Electric car fire: Week-old million baht vehicle ignites in Udon Thani mall

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

56 fires/billion miles - ICE (US data, 100% correct) 

5 fires/billion miles - EV (US, mostly Tesla and Western brands)

90 fires/billion miles - EV (Mainly Chinese made EVs, unverified data)

 

If the below news are true, we are in for a hot ???? EV season in 2024.

To summarize, 2,720 EV fires out of 6 million registred cars. 

https://batteriesnews.com/7-battery-electric-cars-day-catch-fire-china-most-involved-brands

 

If anyone can find better and more reliable data for China, please share.

I think more data is needed, that article came from data published in Italy, that data in turn came from carnewschina

 

I am suspicious when the reported fires go from 86 in 3 years (2020-2022) ie 29/year then in 2023 we jump to 2555 based on Q1 figures extrapolated.  It doesn't sound right.

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

56 fires/billion miles - ICE (US data, 100% correct) 

5 fires/billion miles - EV (US, mostly Tesla and Western brands)

90 fires/billion miles - EV (Mainly Chinese made EVs, unverified data)

 

If the below news are true, we are in for a hot ???? EV season in 2024.

To summarize, 2,720 EV fires out of 6 million registred cars. 

https://batteriesnews.com/7-battery-electric-cars-day-catch-fire-china-most-involved-brands

 

If anyone can find better and more reliable data for China, please share.

Been driving ICEVs for almost 50 yrs, and no car fire yet.  Since they are how many times more likely to flame up ?   

 

I'm not worried about driving my newest tech, LFP Battery BEV the next 5-20 yrs, or how ever much longer I got on this rock.

 

A car fire is the least of my concerns, past, present or future.  

 

Y'all need to get over yourselves, as this thread proves.  A thread about a car fire, that never was.

 

Let that sink it ... get on with living, instead of worrying about EVs you apparently will never own.

[ExpatOilWorker]

51 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I think more data is needed, that article came from data published in Italy, that data in turn came from carnewschina

 

I am suspicious when the reported fires go from 86 in 3 years (2020-2022) ie 29/year then in 2023 we jump to 2555 based on Q1 figures extrapolated.  It doesn't sound right.

For once I 100% agree with you. Data from China is at best murky,  but this time the data are suspicious. But, why?

Why would a battery site report fake numbers?

If you come across a better and more reliable source,  please share.

China is interesting, being a testbed for EVs and having a very fragmented, they will almost certainly also experiencing the most failures. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

59 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I am suspicious when the reported fires go from 86 in 3 years (2020-2022) ie 29/year then in 2023 we jump to 2555 based on Q1 figures extrapolated. 

Covid could party explain the low 2020-22 numbers, but not the high 2023 numbers.

[JBChiangRai]

11 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

For once I 100% agree with you. Data from China is at best murky,  but this time the data are suspicious. But, why?

Why would a battery site report fake numbers?

If you come across a better and more reliable source,  please share.

China is interesting, being a testbed for EVs and having a very fragmented, they will almost certainly also experiencing the most failures. 

The battery site took their data from an Italian site

The Italian site took their data from a China Car news Site

I can't find where the China Car News Site took their data.

 

I can't see how 2022 to 2023 Q1 is a 100 fold increase and so outside the industry norms, that's why I would like to see more data.  It seems a bit fantastical to me.

 

I do have concerns about Lithium Ion/NMC batteries and at some point would like to see stats for fires in the different battery chemistries.

[ExpatOilWorker]

13 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

The battery site took their data from an Italian site

The Italian site took their data from a China Car news Site

I can't find where the China Car News Site took their data.

 

I can't see how 2022 to 2023 Q1 is a 100 fold increase and so outside the industry norms, that's why I would like to see more data.  It seems a bit fantastical to me.

 

I do have concerns about Lithium Ion/NMC batteries and at some point would like to see stats for fires in the different battery chemistries.

Do you have a link to the Chinese car news site?

It could be something as simple as a translation error.

[JBChiangRai]

8 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Do you have a link to the Chinese car news site?

It could be something as simple as a translation error.

Something is wrong, that China News site article is dated 18th April 2022 but says...

 

The Chinese media reported only 86 electric vehicle fire accidents in the past two years, averaging one accident per week. However, in the first quarter of this year, 640 electric vehicles caught on fire, a year-on-year increase of 32%, which is equivalent to an average of 7 electric cars caught on fire per day, according to the latest data released by the Chinese Fire and Rescue Department of the Ministry of Emergency Management on April 3 this year.

 

86 fires over 2 years going to 640 in 1 quarter is not a 32% increase, it's a 5,900% increase, and the 640 fires originally quoted as Q1 2023, must have been Q1 2022

 

There's something very wrong with the original article everyone is taking data from.

 

Chinese Electric Vehicles Are On Fire (carnewschina-com.translate.goog)

[RobU]

Damaged EV batteries can spontaneously ignite weeks or months after the damage has occurred. Batteries can easily  be damaged by driving over speed humps or other obstacles. Electric vehicles involved in accidents are more likely to ignite than petrol vehicles and have been known to spontaneously ignite in scrapyards months after the accident

Explainer: Are lithium-ion batteries in EVs a fire hazard? | Reuters

 

There are many other articles describing these hazards on the internet

 

Aug 23 (Reuters) - General Motors Co (GM.N) has expanded the recall of its Chevrolet Bolt electric vehicles due to a risk of fire from the pouch-type lithium-ion battery cells made by South Korea's LG

[JBChiangRai]

11 minutes ago, RobU said:

Damaged EV batteries can spontaneously ignite weeks or months after the damage has occurred. Batteries can easily  be damaged by driving over speed humps or other obstacles. Electric vehicles involved in accidents are more likely to ignite than petrol vehicles and have been known to spontaneously ignite in scrapyards months after the accident

Explainer: Are lithium-ion batteries in EVs a fire hazard? | Reuters

 

There are many other articles describing these hazards on the internet

 

Aug 23 (Reuters) - General Motors Co (GM.N) has expanded the recall of its Chevrolet Bolt electric vehicles due to a risk of fire from the pouch-type lithium-ion battery cells made by South Korea's LG

Statistics compiled by the US Government state with absolute certainty that an EV is more than 10 times less likely to catch fire than am internal combustion engine car.

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

Something is wrong, that China News site article is dated 18th April 2022 but says...

 

The Chinese media reported only 86 electric vehicle fire accidents in the past two years, averaging one accident per week. However, in the first quarter of this year, 640 electric vehicles caught on fire, a year-on-year increase of 32%, which is equivalent to an average of 7 electric cars caught on fire per day, according to the latest data released by the Chinese Fire and Rescue Department of the Ministry of Emergency Management on April 3 this year.

 

86 fires over 2 years going to 640 in 1 quarter is not a 32% increase, it's a 5,900% increase, and the 640 fires originally quoted as Q1 2023, must have been Q1 2022

 

There's something very wrong with the original article everyone is taking data from.

 

Chinese Electric Vehicles Are On Fire (carnewschina-com.translate.goog)

86 might ne the only number we can use, although it could suffer from Chinese under reporting.

Do you have the numbers for EV registration in China from 2020-22?

 

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

86 might ne the only number we can use, although it could suffer from Chinese under reporting.

Do you have the numbers for EV registration in China from 2020-22?

 

I don't, but I do know they have about 6 million EV's on the road, but again, I think that figure may have come from Q1 2022.

[ExpatOilWorker]

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I don't, but I do know they have about 6 million EV's on the road, but again, I think that figure may have come from Q1 2022.

OK, lets assume the below average for each year.

2020: 3 million 

2021: 5 million

Covid will severely distort the milage number, so I only give them 3,000 km/vehicle/year.

The 86 reported fires ???? then give us:

5.7 EV fires/billion miles.

Spot on the same as the US numbers and 10 times lower then ICE.

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

19 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

I would have thought that a car catching fire, leading to a RoRo ship carrying several hundreds (thousand?) Itself burning, would constitute a significant number - and possibly lead to higher premiums, if only for the shippers, and very likely reflected throughout the spectrum of insurance.

Again, just to reiterate - there is still no evidence that the fire on the ship was caused by an EV. At least one report seemed to indicate that the fire started on a deck where there no EV's (although its claim that no EV's were burnt seems to be wide of the mark).

 

Still, the cause of the fire remains unknown.

[RobU]

33 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Statistics compiled by the US Government state with absolute certainty that an EV is more than 10 times less likely to catch fire than am internal combustion engine car.

I supplied evidence of my statement via a reputable reporting agency please direct me to the government website or reputable reporting that makes this claim

[GroveHillWanderer]

18 hours ago, kennw said:

Insurance rates on EVs is higher because even the slightest damage to the battery module means replacement.

That is categorically untrue. As mentioned in the article linked to below:

 

Quote

Another thing that battery repair centers can do is replace individual cells. This is usually only necessary if a cell is damaged beyond repair. Once the cell is replaced, the battery will be as good as new

Can EV Batteries Be Repaired? How Battery Repair Centers Extend The Life Cycle Of Your EV Battery

 

It does also point out that:

 

Quote

In some cases, it may be necessary to replace the entire battery.

However that is, as it says, by no means true in all cases.

[ExpatOilWorker]

34 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Statistics compiled by the US Government state with absolute certainty that an EV is more than 10 times less likely to catch fire than am internal combustion engine car.

A resounding YES to EVs are a factor 10 less likely to catch fire than ICE and it is refreshing that you are no longer parading the below EV propaganda. Welcome to free thinkers club.

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

18 hours ago, kennw said:

What a lot of crap some people are going on with. The car was stationary. It was being charged at Level 3 station. what charge rate did he select?. Problem is Lithium battery, need to follow correct procedure. Just as you need to do when filling an ICE car.  

The problem was not with the Lithium battery. According to all available evidence, including the reports, photos and the initial investigation, the problem occurred under the hood, in the wiring of the 12V lead-acid battery.

[JBChiangRai]

25 minutes ago, RobU said:

I supplied evidence of my statement via a reputable reporting agency please direct me to the government website or reputable reporting that makes this claim

You will find it posted by me on this thread, start at page 1, you'll find it quickly.

[JBChiangRai]

27 minutes ago, RobU said:

I supplied evidence of my statement via a reputable reporting agency please direct me to the government website or reputable reporting that makes this claim

see below

 

22 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

A resounding YES to EVs are a factor 10 less likely to catch fire than ICE and it is refreshing that you are no longer parading the below EV propaganda. Welcome to free thinkers club.

 

 

[KhunLA]

19 hours ago, kennw said:

What a lot of crap some people are going on with. The car was stationary. It was being charged at Level 3 station. what charge rate did he select?. Problem is Lithium battery, need to follow correct procedure. Just as you need to do when filling an ICE car.  

Do try to keep up, as the incident, (not even a fire) in the OP, had nothing to do with the main battery bank.  

[JBChiangRai]

On the subject of Level 3 parking, I have yet to see a car that allows you to select the charging rate for L3 charging.

[Fruit Trader]

On 9/5/2023 at 12:40 PM, KhunLA said:

Only if the solar system is larger than the needs of the house, then added cost would be part of the ROI, toward the EV.

 

Ours is not, as needed during rainy season. At time of contracting solar install, EV wasn't being considered, as we had just bought a new ICEV.  No intension of buying an EV, due to ignorance, and prices of.   2 yrs later, enlightened, upgrade version of, at same price & govt incentive, made it a no brainer for us.

 

So yes, our excess solar produced energy for the EV is .... FREE energy.

 

During rainy season, depending on use, the solar may not even produce enough extra for the EV, if not planning one's charging.  Not a problem for us, Having the E-MB & ebike, so no really need to have use the car.  We can wait.

 

Grid is available if impatient. 

Your personal arrangement, planning, E-bike, ICEV, bla bla bla is totally irrelevant to my argument no matter how you apply the word FREE.

 

Read and digest it slowly, you will get there in the end. I have placed the important part in bold to make it a little easier for you to catch on.

 

 

One cannot claim the power is free (no cost) until the value of electricity produced exceeds the cost of solar equipment. 

 

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

One cannot claim the power is free (no cost) until the value of electricity produced exceeds the cost of solar equipment. 

 

Actually, that depends on the accounting principles applied to that calculation.

[Fruit Trader]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Actually, that depends on the accounting principles applied to that calculation.

We can split hairs and argue with personal circumstances all day long but simple ROI rules will always win. 

 

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

We can split hairs and argue with personal circumstances all day long but simple ROI rules will always win. 

 

Marginal vs. Absorbtion, total opposites but both acceptable accounting principles.

[Jelli]

EVs most moronic of gadgets. Even hybrids are daft.

 

Expect this to fall into the catagory of not news bc it happens daily

[ExpatOilWorker]

5 minutes ago, Jelli said:

EVs most moronic of gadgets. Even hybrids are daft.

 

Expect this to fall into the catagory of not news bc it happens daily

It will be news in gossip loving ❤️ Thailand for many more exciting and flaming years to come.

Currently there are about 35,000 EVs registered in Thailand, make that 50,000 on average in 2024 and we should expect to see 1.4 EV fires/year. 

Beyong statistical notmal variation, higher numbers than that and we need to have a closer look at these gadgets again ????.

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

higher numbers than that and we need to have a closer look at these gadgets again ????.

Correction, higher numbers than that and we need to have a closer look at these moronic gadgets again

[Fruit Trader]

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Marginal vs. Absorbtion, total opposites but both acceptable accounting principles.

I think you already know my argument is against those who choose to use the word free without being specific. If ROI is more complex than a simple price per unit calculation then it's important to explain how this will speed up payback. Best to keep it simple on forums where not everyone wants to get involved with costing methods.
 

[JBChiangRai]

Just now, Fruit Trader said:

I think you already know my argument is against those who choose to use the word free without being specific. If ROI is more complex than a simple price per unit calculation then it's important to explain how this will speed up payback. Best to keep it simple on forums where not everyone wants to get involved with costing methods.
 

Fair enough but I view my EV charging as free, because if I charge it or don't charge it on my solar, the cost is the same.  And I didn't install my solar intending to charge an EV, I bought the EV afterwards.