Transgenderism 'a mental health disorder'

[FruitPudding]

12 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Perhaps Vivek and others suffering transphobia are projecting.

You are gaslighting other members here all throughout this thread and on other threads.

 

Not wanting a man in the girls' toilets or changing rooms is not transphobic, for example

 

Not wanting males in women's sports is not transphobic, for example.

 

Another example, not agreeing with puberty blockers and gender reassignment surgery is not transphobic.

 

But when posters here express concerns, you (and your buddies) start gaslighting them, calling them transphobic, homophobic, and accuse them of hate speech.

 

It's gaslighting. It's abusive.

 

And it's really just your tactic to remove freedom of speech to the point where people can't even express their concerns without being falsely accused of being something awful.

[impulse]

17 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

So many uneducated posts on this subject, this one included. 
In the VAST majority of countries in the world the minimum age for a physical sex change is 18. Younger children can start hormone treatment earlier BUT must have the consent of themselves (obviously) their parents and most importantly, a qualified health professional who needs to confirm gender dysphoria (a recognized mental disorder). 

And also importantly, the numbers involved are minute; in the UK (my home country) there was 355 full sex changes from April 2021 to March 2022, in the USA it was approx. 10,000 but importantly, only 56 we’re under 18 and were diagnosed with severe gender dysphoria and suicidal tendencies. 
This idea that children are getting their bits chopped off is just absolute nonsense, perpetuated by an increasing number of irrelevant GOP candidates dog whistling to the ignorant and ill-informed. 
It’s a medical issue better handled by medical professionals. 

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/

Kinda wondering where you got your numbers.  Since Reuters is blocked where I am, I looked it up on the JAMA website.  48,019 total USA gender affirming surgeries, with 3,678 of them being 12-18 years old.  That's between 2016 and 2020.  Up by almost a factor of 3 between 2016 and 2020 with a similar increase in the 12-18 group. It would be growing even faster had 20+/- states not banned gender affirming surgeries on minors.

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2808707#zoi230875t1

 

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by impulse

[Eleftheros]

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

You are making things up to suit your narrative but if you want to provide credible links to back up your assertion that there is an ''exploitative billion-dollar industry' forcing kids into sex changes against there's or their parents wishes, then I'm all ears.

The last thing you are is "all ears", because if you had any genuine interest in this subject you would have done the research yourself and discovered the basis for what I am saying.

 

It's not difficult. These "gender clinics" are actually proud of what they do, such as giving sterilizing hormones to 13-year-old and performing double mastectomies on 15-year-old girls. They don't hide it, they advertise it.

 

I really have no time for people who try to defend this wholesale mutilation of children.

[johnnybangkok]

7 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

The last thing you are is "all ears", because if you had any genuine interest in this subject you would have done the research yourself and discovered the basis for what I am saying.

 

It's not difficult. These "gender clinics" are actually proud of what they do, such as giving sterilizing hormones to 13-year-old and performing double mastectomies on 15-year-old girls. They don't hide it, they advertise it.

 

I really have no time for people who try to defend this wholesale mutilation of children.

With so much of it happening, then you must be able to come up with a mountain of evidence and statistics to back up your ascertions? 

I've done my research and posted links in previous comments. If you've got any to back up your ascertions of an 'exploitative billion-dollar industry' forcing kids into sex changes against there's or their parents wishes, then feel free to post. 

I'm saying you don't.

[FruitPudding]

10 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

It's not difficult. These "gender clinics" are actually proud of what they do, such as giving sterilizing hormones to 13-year-old and performing double mastectomies on 15-year-old girls. They don't hide it, they advertise it.

Gotta be careful with this kind of talk around here.

 

You'll be getting accused of "hate speech" and called "transphobic", or "homophobic."

[PremiumLane]

Fancy thinking Vivek Ramaswamy has any kind of understanding of what he is talking about. Talk about stoking up fear and prejudice to froth up the idiots. 

[johnnybangkok]

24 minutes ago, impulse said:

Kinda wondering where you got your numbers.  Since Reuters is blocked where I am, I looked it up on the JAMA website.  48,019 total USA gender affirming surgeries, with 3,678 of them being 12-18 years old.  That's between 2016 and 2020.  Up by almost a factor of 3 between 2016 and 2020 with a similar increase in the 12-18 group. It would be growing even faster had 20+/- states not banned gender affirming surgeries on minors.

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2808707#zoi230875t1

 

 

I have no idea what the JAMA website is but even if you take these numbers at face value, 3,678 of 12-18 years olds over a period of 4 years is 919 a year.  

But the most important part is the actual ages involved. When Ron Desantis (A man with a VERY obvious bias) claimed '"They want to castrate these young boys, that's wrong. We stood up and said, from the health and children's well-being perspective, you don't disfigure 10, 12, 13-year-old kids based on gender dysphoria." In reply Dr. Jack Turban, assistant professor of child and adolescent psychiatry at the University of California, said 'It is not true under any existing medical guidelines, no medical or surgical interventions are considered for prepubertal children." 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/aug/10/ron-desantis/transition-related-surgery-limited-teens-not-young/

Although some children can be given hormone treatment, the numbers for actual surgery are miniscule and ONLY done if the childs life is at risk (even DeSantis could only find 2 examples, one of a 15 year old and one of a 17 - and I recon he's been looking VERY hard for them).

One more time for the hard of understanding - this is a medical problem best left to medical professionals who know what they are talking about.

 

I

 

[impulse]

Just now, johnnybangkok said:

I have no idea what the JAMA website

Journal of the American Medical Association.  They take a very positive view of GAS. (Gender Affirming Surgery).  As you calculated, they say hundreds of gender affirming surgeries a year, age 12-18.  Mostly mastectomies, but that's pretty permanent.  Increasing each year up until Covid hit.  Hopefully, they'll update to 2023 soon.

 

2 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

this is a medical problem best left to medical professionals who know what they are talking about.

I'd go for that for adults.  Kids, not so much.  Because once finance enters the equation, I don't trust the professionals.  Most of them are probably ethical, but there's enough that aren't.

 

[TimeMachine]

24 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

Fancy thinking Vivek Ramaswamy has any kind of understanding of what he is talking about. Talk about stoking up fear and prejudice to froth up the idiots. 

Then blow me down and call me an idiot if I think wamy can be a better talker than Biden or Trump for example.

What other options have we got?

[johnnybangkok]

28 minutes ago, impulse said:

Journal of the American Medical Association.  They take a very positive view of GAS. (Gender Affirming Surgery).  As you calculated, they say hundreds of gender affirming surgeries a year, age 12-18.  Mostly mastectomies, but that's pretty permanent.  Increasing each year up until Covid hit.  Hopefully, they'll update to 2023 soon.

 

I'd go for that for adults.  Kids, not so much.  Because once finance enters the equation, I don't trust the professionals.  Most of them are probably ethical, but there's enough that aren't.

 

12-18 is too big a range to sample. 17/18 year olds are vastly different from 12/13 year olds and I’m saying no 12 or 13 year old is getting surgery (they’re simply not allowed). 
And unlike yourself I do trust the professionals as it’s not just them but the parents who also have to agree before anything is done on kids. You also need to find a surgeon willing to risk losing their license. This idea that kids are making up their own mind about changing sex and there’s a whole back-street industry of surgeons cutting off kids bits is blatantly absurd. 
It’s all a completely overblown situation created by the GOP in an absurd attempt to out- conservative each other. And by the looks of the posters here, it’s working. 
If the GOP was so concerned about the health of kids, they should focus on trying to not have them shot en masse at school. 

Edited October 1, 2023 by johnnybangkok

[impulse]

16 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

This idea that kids are making up their own mind about changing sex and there’s a whole back-street industry of surgeons cutting off kids bits is blatantly absurd. 

From the JAMA:  Among patients undergoing ambulatory surgical procedures, 37 394 (80.3%) of the surgical procedures included gender-affirming surgical procedures. For those with hospital admissions with gender identity disorder, 10 625 (11.8%) of admissions were for GAS.

 

Ambulatory...  That's walk-in clinics.  80% of GAS is happening in walk-in clinics, as opposed to "in hospital".  Some would call that a back-street industry.

 

[johnnybangkok]

7 minutes ago, impulse said:

From the JAMA:  Among patients undergoing ambulatory surgical procedures, 37 394 (80.3%) of the surgical procedures included gender-affirming surgical procedures. For those with hospital admissions with gender identity disorder, 10 625 (11.8%) of admissions were for GAS.

 

Ambulatory...  That's walk-in clinics.  80% of GAS is happening in walk-in clinics, as opposed to "in hospital".  Some would call that a back-street industry.

 

Find me something that says 12,13,14 year olds are getting full sex changes even in these clinics and you might have a point. I’m saying you can’t. 

[impulse]

1 minute ago, johnnybangkok said:

Find me something that says 12,13,14 year olds are getting full sex changes even in these clinics and you might have a point. I’m saying you can’t. 

You can thank the Repubs for that.  They've outlawed it in most red controlled states.

 

But if the kids live in one of 19 counties in North Texas, they can get a travel voucher to pay for out-of-state travel for gender surgeries and hormones for gender dysphoric children.

 

“By road or air — either way, it’s expensive to get out of Texas,” NTTN’s website reads. “Health care is a human right, and withholding necessary care for trans kids is state-sponsored cruelty. As neighbors to one another, we seek ways to help each other’s families flourish.”

 

https://www.westernjournal.com/controversial-church-funds-transporting-kids-puberty-blockers-sex-change-mutilations/

 

Whether it's sex changes or puberty blockers, it's the permanent modification of a child's body.  Quite possibly to address a temporary feeling that a lot of us had growing up.

 

[johnnybangkok]

3 minutes ago, impulse said:

You can thank the Repubs for that.  They've outlawed it in most red controlled states.

 

But if the kids live in one of 19 counties in North Texas, they can get a travel voucher to pay for out-of-state travel for gender surgeries and hormones for gender dysphoric children.

 

“By road or air — either way, it’s expensive to get out of Texas,” NTTN’s website reads. “Health care is a human right, and withholding necessary care for trans kids is state-sponsored cruelty. As neighbors to one another, we seek ways to help each other’s families flourish.”

 

https://www.westernjournal.com/controversial-church-funds-transporting-kids-puberty-blockers-sex-change-mutilations/

 

Whether it's sex changes or puberty blockers, it's the permanent modification of a child's body.  Quite possibly to address a temporary feeling that a lot of us had growing up.

 

Again you conflate two VERY different things in an attempt to justify your stance. Sex changes are permanent, puberty blockers are not.

'GnRH analogues don't cause permanent physical changes. Instead, they pause puberty. That offers a chance to explore gender identity. It also gives youth and their families time to plan for the psychological, medical, developmental, social and legal issues that may lie ahead. When a person stops taking GnRH analogues, puberty starts again.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075

I really wish that when you try and state facts you actually state facts and not just make stuff up that fits your agenda. I repeat, no 12, 13 or 14 year olds are getting permanent sex changes. It just isn't done.

[Eleftheros]

2 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

I really wish that when you try and state facts you actually state facts and not just make stuff up that fits your agenda. I repeat, no 12, 13 or 14 year olds are getting permanent sex changes. It just isn't done.

It is in keeping with the rest of your posts that you would ask somebody else to state facts and then claim as an authority the Mayo Clinic, one of the earliest, and largest, entities to jump on the bandwagon of performing invasive surgery on deluded and confused people with healthy bodies.

 

The people thus mutilated end up just as deluded and confused as before, but with mangled bodies and needing to take hormone treatment for the rest of their lives to maintain the desired sex characteristics, which is, not coincidentally, an ongoing source of income for the ghoulish practitioners of this butchery.

 

I really wonder how people can be so steeped in soullessness as to support this ghastly industry.

[Jingthing]

So much lying and fear mongering from the rabid transphobe community.

 

In the US underage gender affirming SURGERY is extremely rare.

 

Of course hormone therapy is done when appropriate after professional screening.

 

The vast majority of people who have transitioned are happy with the decision and have no wish to reverse it.

 

The small numbers of cases of regret are blown up by right wing zealots as proganda tools. 

 

While gender affirming care for underage is not to be taken lightly for those that do need it, it prevents depression and suicide 

Edited October 1, 2023 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, impulse said:

From the JAMA:  Among patients undergoing ambulatory surgical procedures, 37 394 (80.3%) of the surgical procedures included gender-affirming surgical procedures. For those with hospital admissions with gender identity disorder, 10 625 (11.8%) of admissions were for GAS.

 

Ambulatory...  That's walk-in clinics.  80% of GAS is happening in walk-in clinics, as opposed to "in hospital".  Some would call that a back-street industry.

 

Such surgery for UNDERAGE is extremely rare in the US.

Clinics are not back street.

Stop the lying.

[jak2002003]

18 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

I've met plenty of women who don't want men who wear dresses using their spaces, or competing against women in sport. 

We probably mix in different circles. 

Yes. I mix with normal open minded rational people, who dont have crazy religious or poliical views, and who treat their fellow human beings with respect and kindness. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Peabody]

22 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I'm telling you that I, in many years, have never met a single woman who said they had a problem with enjoy trans people using their toilets lol. 

Do you "enjoy" men using your men's room?

[Peabody]

6 hours ago, impulse said:

...feeling that a lot of us had growing up.

The buried lead!  ????

Guilty much??

[impulse]

1 minute ago, Peabody said:

The buried lead! 

Guilty much??

Guilty of what?  Raging hormones and confusion when I was an adolescent?  

 

[Peabody]

7 minutes ago, impulse said:

Raging hormones and confusion when I was an adolescent?  

At least 50% of that situation appears ongoing.

 

[johnnybangkok]

3 hours ago, Eleftheros said:

It is in keeping with the rest of your posts that you would ask somebody else to state facts and then claim as an authority the Mayo Clinic, one of the earliest, and largest, entities to jump on the bandwagon of performing invasive surgery on deluded and confused people with healthy bodies.

 

The people thus mutilated end up just as deluded and confused as before, but with mangled bodies and needing to take hormone treatment for the rest of their lives to maintain the desired sex characteristics, which is, not coincidentally, an ongoing source of income for the ghoulish practitioners of this butchery.

 

I really wonder how people can be so steeped in soullessness as to support this ghastly industry.

And I can’t believe why you keep making rubbish up to try and support your ideas. 
I used the Mayo Clinic just to show that hormone treatment isn’t permanent. I could provide a dozen links from other sources that say the exact same. 
Your point is non-existent and you going on about “mutilated” children only proves the sensationalism that you and many of your ilk are forced to resort to when faced with your invariable lack of facts and statistics. 
Get educated on the subject and then come back to me. 

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

And I can’t believe why you keep making rubbish up to try and support your ideas. 
I used the Mayo Clinic just to show that hormone treatment isn’t permanent. I could provide a dozen links from other sources that say the exact same. 
Your point is non-existent and you going on about “mutilated” children only proves the sensationalism that you and many of your ilk are forced to resort to when faced with your invariable lack of facts and statistics. 
Get educated on the subject and then come back to me. 

Transphobes aren't interested in education. Their thing is demonization and persecution. 

[Eleftheros]

42 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Your point is non-existent and you going on about “mutilated” children

I use the adjective "mutilated" to describe castration, mastectomy and worse on the healthy bodies of confused children.

 

What adjective would you use?

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

I use the adjective "mutilated" to describe castration, mastectomy and worse on the healthy bodies of confused children.

 

What adjective would you use?

Gender affirming SURGERY on underage people is extremely rare in the US.

You're on a wild eyed crusade about something that barely exists!

That is insane.

 

You may as well be getting hysterical about kitty litter toilets for children in schools which doesn't exist at all.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Jingthing

[Chomper Higgot]

9 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

You are gaslighting other members here all throughout this thread and on other threads.

 

Not wanting a man in the girls' toilets or changing rooms is not transphobic, for example

 

Not wanting males in women's sports is not transphobic, for example.

 

Another example, not agreeing with puberty blockers and gender reassignment surgery is not transphobic.

 

But when posters here express concerns, you (and your buddies) start gaslighting them, calling them transphobic, homophobic, and accuse them of hate speech.

 

It's gaslighting. It's abusive.

 

And it's really just your tactic to remove freedom of speech to the point where people can't even express their concerns without being falsely accused of being something awful.

I call politicians with zero medical training calling transgenderism a ‘mental health disorder’ abusive.

 

Away with you and your fake claims of ‘gaslighting’. 

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

I use the adjective "mutilated" to describe castration, mastectomy and worse on the healthy bodies of confused children.

 

What adjective would you use?

BS.

 

Because you aren’t in the least bit concerned about any children, you’re on a hate fest, driven by Alt-Right culture wars.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

BS.

 

Because you aren’t in the least bit concerned about any children, you’re on a hate fest, driven by Alt-Right culture wars.

Bingo. Game over.

[Eleftheros]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Gender affirming SURGERY on underage people is extremely rare in the US.

You're on a wild eyed crusade about something that barely exists!

That is insane.

What is truly insane is the blind defense of child mutilation - however rare you think it is - and the relentless efforts by the media and other vested interests to normalize the idea of "gender fluidity" to exploit vulnerable children into thinking that they can magically change sex by having their body parts chopped off.

It is sick and evil. As is anyone who supports it.