Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[stat]

4 hours ago, Lorry said:

About DTA:

1. as I said earlier,  it will be a bureaucratic nightmare for you. Dogmatix has explained it.

2. Some have asked whether Thailand can breach a DTA. Yes, they can.

A DTA is a treaty between  2 sovereign states, and if one state doesn't adhere to the treaty,  the other state may take whatever action is deemed appropriate. 

An individual subject of one of these 2 states does not have the right to demand that it's government follow the treaty. 

 

Governments can and do openly breach treaties (including the DTA they have with Thailand).  Their subjects are not entitled to anything.  The other state is.

 

If Thailand breaches the  DTA with Gambia, Gambia can e.g. introduce economic sanctions,  like buying no more durian. Gambian citizens can do nothing about it.

At least someone who understands how DTAs work or do not! Going to court over a DTA is very costly and not really advisable if you are not in the middle 6 figure league per year. Going to court in Thailand over a DTA? Good luck with that!

[Tippaporn]

I've yet to watch it but it's U.S. centric.  It features "Doctor Tax" Thomas Carden of American International Tax Advisers and he discusses the implications of this proposed tax scheme.  Perhaps it contains valuable information for other nationalities.  Not sure as I haven't watched it yet.
 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Tippaporn

[hondoelsinore]

19 minutes ago, itsari said:

Defence

You mean Defense? Must be a Limey... thats a stretch for someone trying to get a pointless point across. The majority of the world is over taxed but thankfully full of sheep who find some ridiculous psychotic duty in paying taxes and will never stand against any tyranny. I am sure the new Thai PM was hesitant in paying 30 million baht for a chartered flight to the UN (The UN is largely funded by governments), thinking that money would be better served for defense. Can you hear my eyes rolling?

[Letseng]

On 9/18/2023 at 9:57 AM, connda said:

Eventually someone is going to write, "Does that mean farang's pension income too."

Short answer would probably be "No," at least for those countries with bilateral tax agreements with Thailand.  If you're paying income tax in your home countries, then Thailand has no claim to tax the income twice.

You wld pay the difference of tax rate between TH & your home country. 

[stat]

2 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

wouldn't they just roll the unpaid tax to the following year? nothing states it restarts each year only that it can be collected any year

 

" you bring 1M baht farang but owe 2M. pay 1M now or no visa.. "

My bet would be you the saga will go as follows: You owe 1 Million and did not pay so we have a nice cell waiting for you or you could pay 500K tea money + 1Million you owe + 1 Million for new visa. Apparently the thai baht is already suffering from this "great" idea that farangs should pay more tax in Thailand.

[itsari]

3 minutes ago, hondoelsinore said:

You mean Defense? Must be a Limey... thats a stretch for someone trying to get a pointless point across. The majority of the world is over taxed but thankfully full of sheep who find some ridiculous psychotic duty in paying taxes and will never stand against any tyranny. I am sure the new Thai PM was hesitant in paying 30 million baht for a chartered flight to the UN (The UN is largely funded by governments), thinking that money would be better served for defense. Can you hear my eyes rolling?

Your eyes are rolling as you are ignorant of why tax is needed .

By the way you said all tax is theft and not high taxes .

Good night and sleep well with the comfort of a tax system that helps all while .

Regards Itsari

[stat]

6 minutes ago, hondoelsinore said:

You mean Defense? Must be a Limey... thats a stretch for someone trying to get a pointless point across. The majority of the world is over taxed but thankfully full of sheep who find some ridiculous psychotic duty in paying taxes and will never stand against any tyranny. I am sure the new Thai PM was hesitant in paying 30 million baht for a chartered flight to the UN (The UN is largely funded by governments), thinking that money would be better served for defense. Can you hear my eyes rolling?

Some taxes need to be paid that should be obvious. However the amount is very debatable as most countries overcharge their citizens by factor 3-5 in my opinion.

[stat]

1 hour ago, JimTripper said:

I have been living here for years with no Thai bank account. I can just use the atm, but only because I have the o-a visa.
 

I guess atm withdrawals are exempt from taxation for now. No way to track that 180 days that I know of, but they could tax it coming out of the atm for everybody including tourists.

 

They do ask for passport each time I make a deposit into someone else’s account currently when I go into the branch, using money I just got out of their atm. I wonder if they will try to tax that.

 

If I deposited using the deposit atm does it ask for passport? Not sure on that one. I guess eventually everything will be validated with some sort of digital id and central bank digital currency as the surveillance state grows.

Your days in Thailand are easily trackable as you get an entry and exit stamp and all your data is in the immigration system the moment you get your passport back. Regarding the withdrawals I agree they should be difficult to track in the forseeable future. However in a country like Germany they will sue you for taxes up tp 15 years in arrears. So if they come up with a working Information exchange in the next 15 years there might a problem.

[transam]

So what is a "tax resident"...? 

[hondoelsinore]

2 minutes ago, stat said:

Some taxes need to be paid that should be obvious. However the amount is very debatable as most countries overcharge their citizens by factor 3-5 in my opinion.

I will say it again, this time slowly...... the majority of the world is over taxed but thankfully full of sheep who find some ridiculous psychotic duty in paying taxes and will never stand up against any form of tax tyranny. Just never mind that the new PM just spent 30 million baht for a flight from BKK to NYC.... nothing to see or complain about when you are a sheep.

[Lorry]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

So what is a "tax resident"...? 

Anyone who has been in Thailand more than 180 days in a calendar year

[transam]

1 minute ago, Lorry said:

Anyone who has been in Thailand more than 180 days in a calendar year

Thank you, that removes me from the tax police.............

[Lorry]

6 minutes ago, stat said:

Your days in Thailand are easily trackable as you get an entry and exit stamp and all your data is in the immigration system the moment you get your passport back. Regarding the withdrawals I agree they should be difficult to track in the forseeable future. However in a country like Germany they will sue you for taxes up tp 15 years in arrears. So if they come up with a working Information exchange in the next 15 years there might a problem.

Somewhere in this thread someone said in Thailand it's 20 years. 

Hard to imagine this would really happen. 

[Lorry]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Thank you, that removes me from the tax police.............

Congratulations. 

As of now, the RD has staff who counts these days by hand, from copies of the immigration stamps. 

But of course,  this can be automated and the RD can be connected to the immigration database. 

[transam]

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

yes - make up a load of rules to excuse yourself why not?

Not a single practiv=cal suggestion - you want to live here then pay.

Oh, do be quiet, gawd..............

[kwilco]

4 hours ago, stat said:

In Germany the top top rate is 50,5 if you count in solidarity surcharge and "Reichensteuer". In Germany the "normal" top tax rate (45%) starts at 65K USD whereas in the US it starts at 283K. Every comparision shows that Germany and Belgium top the tax charts. FYI

 

https://data.oecd.org/tax/tax-wedge.htm

 

Germany tax wedge 50,5%! US 30%! for average earner. If you are "rich" you are much better off in the US then in Germany.

Tax wedge is defined as differnece what the company has to pay in relation to what you get after taxes and social contributions. Granted social security is "better" in Germany then in the US.

I hope you can agree to the simple facts by an neutral organisation.

you're a one quote wonder - have you noticed how "poor" Germany is? THey also have an education.

[hondoelsinore]

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

yes - make up a load of rules to excuse yourself why not?

Not a single practiv=cal suggestion - you want to live here then pay.

Make up a load of rules.... pretty much the same thing the Thai government does.... If you live in Thailand you will always pay, in more ways than one....

[transam]

Just now, Lorry said:

Congratulations. 

As of now, the RD has staff who counts these days by hand, from copies of the immigration stamps. 

But of course,  this can be automated and the RD can be connected to the immigration database. 

No probs for me, at the mo.....????

[JimTripper]

18 minutes ago, stat said:

Your days in Thailand are easily trackable as you get an entry and exit stamp and all your data is in the immigration system the moment you get your passport back. Regarding the withdrawals I agree they should be difficult to track in the forseeable future. However in a country like Germany they will sue you for taxes up tp 15 years in arrears. So if they come up with a working Information exchange in the next 15 years there might a problem.

They would probably just nix the O-A visa eventually, solving that problem. I already heard a couple rumors about it being a black sheep of the visa options.

Edited September 20, 2023 by JimTripper

[Mike Teavee]

5 hours ago, Ricardo said:

OK, Thanks for the explanation, I see what you're getting at now.

 

Might I suggest, since your OAA doesn't start until your 66+, you might find it possible to take the 25% tax-free from your private-pension, plus any further unused personal-allowance in your 65th year ?  

 

I missed that, and could have drawn over 30% tax-free immediately, in exchange for a slightly-lower annuity thereafter.  

My private pension kicks in at 60 & because of the way defined benefit pensions work, I need to take the Tax Free element before/as part of the 1st payment, after that monthly payments are fixed (except adjusted for inflation) so there is no opportunity to defer any part of the tax free lump sum. 

 

State Pension will kick in at 67 for me. 

 

[kwilco]

39 minutes ago, transam said:

Oh, do be quiet, gawd..............

as ever you post without a clue. or anything to say.

[transam]

5 minutes ago, kwilco said:

as ever you post without a clue. or anything to say.

Yeh, read your stuff, plus I don't Wai Tesco staff........????

[Yumthai]

45 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Congratulations. 

As of now, the RD has staff who counts these days by hand, from copies of the immigration stamps. 

But of course,  this can be automated and the RD can be connected to the immigration database. 

No way, it would drastically increase the amazingly low unemployment rate they are so proud of.

[FruitPudding]

On 9/18/2023 at 9:49 AM, webfact said:

Thailand’s revenue departments has released new guidelines which will see all income from abroad taxed as personal income tax regardless of whether it was earned income or savings.

Taxing your savings, seriously??

 

 

[Skeptic7]

12 minutes ago, transam said:

Yeh, read your stuff, plus I don't Wai Tesco staff........????

I don't wai anybody ????

[beammeup]

15 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

I don't wai anybody ????

wai not?

[MartinBangkok]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

yes - make up a load of rules to excuse yourself why not?

Not a single practiv=cal suggestion - you want to live here then pay.

you're just another nimby.

"Made up rules"?

How about reality.

Edited September 20, 2023 by MartinBangkok
Spelling

[FruitPudding]

On 9/18/2023 at 11:58 AM, Sheryl said:

Again, as I explained:  if you are from a country with a double Tax Agreement, and if the money you bring in has already been taxed (at the time earned) in your home country or is currently subject to tax there, it cannot be taxed in Thailand.

 

 

But what about savings?

 

You could have been taxed on that income years or decades ago and have no documents to prove it.

 

And what about savings you didn't earn (e.g. gifts)? Will Thailand tax that if you send it over?

[david555]

2 hours ago, stat said:

Your days in Thailand are easily trackable as you get an entry and exit stamp and all your data is in the immigration system the moment you get your passport back. Regarding the withdrawals I agree they should be difficult to track in the forseeable future. However in a country like Germany they will sue you for taxes up tp 15 years in arrears. So if they come up with a working Information exchange in the next 15 years there might a problem.

A small visit to Phnomh Pehn or Sihanoukville before the 6 months "stay Thailand " kicks in could be a solution ....

 

Just a thought for some

[Lorry]

19 minutes ago, david555 said:

A small visit to Phnomh Pehn or Sihanoukville before the 6 months "stay Thailand " kicks in could be a solution ....

 

Just a thought for some

You are a tax resident if you stay more than 180 days in one calendar year. 

You need to stay outside of Thailand for the other 185 days.