not come one day increased .....????

 

So  compare we all have our earnings on the 1998 level still and same for prices of needings now  ? ......Amazing logic ....

 

Do not forget to take your  head out the sand some times .....????

Edited September 11, 2023 by david555

[scubascuba3]

9 minutes ago, david555 said:

So in 1998 they higher it to 800 K......an we are now 2023 ...so 25 years same 800K ....and we all keep thinking it does not come one day increased .....????

 

So  compare we all have our earnings on the 1998 level still and same for prices of needings now  ? ......Amazing logic ....

 

Do not forget to take your  head out the sand some times .....????

In 1998 wasn't the exchange rate baht\GBP about 80, so since then it's doubled in value, so twice as costly