Man who threatened Biden shot dead in FBI raid in Utah

[NextG]

10 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I think 'credible threat' is the point.

Housebound elderly folk can't really be much of a threat to anyone outside their house.

He wasn’t ‘housebound’. That’s just propaganda. The family state ‘largely home bound’. That doesn’t mean anything. He might spend a lot of time on his own grounds. In fact his neighbours talk about him playing with kids in neighbours years and offering to drive people home from the local church. Sounds like someone who can move around. 
I am also ‘largely home bound’, out of choice. 
It seems more like a narrative that you have pieced together to ‘confirm’ what you want to believe anyway. Ignoring the elephant in the room. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by NextG

[ozimoron]

22 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

It's just a silly selfie.

Millions of people dress up to take selfies.

Do millions of people take to facebook to threaten to assassinate presidents? Have Republicans now totally abandoned the law and order mantra they once claimed to own?

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, NextG said:

He wasn’t ‘housebound’. That’s just propaganda. The family state ‘largely home bound’. That doesn’t mean anything. He might spend a lot of time on his own grounds. In fact his neighbours talk about him playing with kids in neighbours years and offering to drive people home from the local church. Sounds like someone who can move around. 
I am also ‘largely home bound’, out of choice. 
It seems more like a narrative that you have pieced together to ‘confirm’ what you want to believe anyway. Ignoring the elephant in the room. 

He was likely too poor go out regularly. Spent all his food stamps on guns.

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I think 'credible threat' is the point.

Housebound elderly folk can't really be much of a threat to anyone outside their house.

You keep claiming he was housebound? There are reports of him attending church weekly,  “always building something for somebody in the neighborhood,” helping another neighbor with a kitchen, looking after his blind son when he took him to church.

 

One neighbor said:

“I don’t think he was actually going to drive up to Salt Lake and do anything. I just think he was fed up."

 

I don't think is not good enough when so many threats are made.

[ozimoron]

32 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I think 'credible threat' is the point.

Housebound elderly folk can't really be much of a threat to anyone outside their house.

he was largely housebound Stop worshipping this scum.

Edited August 12, 2023 by ozimoron

[ozimoron]

I'm beginning to understand how the right wing have come to idolize this scum.

 

“But this is Utah, everybody has you know conservative opinions and likes guns.”

 

The posts were deemed to show an intent to kill. 

 

“He was a boomer, and he was very political and sometimes made off-color jokes,” said Clark.

 

https://kslnewsradio.com/2028179/family-of-craig-robertson-man-shot-by-fbi-releases-statement/

 

[Hanaguma]

A number of the dangerous looking photos of Robertson are from years ago- 15 years or more from what I have read. They are nothing like he is today.  Happens a lot when people are trying to make a point- they dredge up photos to "prove" their side. In reality, he couldn't walk two blocks to church, so he drove instead. 

 

It is entirely possible that things went down just like the FBI says. We will need to see the bodycam footage to be sure. 

 

It is also possible that rousting a man out of bed and screaming at him at zero dark thirty caused him to react out of fear or anger. In a way that would not happen if they just waited a couple hours and got him when he went to collect his newspaper or mail.  This is a man who is a veteran, with no criminal record, and no reports from any neighbours of strange behavior.  Then, they drag his body out onto the street like it is some kind of trophy.

 

There is no political angle here. There IS doubt that law enforcement in the US is done so as to minimize harm and possible violent death.  Expedience triumphs. "Officer safety" is the order of the day. 

[Rotweiler]

Shucks.  Read the header too quickly (and incorrectly), I guess.  Seems Biden IS still alive.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

A number of the dangerous looking photos of Robertson are from years ago- 15 years or more from what I have read. They are nothing like he is today.  Happens a lot when people are trying to make a point- they dredge up photos to "prove" their side. In reality, he couldn't walk two blocks to church, so he drove instead. 

 

It is entirely possible that things went down just like the FBI says. We will need to see the bodycam footage to be sure. 

 

It is also possible that rousting a man out of bed and screaming at him at zero dark thirty caused him to react out of fear or anger. In a way that would not happen if they just waited a couple hours and got him when he went to collect his newspaper or mail.  This is a man who is a veteran, with no criminal record, and no reports from any neighbours of strange behavior.  Then, they drag his body out onto the street like it is some kind of trophy.

 

There is no political angle here. There IS doubt that law enforcement in the US is done so as to minimize harm and possible violent death.  Expedience triumphs. "Officer safety" is the order of the day. 

How do you know the church was only two blocks away? Because your wrong on him not having a criminal conviction before albeit from 2007.

[NextG]

8 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

A number of the dangerous looking photos of Robertson are from years ago- 15 years or more from what I have read. They are nothing like he is today.  Happens a lot when people are trying to make a point- they dredge up photos to "prove" their side. In reality, he couldn't walk two blocks to church, so he drove instead. 

 

It is entirely possible that things went down just like the FBI says. We will need to see the bodycam footage to be sure. 

 

It is also possible that rousting a man out of bed and screaming at him at zero dark thirty caused him to react out of fear or anger. In a way that would not happen if they just waited a couple hours and got him when he went to collect his newspaper or mail.  This is a man who is a veteran, with no criminal record, and no reports from any neighbours of strange behavior.  Then, they drag his body out onto the street like it is some kind of trophy.

 

There is no political angle here. There IS doubt that law enforcement in the US is done so as to minimize harm and possible violent death.  Expedience triumphs. "Officer safety" is the order of the day. 

Are all ‘veterans’ good guys? 
No reports of strange behaviour from his neighbours? Even they describe him as ‘ranting’. 
Fear or anger? He had a choice. 

[Hanaguma]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

How do you know the church was only two blocks away? Because your wrong on him not having a criminal conviction before albeit from 2007.

Ah yes, I stand corrected. A one hundred dollar fine for disturbing the peace.  16 years ago.  Obviously a violent dangerous man. 

 

The details about his church are in Rolling Stone. They say it was 200 yerds from his home to his church, and he drove. Obviously a leopard.

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/craig-robertson-fbi-utah-joe-biden-maga-1234804746/

[Hanaguma]

2 hours ago, NextG said:

Are all ‘veterans’ good guys? 
No reports of strange behaviour from his neighbours? Even they describe him as ‘ranting’. 
Fear or anger? He had a choice. 

The FBI also had a choice. Serve him his warrants in a safer manner that did not necessitate driving a mini tank through his front door at 600am. 

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

The FBI also had a choice. Serve him his warrants in a safer manner that did not necessitate driving a mini tank through his front door at 600am. 

Because people known to be in possession of fire arms who are making threats of violence are zero threat to officers issuing warrants.

 

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Ah yes, I stand corrected. A one hundred dollar fine for disturbing the peace.  16 years ago.  Obviously a violent dangerous man. 

 

The details about his church are in Rolling Stone. They say it was 200 yerds from his home to his church, and he drove. Obviously a leopard.

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/craig-robertson-fbi-utah-joe-biden-maga-1234804746/

This sums it all up from that link

 

"Trump supporters and other right-wingers have seized on his death to imply or claim that Robertson was executed for his political views — turning him into a martyr for free speech."

 

He made numerous death threats that were far beyond normal free speech and pointed a gun at the FBI along with ignoring their commands. Had he complied then he would still be alive today and at home after having been interviewed by the FBI.

[Bkk Brian]

24 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

The FBI also had a choice. Serve him his warrants in a safer manner that did not necessitate driving a mini tank through his front door at 600am. 

They didn't drive a mini tank through the front door. They shouted first “Craig Robertson, come out with your hands up! This is the FBI.”

 

When Robertson wouldn’t comply, agents attempted to break his front door down but they could not get it open. It was only then that they used a breaching vehicle to go through the window.

 

Its not like this was the first time the FBI had visited him, the previous time they had already warned him about his posts on Social Media. 

[Chomper Higgot]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I think 'credible threat' is the point.

Housebound elderly folk can't really be much of a threat to anyone outside their house.

Someone pointing a gun at a law enforcement officer is a credible threat to the law enforcement officer.

[Seth1a2a]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Someone pointing a gun at a law enforcement officer is a credible threat to the law enforcement officer.

 

 

SUNRISE, Fla. (AP) — Two FBI agents were killed and three wounded in a shooting that erupted on Tuesday when they arrived to search an apartment 

https://apnews.com/article/fbi-agents-killed-florida-4c5b7cfc67469f9954491a04fdefe96b

 

75 and harmless ?

They should have waited to see if he really was serious about killing anyone. ? 

 

How about this 72 year old guy who killed 11 and wounded 9 in January .

This was after sending a manifesto to law enforcement, according to Los Angeles County Sheriff Robert Luna.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/21/us/california-monterey-park-mass-shooter-manifesto/index.html

 

No one has a crystal ball that can accurately predict what an individual will do . Taking him on his word is a good way to hedge your bet that he just might be trying to give you a heads up warning.

 

 

[pomchop]

15 hours ago, BritManToo said:

How do you know he didn't comply?

American law enforcement often kill unarmed civilians, then claim they were threatened. (same for Brit law enforcement)

 

Have they released a complete video of the incident?

What they say after the event just can't be trusted.

that is why i used the word "allegedly" ...i have little doubt that we will get full videos released very soon and until then it is "alleged" that he aimed a gun at the FBI....

 

I do agree that very often with police raids that there could be a lot less force used where you use tactics like turn off power/water/etc and wait it out....but not sure if that applies very well to this guy who had posted pics of his aresenal online not to mention threaten to kill a bunch of high level officials....maybe the cops feared he would have explosives and blow up half the neighborhood or start shooting at random out his window trying to kill a cop or two not to mention that all his neighbors would likely be locked down for who knows how long.

 

Bottom line:  not a good idea to post death threats over and over along with pics of your arnsenal even if Trump has convinced you that you are a foot soldier.

 

 

 

[pomchop]

You post crap like this with threat of BANG and smoke em along with threats to kill the president and then refuse to comply  and allegedly pull a gun and then  get shot by FBI....but hey he did it all for the glory of MAGA so he will go to heaven and get 72 trump virgins...

 

[heybruce]

17 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I think they should have waited patiently outside in the road after disconnecting his utils & blocking his cell. No need to break into his home, but obviously easier for them to hide what happens if it's inside. The armed nutters always defend their homes, much more peaceful to get them to come out voluntarily.

 

Unfortunately the US has too many nutters with guns to lay siege on everyone making threats.  Also the guy had sniper rifles.  It only takes a little practice and competence to be dangerous at ranges of over 200 yards with a sniper rifle.  That makes your siege approach even more impractical.

 

This wasn't a no-knock warrant.  The FBI had already talked to the guy.  They had a legal warrant.  They identified themselves, knocked on the door and shouted through the door.  The guy had every chance to wake up, consider his alternatives, and surrender.  He didn't, he chose to threaten the FBI with a gun.  That's why he's dead.

[billd766]

20 hours ago, BritManToo said:

From your link, age 75 and obese (elderly and homebound)  ........ so fairly harmless IMHO.

 

From an eyewitness,

"'I don't think he was even given a chance to even see a warrant when they went in and raided house,' Bunch added." 

'As an elderly- and largely homebound-man, there was very little he could do but exercise his First Amendment right to free speech and voice his protest in what has become the public square of our age — the internet and social media,' his family also said in their statement."

I am elderly at 79 and largely homebound (my wife does the driving), but if I really needed to, I can drive the truck, carry a weapon and pull the trigger.

 

It will just take me a bit longer to get dressed for battle.

 

However, whilst I am not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, I am not the dimmest either.

 

Do I look dangerous?

 

 

[nauseus]

23 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I am elderly at 79 and largely homebound (my wife does the driving), but if I really needed to, I can drive the truck, carry a weapon and pull the trigger.

 

It will just take me a bit longer to get dressed for battle.

 

However, whilst I am not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, I am not the dimmest either.

 

Do I look dangerous?

 

 

Not in that shirt. ????

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Not in that shirt. ????

I agree, he looked way more dangerous in his battle outfit.

 

This guy is as dangerous with an AR-15 as any person could be.

 

I guess he's going to become the next folk hero to the right, same as the vigilante teenager.

Edited August 13, 2023 by ozimoron

[billd766]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Not in that shirt. ????

I have others, even some white ones from when I used to work in Bangkok in the 1990s and the early noughties.

 

The beard is because I slipped over on wet and dirty concrete last October damaging my right arm, elbow and wrist, and I was unable to shave properly.

[nauseus]

14 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I agree, he looked way more dangerous in his battle outfit.

 

This guy is as dangerous with an AR-15 as any person could be.

 

I guess he's going to become the next folk hero to the right, same as the vigilante teenager.

Sometimes it's just better not to butt in.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Sometimes it's just better not to butt in.

We keep seeing this private conversation in a public forum type comment ad nauseum. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by ozimoron

[Captain Monday]

It is disgusting what police get aways with in USA, a wash with guns

Most people who end up going on shooting sprees don't make threats on social media

I think he may have been trying to cry for help. There must come a point in the pit of conspiratorial derangement when one realizes it is all nonsense and look for a way out?

 

This poor old man simply needed to be put in a hospital for a bit and separated from his arsenal permanently. But who put these bizarre theories in his head and WHY did he think his so-called "freedom" in Provo UT required buying a sniper rifle and assault weapons?

 

Think we can blame the right-wing media sphere

 

A victim in more ways than one

[nauseus]

14 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I have others, even some white ones from when I used to work in Bangkok in the 1990s and the early noughties.

 

The beard is because I slipped over on wet and dirty concrete last October damaging my right arm, elbow and wrist, and I was unable to shave properly.

Yet, still not doing too bad for 79. Keep it up.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Captain Monday said:

It is disgusting what police get aways with in USA, a wash with guns

Most people who end up going on shooting sprees don't make threats on social media

I think he may have been trying to cry for help. There must come a point in the pit of conspiratorial derangement when one realizes it is all nonsense and look for a way out?

 

This poor old man simply needed to be put in a hospital for a bit and separated from his arsenal permanently. But who put these bizarre theories in his head and WHY did he think his so-called "freedom" in Provo UT required buying a sniper rifle and assault weapons?

 

Think we can blame the right-wing media sphere

 

A victim in more ways than one

Rubbish, most do make threats on social media. It's how they justify their relevance among other extremists.

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

We keep seeing this private conversation in a public forum type comment ad nauseum. 

It's not that. It's just that your interruption was ridiculous.