Rand Paul: Withdraw Ukraine money if you want to avoid shutdown

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

The USSR, in its later years, craved stability. Except for that Afghanistan mistake. 

 

Everyone gets an Afghanistan mistake.

Yes, I remember America's mistake that cost 50,000 + young American men's lives, for nothing.

[Dave0206]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Is Europe the only place in the world that I should care about? How about Burma, how about Tibet, how about certain areas in China, North Korea etc etc etc. The list of countries in peril is endless, yet I'm supposed to be concerned about European countries further away than Burma?

I can't care about every country in strife, so I care about the ones that affect me, and eastern European countries are for those living in that part of the world, not me.

 

Europe has been fighting since humans lived there, so this is just another in an endless battle.

What I am concerned about is that NATO pushes too hard and it turns into WW3 which certainly would affect me.

I'm not sure what you should care about that's up to you and your conscious. 

From a purely selfish point Russia Ukraine has financially affected every country in the world with oil and food prices reaching very high levels. 

Us is self sufficient in both but that did not matter with the oil companies selling to a global market. 

Sadly we forget about many injustices across the world but you saying you don't care will not stop Russia affecting every country across the globe see how thai people find it difficult to pay for a gas bottle 

[Dave0206]

15 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sounds reasonable that states should plan for their own disasters.

I'm pretty sure that he wasn't the only one that voted like that on the tax thing, so why pick on him specifically. Is he a socialist? If not then so what?

Next.

I'm simply pointing out when it suits him he is not so worried about debt .let other states suffer I'm not helping they should have set money aside then his state has disaster gimme gimme no mention of set aside money  be consistent then I may not agree with him but certainly could not accuse him of double standards 

[thaibeachlovers]

24 minutes ago, Dave0206 said:

I'm simply pointing out when it suits him he is not so worried about debt .let other states suffer I'm not helping they should have set money aside then his state has disaster gimme gimme no mention of set aside money  be consistent then I may not agree with him but certainly could not accuse him of double standards 

Even Rand is a politician when it comes down to it, and I think my views of politicians is well known on here. I just think he's better than the rest, which isn't a very high bar to cross.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's just a matter of time before they have to negotiate, so sooner would be better than later. All the fatherless children and widows of the future would support an end to it.

Right.  World War II would have ended a lot sooner if Britain had negotiated with Hitler right after Dunkirk.  (sarcasm for those who can't tell)

[Danderman123]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes, I remember America's mistake that cost 50,000 + young American men's lives, for nothing.

Our Afghanistan mistake resulted in 8,000 US deaths.

 

Vietnam was the big one that cost 50,000 US lives.

 

 

[impulse]

9 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

With a return to Russia  behind it’s 2014 borders being as good a starting pint as any.

Yeah.  Because that's really going to happen.  The time to negotiate borders is before they move.

 

[Hanaguma]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

Right.  World War II would have ended a lot sooner if Britain had negotiated with Hitler right after Dunkirk.  (sarcasm for those who can't tell)

You really see any kind of equivalence in the situation? Please tell me you aren't that shallow.

 

Ukraine is surrounded on all sides by NATO member states. If Putin were to attack one, the others would all be forced to join to repel the invasion.  I mean, Putin is a madman but he is not a stupid man. The odds of him wanting to expand the war beyond where it is today is about zero. 

[heybruce]

26 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

You really see any kind of equivalence in the situation? Please tell me you aren't that shallow.

 

Ukraine is surrounded on all sides by NATO member states. If Putin were to attack one, the others would all be forced to join to repel the invasion.  I mean, Putin is a madman but he is not a stupid man. The odds of him wanting to expand the war beyond where it is today is about zero. 

Thanks for the chuckle.  Now look at a map of Ukraine.

[scorecard]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Is Europe the only place in the world that I should care about? How about Burma, how about Tibet, how about certain areas in China, North Korea etc etc etc. The list of countries in peril is endless, yet I'm supposed to be concerned about European countries further away than Burma?

I can't care about every country in strife, so I care about the ones that affect me, and eastern European countries are for those living in that part of the world, not me.

 

Europe has been fighting since humans lived there, so this is just another in an endless battle.

What I am concerned about is that NATO pushes too hard and it turns into WW3 which certainly would affect me.

You criticize others for being selective about support but you do the same. 

 

Your suggestion of NATO possibly starting WW3 is not valid at all. 

[impulse]

44 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Your suggestion of NATO possibly starting WW3 is not valid at all. 

So you're not concerned at all about the UK DefMin announcing plans to put NATO boots on the ground in Ukraine?  No chance of deliberate escalation or some kind of tragic error? 

 

I see Sunak has walked him back.  Soon to fire him, I hope.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Our Afghanistan mistake resulted in 8,000 US deaths.

 

Vietnam was the big one that cost 50,000 US lives.

 

 

I was referring to Vietnam. The number of deaths was the hint.

 

As for Afghanistan, decades of war, countless deaths, untold amount of treasure and it's now as if the war had never happened- back to square one.

When are US politicians going to wise up and stop sending young men to die in futile conflicts?

[Hanaguma]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

Thanks for the chuckle.  Now look at a map of Ukraine.

I did. Poland, Baltic States, Belarus (obviously not NATO but that is irrelevant), Slovakia, Hungary. All NATO members.  Where can Russia expand without triggering war with NATO?

[thaibeachlovers]

29 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I did. Poland, Baltic States, Belarus (obviously not NATO but that is irrelevant), Slovakia, Hungary. All NATO members.  Where can Russia expand without triggering war with NATO?

Ooh, you are bringing sense into the discussion.

Shouldn't you be going on about how the orcs are going to get beaten any day now? Some were saying that a year or so ago, but any day now keeps getting postponed.

[heybruce]

45 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I did. Poland, Baltic States, Belarus (obviously not NATO but that is irrelevant), Slovakia, Hungary. All NATO members.  Where can Russia expand without triggering war with NATO?

Belarus?  It's like a colony of Russia. 

 

Ukraine isn't "surrounded on all sides" by NATO nations.  Maybe 20% of it's borders are with NATO nations, much more is with Russia and Belarus. 

 

Putin's next move?  He's been stirring up trouble with Georgia and Moldova in addition to Ukraine.  He's also currently annoyed with Armenia.  Or he may look for more ways to stir the pot in the Middle East.  He needs to keep the Russian population distracted with invented outside enemies or they may question why he's doing such a miserable job of governing Russia.

[herfiehandbag]

On 9/29/2023 at 11:59 AM, Tug said:

That was a blunder on his part imo now he is exposed as Putin’s bitch and Donnie’s little poodle all for no gain because his vote is un necessary 

I know little about Rand Paul, but I understand his credentials as "Putin's bitch" and Donnie's little poodle are already well established!

[candide]

https://www.politico.eu/article/worlds-cartoonists-on-this-weeks-events-101/

[bendejo]

On 10/4/2023 at 6:26 AM, herfiehandbag said:

I know little about Rand Paul, but I understand his credentials as "Putin's bitch" and Donnie's little poodle are already well established!

US senator from Kentucky.  Mitch McConnell is one also.  Lots of Russia-connected monkey business in that state, remember the Moscow Mitch thing?  That had to do with Russian oligarchs investment in the state.  Hey, after the Ukraine thing is over maybe Russia will try to annex Kentucky, they already have a foot in the door.

Ron Paul, the father, yeah, he's another national treasure.  Check out their dentistry con.

 

 

[Danderman123]

On 10/2/2023 at 11:19 PM, heybruce said:

Putin's next move?  He's been stirring up trouble with Georgia and Moldova in addition to Ukraine.  He's also currently annoyed with Armenia.  Or he may look for more ways to stir the pot in the Middle East.  He needs to keep the Russian population distracted with invented outside enemies or they may question why he's doing such a miserable job of governing Russia.

Stir up the pot in the Middle East is our winner this week.

[tkramer]

On 10/3/2023 at 8:05 AM, Hanaguma said:

You really see any kind of equivalence in the situation? Please tell me you aren't that shallow.

 

Ukraine is surrounded on all sides by NATO member states. If Putin were to attack one, the others would all be forced to join to repel the invasion.  I mean, Putin is a madman but he is not a stupid man. The odds of him wanting to expand the war beyond where it is today is about zero. 

I do not believe so. He has stated many times that he wants to reunite Russia back to its true borders… Soviet USSR, reuniting with all of Eastern Europe as it’s true destiny. And because he has some serious health issues (stroke in left side, notice how he can’t move his left arm, while his right arm swings), and that his days are numbered, he is not afraid to go out with ‘a bang’.

 

Buyer beware…

 

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by tkramer

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, tkramer said:

I do not believe so. He has stated many times that he wants to reunite Russia back to its true borders… Soviet USSR, reuniting with all of Eastern Europe as it’s true destiny. And because he has some serious health issues (stroke in left side, notice how he can’t move his left arm, while his right arm swings), and that his days are numbered, he is not afraid to go out with ‘a bang’.

 

Buyer beware…

 

 

Other reasons could explain the arm thing, and even if it was a stroke,  depending on the site of the clot it may not have affected his brain function, and it's unlikely it is killing him.

[Danderman123]

On 10/2/2023 at 1:40 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes, I remember America's mistake that cost 50,000 + young American men's lives, for nothing.

I remember Russia's mistake in invading Ukraine. Over 250,000 killed, wounded or captured - for nothing.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

I remember Russia's mistake in invading Ukraine. Over 250,000 killed, wounded or captured - for nothing.

How long were the Americans in Vietnam before abandoning it, and how long has Russia been in Ukraine? It's a bit early to be saying it's for nothing.