Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[h3ith]

13 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Also this seems a little bit odd considering it's September 18 today :

The date in the order seems to be handwritten, so Google Translate is struggling with it 

[sirineou]

45 minutes ago, bob smith said:

Indeed.

 

the article seems more aimed at Thais earning income abroad than foreigners bringing money in.

I wish that was true but the article states

"It is unclear at this point how this will apply to foreigners living in Thailand on a retirement visa.
This is a developing story and will be subject to update. "

 

or how about those living here on a marriage visa.? 

 

In other words , we don't know one way or another, So stay tuned. 

[jaideedave]

3 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

As if we needed to be reminded of how tenuous our position is here. The Thais can change the rules and do what they like. If they do this the new rules will be typically well thought out in true Thai manner. Total chaos and a lot of departing farang will result, taking our money with us. Does anyone remember the dreaded tax clearance certificate that one had to obtain from the Thai tax dept before immigration would allow us out of the country. Cambodia begins to look more appealing.

Yup...see you there,seriously thinking of moving  if they keep moving the goal posts.I have visited Cambodia many times over the years. Not my 1st choice but I will make do just fine without all the red tape here now and in the future.Far too soon to make any moves just yet though. 

[VinnieK]

6 hours ago, ezzra said:

 

They won't see a penny from me.

I will vote with my feet if we get to that point.

[RupertIII]

35 minutes ago, Hokeus said:

Also, any payment that can be made in Thailand using a debit or credit card can simply be made using a Wise debit card. Then the money never has to even be physically transferred in. 

Last I saw Wise wasn't issuing debit/ATM cards to those living in Thailand, or has that now changed?

[dr_lucas]

What about capital gain from abroad? Such as profits from stock market and/or commodities investments in other countries? 

[Felton Jarvis]

Many of us will be saying “Hello” to Hun Manet. Cambodia has looked good for quite a while. Easy terms, minimal paperwork.

[h3ith]

1 minute ago, RupertIII said:

Last I saw Wise wasn't issuing debit/ATM cards to those living in Thailand,

No, hasn't changed. If your registered your Thai address with them, they don't issue a (new) debit card. They included Malaysia recently. TH, perhaps in 10 years?

[Mike Teavee]

4 hours ago, JackGats said:

Reading this news I'm glad my LTR visa includes a non-tax clause for anything earnt out of Thailand. It couldn't have come at a better time.

Guys In the LTR Visa thread seem to have some concerns about it... 

 

Post contains a link to a Thai Enquirer article that seems to give a different take on what the new regulations cover/target... 

https://www.thaienquirer.com/50748/new-tax-regulations-raises-questions-and-concerns/

 

[Foxx]

1 hour ago, 747man said:

  7 hours ago, connda said:

Eventually someone is going to write, "Does that mean farang's pension income too."

Short answer would probably be "No," at least for those countries with bilateral tax agreements with Thailand.

It's a bit more complex than there being a tax agreement in place.  The UK Double Tax Agreement (DTA) does not cover state or pension income, so even now it would be possible for someone to pay tax on their pension both in the UK and Thailand with no relief.  Of course, the UK DTA does cover government pensions - pensions paid to former civil servants and the like.  Funny that the civil servants cover themselves, but are perfectly happy to screw the little people.

[h3ith]

3 minutes ago, dr_lucas said:

What about capital gain from abroad? Such as profits from stock market and/or commodities investments in other countries?

Current law: not taxable if you remit it to TH in the next calendar year: remittance principle.

 

The text of this new order does not clearly separate financial income from employment and business income. Foreign employment income is always taxable, whether or not the amount is transferred to TH. If they want to cancel the remittance principle for financial income, I'd imagine that the parliament would have to change the tax law. But this order just cites the current law. 

[Jenkins9039]

https://www.thaienquirer.com/50748/new-tax-regulations-raises-questions-and-concerns/ 

[homeseeker]

Question: As the law currently stands in Thailand if I send money from overseas to my Thai bank account in Thailand the bank is not allowed to inform the Thai revenue dept?

 

Correct or not?

[10baht]

6 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

"Tax resident" and their definition of same may be the key here.

In Thailand, an individual is considered a tax resident if they have lived in the country for at least 180 days or more in a year¹. Such residents are liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as foreign sources brought into Thailand¹. Non-tax residents are subject to tax only on Thai-sourced income¹.

[Dogmatix]

1 hour ago, Thorgal said:

1. Your pension will be automatically taxed in the country of origin.

2. If you reside more than 183 days in Thailand you can claim back the taxes you've paid in your home country

3. Your monthly pension in Thailand can be seen as "world income" if you pay it directly from your pension fund to Thailand. In that case you will have to pay income tax in Thailand based on your pension brought into Thailand.

4. If your pension has been first paid on your private overseas bank account, then it won't be considered as "world income" and not be subjected to Thai income tax.

 

Thai "world income" tax ruling is a different specific case and not subjected to the double tax treaty with other countries.

 

The problem is that this is a vague order of a couple of paragraphs to Revenue Department officers announcing a major change to the treatment of overseas sourced income with no guidelines as to how to implement it. You are making assumptions based on practice in other countries which may well be different from the assumptions the Revenue Department chooses to make. 

[Dogmatix]

10 minutes ago, homeseeker said:

Question: As the law currently stands in Thailand if I send money from overseas to my Thai bank account in Thailand the bank is not allowed to inform the Thai revenue dept?

 

Correct or not?

I don't think that is correct. There is no banking secrecy law in Thailand and government agencies seem to have no trouble in getting information about people's banking transactions, e.g. the police do it frequently. So why not the RD?  Remittances over a certain amount are also automatically reported to the Bank of Thailand for anti-money laundering purposes.  I think you should assume that the RD will be able to get assess to any remittance information it wants and may even set up a system of automatic reporting like the Bank of Thailand has.

[Dogmatix]

31 minutes ago, dr_lucas said:

What about capital gain from abroad? Such as profits from stock market and/or commodities investments in other countries? 

Now will be taxable whenever it is remitted to Thailand.

[tomazbodner]

1 hour ago, h3ith said:

"Any year" could be a translation flaw. Imagine accumulating capital gains, interest or dividends for 20 years, and then transferring 5% of it to TH? How could anyone sort out how much of the incoming amount was based on financial income over the previous 20 years as opposed to original savings?

I imagine the revenue office may demand evidence that the incoming amount was not work or business income. And that it was not financial income earned in the current year. Which would be burdensome enough. But "any year" for 10 or 20 past years, for all incoming bank transfers, would be absurd.

Has something being absurd ever stopped being put into law?

[daejung]

7 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

Thailand to tourists—please come.

Thailand to expats—please leave.

What about tourists transferring money to their bank account in Thailand ? They speak  about tax residents so people that are not tax residents (generally staying more than 180 days) are not targeted.

 

As for tax residents themselves, Thailand would first have to renegotiate international tax convention signed with many countries.

Edited September 18, 2023 by daejung

[dannyb123]

2 hours ago, Thaindrew said:

The Thailand Elite Visa is listed as exempt from Tax on the IRS website

Ohhhh I didnt even realise. Now it seems like the ulterior motive of the change is to attract more high earners to the new and improved (and more expensvie) elite options

[charleskerins]

7 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

I've always thought that the guys using the >65K pm income method for their retirement extensions are leaving themselves open to having to pay tax on it.

 

Obviously some income streams like state pensions may be exempt but private pensions would seem to be fair game, even if they've already paid tax on the income in their home countries. 

Had the same thought and I was going to switch to that method -so what is considered a tax resident?  Does it depend on your visa status?

[mran66]

3 minutes ago, charleskerins said:

Had the same thought and I was going to switch to that method -so what is considered a tax resident?  Does it depend on your visa status?

Nothing to do with visa. Simply if you stay more than 180 days or more during a calendar year, you are tax resident regardless of whether you have visa of some kind or not

Edited September 18, 2023 by mran66

[billd766]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

 

That's not quite correct.

 

https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income#:~:text=Whether you need to pay,tax on your foreign income.

Well from 1999 to 2009 when I worked as a contractor offshore I only paid UK tax on my UK earnings, withholding tax in some countries, no tax in some countries, and NZ tax in my last year working in NZ for a local NZ company.

[KKra]

List of countries with double tax arrangements with Thailand in place:
 

Tax treaties

Thailand has DTTs with the following countries:

Armenia	Finland	Mauritius	Spain
Australia	France	Myanmar	Sri Lanka
Austria	Germany	Nepal	Sweden
Bahrain	Hong Kong	Netherlands	Switzerland
Bangladesh	Hungary	New Zealand	Taiwan
Belarus	India	Norway	Tajikistan
Belgium	Indonesia	Oman	Turkey
Bulgaria	Ireland	Pakistan	Ukraine
Cambodia	Israel	Philippines	United Arab Emirates
Canada	Italy	Poland	United Kingdom
Chile	Japan	Romania	United States
China	Korea, Republic of	Russia	Uzbekistan
Cyprus	Kuwait	Seychelles	Vietnam
Czech Republic	Laos	Singapore

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/foreign-tax-relief-and-tax-treaties

[Dogmatix]

48 minutes ago, h3ith said:

It's a decree or order. I'm not a Thai lawyer, but this order does not change the tax law, which should require an act of parliament.  

"Any tax year" may refer to employment income and business profit, to which the remittance principle ("next calendar year") never applied. The order text just did not bother to separate work and business income from financial income.

An act of parliament to amend the Revenue Code could introduce global taxation for Thai residents which would clear up any confusion.  

 

The PT think tank has come up with hair brained schemes like the digital wallet for Srettha to implement that are not funded in the 2023-24 budget and Srettha refuses to say where the money is coming from.  Then they plan to subsidise mass transit in Bangkok at huge cost that was designed to attract private sector investment because the government couldn't afford to build them.  They know that they will ultimately have to raise VAT but before they bite the bullet they will scrabble around trying to raise tax from anywhere.

[andre47]

40 minutes ago, dr_lucas said:

What about capital gain from abroad? Such as profits from stock market and/or commodities investments in other countries? 

If you bring these gains to Thailand you have to pay tax on it. This has not changed. Even now you have to pay tax, but now only if you bring these profits in the same year to Thailand. In future you have to pay tax on it never mind when you have earned these profits.

Edited September 18, 2023 by andre47
add

[charleskerins]

"The program will begin January 1, 2024 and apply only to tax residents in Thailand meaning tourists and short term workers will be exempt. Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand. "

(For list of countries with Double Tax Agreement please click here)

[charleskerins]

17 hours ago, charleskerins said:

"The program will begin January 1, 2024 and apply only to tax residents in Thailand meaning tourists and short term workers will be exempt. Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand. "

(For list of countries with Double Tax Agreement please click here)

click on the agreement Your country is probably on there which means you are exempt.

[Startmeup]

6 hours ago, Sheryl said:

If your remittances are from income taxed in your home country (now or in the past) and your country has a Double Tax Agreement with Thailand, it is nto taxable here.

Not quite true. It depends on the rates in your home country and the rates in Thailand. If you pay rates in your home country equal to or greater than what the rates are in Thailand then you won't be taxed. If you pay less tax then Thai tax dept will take the difference so it meets Thai taxation rates. Maybe there will be exemption for taxations on government pensions, I dont know.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Startmeup

[Tom H]

“Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand.”

 

Just understand this sentence and dont fall in a panic mode.