Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[CrossBones]

Transfer money to a gold dealer from overseas.

Collect gold from dealer in Thailand

 

Transfer money to a motor dealer from overseas

Pickup car from dealer in Thailand

 

Transfer money to an escrow account overseas, they pay property developer in Thailand

Receive ownership  of property in Thailand

 

Transfer money to a condo developer from your overseas account to their account in Thailand

Receive ownership  of property in Thailand

 

Transfer money to a condo developer from your overseas account to their overseas account,

Receive ownership  of property in Thailand

 

Dealer/condo developer is a business, not an individual. He doesn't pay tax as "income" to his account as its a business account. Of course not every international  business transaction is taxed as income. Businesses dont pay income tax, they pay tax on profits.

 

What is and what isnt allowed.??

 

 

 

Edited January 24 by CrossBones

[Mike Lister]

5 hours ago, CrossBones said:

What happens if i...

 

a) Purchase a new car from a dealer and pay them directly from my overseas account.

 

This is not my income, its is their income.

 

b) I purchase a new condo off a developer. I pay them directly from overseas.

 

The money hasnt touched my account, in either case.

 

Any ideas?

Too funny!

 

You are still paying them for something you received in return. The fact you are paying them directly from an overseas account, doesn't change that fact.

[Mike Lister]

3 hours ago, CrossBones said:

Transfer money to a gold dealer from overseas.

Collect gold from dealer in Thailand

 

Transfer money to a motor dealer from overseas

Pickup car from dealer in Thailand

 

Transfer money to an escrow account overseas, they pay property developer in Thailand

Receive ownership  of property in Thailand

 

Transfer money to a condo developer from your overseas account to their account in Thailand

Receive ownership  of property in Thailand

 

Transfer money to a condo developer from your overseas account to their overseas account,

Receive ownership  of property in Thailand

 

Dealer/condo developer is a business, not an individual. He doesn't pay tax as "income" to his account as its a business account. Of course not every international  business transaction is taxed as income. Businesses dont pay income tax, they pay tax on profits.

 

What is and what isnt allowed.??

 

 

 

Stop it!

 

Firstly, you are still receiving something that you are paying for, ergo, it is still taxable.

 

Secondly, you're flirting with discussions about tax evasion so please don't go there.

[Mike Lister]

4 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

If you first transfer the funds into your Thai bank account, and then you transfer the money to the final recipient, is the money taxable twice?

 

If the funds are for a condo, what if you transfer the money from abroad into an escrow account?

1. No.

 

2. Still taxable.

 

 

[Mike Lister]

4 hours ago, CrossBones said:

 

Its got to be the person who RECEIVED the money pays the tax. Not the person who sent it.

 

So in the case that I purchase something of value from overseas account - its the receiver that pays the tax. Otherwise its taxed twice if me remitting it into thailand is taxable (regardless of it not being remitted to myself) and the receiver has to pay tax on it (if to their personal account as income) and if the receiver is a company (ie motor trader, or condo developer) then this goes through their books, not mine.

 

 

Last one on this subject, after which there will be no more please!

 

If you are tax resident in Thailand and you receive something of value, be it goods, services or cash, for which you originally made payment, anywhere, that becomes a taxable event in Thailand when those goods, services or cash are received in Thailand. You can send the money via Timbuctoo or have somebody else make the transfer for you wearing a mickey mouse mask but ultimately it becomes your taxable event.

[UKresonant]

6 hours ago, CrossBones said:

Here is another scenario

 

I live in Thailand. I am tax resident

 

I transfer money from my offshore account to someone else in Thailand, who is also a Thai tax resident.

 

According to the above comment I have to pay tax on any money i sent into Thailand.

 

And the other person I sent money to - they also received (my) money form overseas

 

Should we both, then, pay tax on the (same) amount?

 

Doesnt make any sense.

 

 

Here is an extract from the UK remittance pages, I've not yet found the equivalent Thai RD page, but suspect it may be somewhat similar, in respect to you question.....

"...Most remittances to the UK will be under the general rules but there are additional rules under which your foreign income and gains may be remitted to the UK. For example, you gift some of your foreign income or gains or something deriving from them to a person other than a relevant person - a gift recipient. It’s still possible for there to be a remittance of your foreign income or gains if the gift is used in such a way that it benefits a relevant person.

Your money or property does not have to be physically imported from overseas for a remittance to occur. For example, it could be money you receive in the UK from another UK resident, in return for money or assets representing your foreign income and gains transferred to them abroad.

1.3 Relevant person
A relevant person is:

the individual themselves, that’s, the person to whom the foreign income and gains belong
the individual’s spouse or civil partner, or people living together as if they’re spouses or civil partners
the individual’s children or grandchildren under 18 years of age (this includes children or grandchildren of their spouse or civil partners).....

[Ben Zioner]

8 hours ago, UKresonant said:

 

No it's still in place...

 

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxv3eDJmpwbaMv8y0dCuqfbA5dVeb2Fz3w?si=gBWX09_NoYHVIVUO

Funny that guy, I vaguely remember his early video on this topic, he was saying "don't worry to much", and now he says "even DTA may not work".

 

But unfortunately I have to agree with him as regards LTR, so I did my planning to minimise my tax until 2028. Then I intend to re-plan while not being tax resident.

 

BTW has he some business interest derived from the Elite program?

 

Also he doesn't seem to have read the 1979 immigration act, where 34.7 and 35.6 give BOI the leeway for the LTR.

Edited January 25 by Ben Zioner

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Thinking of giving up the big bike this year at 55, I don't bounce so well anymore, and the idiot drivers here are getting more dangerous by the day. Too many close calls with motorcycles and cars passing, not caring that you are travelling in the opposing lane. That and I don't like having motorcycles/cars passing me in the same lane either, I want the whole lane for any emergency maneuvers needed, especially when I am leaned over in a corner.

Yes, I often think they are playing 'buzz the falang'... more likely trying to squeeze past as some other idiot is moving too slow in the overtaking lane. 

[Badrabbit]

57 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Yes, I often think they are playing 'buzz the falang'... more likely trying to squeeze past as some other idiot is moving too slow in the overtaking lane. 

Thought you was going to give a very difficult and impossible to understand tax post.

[jacko45k]

7 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

Thought you was going to give a very difficult and impossible to understand tax post.

Yes my apologies, went off topic. My mind wanders amidst this topic.

[newnative]

9 hours ago, CrossBones said:

Here is another scenario

 

I live in Thailand. I am tax resident

 

I transfer money from my offshore account to someone else in Thailand, who is also a Thai tax resident.

 

According to the above comment I have to pay tax on any money i sent into Thailand.

 

And the other person I sent money to - they also received (my) money form overseas

 

Should we both, then, pay tax on the (same) amount?

 

Doesnt make any sense.

 

 

      Better still, send the money to someone in Thailand who is not a Thai tax resident, so not required to pay any tax on money remitted to them in Thailand.  You should also be in the clear regarding any tax owed as you have not remitted any money to yourself.

[JimGant]

8 hours ago, CrossBones said:

Transfer money to a gold dealer from overseas.

Collect gold from dealer in Thailand

 

Transfer money to a motor dealer from overseas

Pickup car from dealer in Thailand

 

Transfer money to an escrow account overseas, they pay property developer in Thailand

Receive ownership  of property in Thailand

 

Etc etc etc

 

None of these transfers are necessarily taxable events. What's the source and character of these transfers? If made this year from a pre 2024 financial account, not a taxable event. Take out a loan from a bank and send it for a condo purchase -- not a taxable event. Put X amount of your DTA-excluded gov't pension in a bank account, and send no more than X amount to Thailand - not a taxable event (you'll never be asked, but if so, you can self-parse this treaty-excluded X amount from other fungible funds in the account - just don't send more than the X amount). I would even go as far as saying, debit card purchases from this bank account that don't exceed X amount would survive any scrutiny (which, again, I doubt Thai RD will challenge your word, or records of amounts in bank that are treaty exempt).

 

From the drift of this thread, it sounds like folks believe any money you send to Thailand would be taxable, or even have some tax withheld upon arrival. Nuts. Thailand is not going to kill off Foreign Direct Investment by questioning the character of all monies remitted into Thailand. This, if done, will be done later, probably by self-assessment -- the only method that is realistic.

[JimGant]

4 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Last one on this subject, after which there will be no more please!

 

Then quit making it sound like all remittances have tax consequences.

[Mike Lister]

6 minutes ago, JimGant said:

 

Then quit making it sound like all remittances have tax consequences.

I'm sorry if I've come across that way because I certainly don't believe they do, in fact, far from it!

 

I believe that most remittances will NOT have tax consequences, unless they were intended by the remitter who wants to be taxed here rather than in their home country.

 

That series of posts from the same poster all involve transfers of funds from his offshore brokerage account which in the absence of any details, must be presumed to be income. He's simple looking for ways around paying tax, using various convoluted scenarios that simply wont work.

[Badrabbit]

25 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Yes my apologies, went off topic. My mind wanders amidst this topic.

Easily done.

[Guderian]

I've no idea if this has been shared yet, but apparently there's a standard $73 charge mandated by the OECD for tax authorities to receive its CRS report. Given how tight-fisted Thai officialdom is, unless the TRD has got a very good reason to suspect that they're going to get a lot of tax off you, then it's difficult to imagine them spending $73 each time on fishing expeditions to look at the foreign income of tens of thousands of expats.

[RupertIII]

4 minutes ago, Guderian said:

I've no idea if this has been shared yet, but apparently there's a standard $73 charge mandated by the OECD for tax authorities to receive its CRS report. Given how tight-fisted Thai officialdom is, unless the TRD has got a very good reason to suspect that they're going to get a lot of tax off you, then it's difficult to imagine them spending $73 each time on fishing expeditions to look at the foreign income of tens of thousands of expats.

Unless they charge us for it!

[Guderian]

6 minutes ago, RupertIII said:

Unless they charge us for it!

 

Yes, you can just imagine it, doing your annual retirement extension: that will be 1,900 Baht for the extension krub, and another 2,500 Baht for the OECD report sent to the TRD, lol.

[SHA 2 BKK]

8 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Funny that guy, I vaguely remember his early video on this topic, he was saying "don't worry to much", and now he says "even DTA may not work".

 

But unfortunately I have to agree with him as regards LTR, so I did my planning to minimise my tax until 2028. Then I intend to re-plan while not being tax resident.

 

BTW has he some business interest derived from the Elite program?

 

Also he doesn't seem to have read the 1979 immigration act, where 34.7 and 35.6 give BOI the leeway for the LTR.

Have to agree with you Ben.  This bloke been all over the place and has always had a harsh word for the LTR Visa.  But as he said “what can be given can be taken” and yes TIT. 
 

I too won’t bring anything into Thailand this and maybe next tax year even though I have a Pensioner LTR from December 2022 and money is earned in the previous year so technically tax free.  
 

After March 2025 when this years filing is due we “may” get a clearer picture.  “May” being the operative word.  

[liddelljohn]

On 1/24/2024 at 2:32 PM, Guderian said:

 

So, if that's going to be an annual feature, you intend becoming UK resident for tax purposes? You're allowed an average of 91 days a year in the UK over a four-year period, and no more than 183 days in any single tax year. 

I have dual nationality with an EU passport ,, UK tax resident only on pensions income  and investments, now  in UK , not on assets in  EU  and in the EU country Im essentially tax zero with some judicious planning  but if you only have  one passport its not same . I have been doing it most of my working life travelling around the world and HMRC are happy as are EU tax people .. Just gotta keep my travel records  up to date .

[The Cyclist]

Just posted this on a newly opened thread, might be of use to some.

 

I went to my local RD office this morning, armed with everything to get a TIN and file a tax return for 2023, including my other half as interuptor.

 

P60's annotated in Thai script by my trusty interuptor, colour coded tying them up with the deposits to my bank printout with matching colour coding.

 

All as easy as pie.

 

Took less than 5 minutes for them to tell me I had no need to file a tax return.

 

I didn't ask any questions on what might or might not be changing, I'll await an official announcement from the RD before going any further.

 

Take your pick from the following

 

* It is true and my local RD Office is not aware of it.

 

* My local RD couldn't care less.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

18 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

Take your pick from the following

 

* It is true and my local RD Office is not aware of it.

* My local RD couldn't care less.

I pick 1 and 3.

IMO there is no obligation to file a tax return - unless you are required to pay income tax; and 

The local RD is what really matters - if they say no - then no it is (but yes, also means yes).But over the course of this year things may change in regards to all 3 - TiT.

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I pick 1 and 3.

IMO there is no obligation to file a tax return - unless you are required to pay income tax; and 

The local RD is what really matters - if they say no - then no it is (but yes, also means yes).But over the course of this year things may change in regards to all 3 - TiT.

 

I missed a bit when I copied and psted from the other thread

 

I didn't ask any questions on what might or might not be changing, I'll await an official announcement from the RD before going any further.

 

Which would have saved you a bit of typing 

[Mike Lister]

22 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Just posted this on a newly opened thread, might be of use to some.

 

I went to my local RD office this morning, armed with everything to get a TIN and file a tax return for 2023, including my other half as interuptor.

 

P60's annotated in Thai script by my trusty interuptor, colour coded tying them up with the deposits to my bank printout with matching colour coding.

 

All as easy as pie.

 

Took less than 5 minutes for them to tell me I had no need to file a tax return.

 

I didn't ask any questions on what might or might not be changing, I'll await an official announcement from the RD before going any further.

 

Take your pick from the following

 

* Either the previous assertion that " Everyone has a legal obligation to file a tax return " is false.

 

* It is true and my local RD Office is not aware of it.

 

* My local RD couldn't care less.

What is the source of your quote above, may we have a link, please?

[TroubleandGrumpy]

13 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I missed a bit when I copied and psted from the other thread

 

I didn't ask any questions on what might or might not be changing, I'll await an official announcement from the RD before going any further.

 

Which would have saved you a bit of typing 

But over the course of this year things may change in regards to all 3 - TiT.

[Yumthai]

57 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

I didn't ask any questions on what might or might not be changing, I'll await an official announcement from the RD before going any further.

Amen.

[samtam]

On 1/26/2024 at 12:35 PM, The Cyclist said:

Just posted this on a newly opened thread, might be of use to some.

 

I went to my local RD office this morning, armed with everything to get a TIN and file a tax return for 2023, including my other half as interuptor.

 

P60's annotated in Thai script by my trusty interuptor, colour coded tying them up with the deposits to my bank printout with matching colour coding.

 

All as easy as pie.

 

Took less than 5 minutes for them to tell me I had no need to file a tax return.

 

I didn't ask any questions on what might or might not be changing, I'll await an official announcement from the RD before going any further.

 

Take your pick from the following

 

* It is true and my local RD Office is not aware of it.

 

* My local RD couldn't care less.

 

Where is your local RD?

[The Cyclist]

8 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

Where is your local RD?

 

Pak Chong

[bugger bognor]

what kind of idiot voluntarily goes to the RD  and trys to get a tax number I joked about USA citizens doing just that queuing desperately for a TN NUMBER  I can't believe people are so enthusiastic when there is absolutely no enforcement and wont be for a decade NO ENFORCEMENT= NO COMPLIANCE even if there was some enforcement it is not illegal to do your utmost to avoid paying tax here so many ways around it unfortunately people are so dim they can't see the answer and it's sitting in adjoining countries to Thailand I will not be needing any expert advice how not to pay tax even if the regulation was forced upon us and would be legal, your constant analysing and in depth arguments are stopping you see the wood from the trees! being kind as I can all I would say is the majority of you have no common sense...

Edited January 27 by stats
derogatory reference removed

[TheAppletons]

Cool story, bro.