ISRAEL IS AT WAR !

[Tug]

6 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Remember 9/11?

 

Yes, it was an intelligence failure.

There were people who knew something was up in the case of 911 but the agency’s weren’t talking to each other it will be interesting to find out just who dropped the ball,someone had to know to many people over to long of a time to stockpile equipment and people 

[NickyLouie]

14 minutes ago, Tug said:

There were people who knew something was up in the case of 911 but the agency’s weren’t talking to each other it will be interesting to find out just who dropped the ball,someone had to know to many people over to long of a time to stockpile equipment and people 

 

Iran jammed the outpost signals where the filthy Islamic terrorists snuck over into Israel.

 

If Habibi wanted a war he gonna get it soon.

 

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-american-carrier-strike-force-mediterranean-db05d535a9ebb931f684f758c9b6f628

 

 

[Skipalongcassidy]

22 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

So the Palestinians invading Israel to acquire land is illegal under international law ?

   How about the war crimes committed by the Palestinian invaders ?

   Shooting and killing unarmed civilians is a war crime .

Not in the eyes of the Hateful 8... 

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Oh, they should just drop their pants, bend over and accept the slow motion genocide being inflicted upon them in silence?

 

The UN must impose a border, based upon the 1967 green-line, and then militarily enforce it.

In the event that the UN does nothing, what do you think the Gazans should do?

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, MrMojoRisin said:

 

 

IMHO the greatest villain here is the international community that allows this situation to persist decade after decade.

 

The International Community won't do anything as long as Hamas aims at the destruction of Israel, and kills civilians.

[Nick Carter icp]

At least 260 bodies recovered from the music festival 

 

 

Israel-Hamas war: At least 260 bodies found after attack on Israeli music festival

Those killed at the Supernova festival near Re'im in southern Israel are among hundreds dead across the country so far. A further 1,590 Israelis have been injured after Hamas launched its attack in the early hours of Saturday.

 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-at-least-260-bodies-found-after-attack-on-israeli-music-festival-12980661

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

At least 260 bodies recovered from the music festival 

 

 

Israel-Hamas war: At least 260 bodies found after attack on Israeli music festival

Those killed at the Supernova festival near Re'im in southern Israel are among hundreds dead across the country so far. A further 1,590 Israelis have been injured after Hamas launched its attack in the early hours of Saturday.

 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-at-least-260-bodies-found-after-attack-on-israeli-music-festival-12980661

 

Apparently the fundamantalist Hamas terrorists are not music fans.

They want war -- they've got it. 

[cdnvic]

Some disturbing images removed. Please don't post graphic content.

 

It's a difficult topic to discuss but everyone's being more or less reasonable.

Thank you.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

You think Islamic extremists only dish out bloody noses when it's deserved??

 

They'll also cut your head off if you are not Muslim. 

 

Sure, Israel probably deserves what it gets, but Islamic extremists are the inherent enemy of western civilization and a danger to our innocent people (not Israel).

 

Looks like David is giving Goliath a real bloody nose.

 

I'm well aware of what Islamic terrorists do elsewhere, but IMO in Gaza the Hamas soldiers are the Resistance to Israeli illegal occupation of the West Bank, just like the French heroes in WW2 against the Germans.

 

Seems the US has finally stopped pretending to be a "peace broker" with their outright support of Israel and not a word about a ceasefire.

Biden is even sending an aircraft carrier group. Are they going to join in flattening Gaza from the air?

Even the Russians are calling for a ceasefire.

However there are American voices against American support for Israel. As seen on Al Jazeera, lots of protestors outside the White House are calling for an end for US money to support Israeli apartheid

[Jingthing]

15 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Looks like David is giving Goliath a real bloody nose.

 

I'm well aware of what Islamic terrorists do elsewhere, but IMO in Gaza the Hamas soldiers are the Resistance to Israeli illegal occupation of the West Bank, just like the French heroes in WW2 against the Germans.

 

Seems the US has finally stopped pretending to be a "peace broker" with their outright support of Israel and not a word about a ceasefire.

Biden is even sending an aircraft carrier group. Are they going to join in flattening Gaza from the air?

Even the Russians are calling for a ceasefire.

However there are American voices against American support for Israel. As seen on Al Jazeera, lots of protestors outside the White House are calling for an end for US money to support Israeli apartheid

Another one broadcasting the antisemitic trope that Israel is equivalent to Nazis.

I don't recall the French resistance massacring German civilians at a music festival or breaking into houses to murder and kidnap random German civilian children. Hmm. 

 

Americans with minority opinions are free to speak and protest. Contrast to residents of Gaza that oppose their own government. 

[thaibeachlovers]

25 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

The International Community won't do anything as long as Hamas aims at the destruction of Israel, and kills civilians.

The "International Community" IMO hasn't done anything as long as Israel has existed to support Palestinians, so it's going to make zero difference if they don't do anything now.

 

Seems that the International Community are inflating this conflict somewhat. It's a few hundred lightly armed Palestinian soldiers against the massive Israeli military. They don't have artillery, planes, tanks etc. However, to hear the hysteria on TV news it's like the Iranian army was invading.

 

If the Israelis go too far in flattening Gaza, as they seem intent on doing, it likely will cause an uprising in the West Bank, which has been surprisingly quiet, other than demonstrations.

 

There have been clashes on the Israeli/ Lebanon border. Be interesting to see if Syria takes advantage of the situation.

 

Large anti Israel support demonstrations in Washington and New York.

 

https://www.euronews.com/2023/10/08/israel-gaza-the-global-impact-of-the-escalating-conflict

Türkiye

Thousands of Turks have taken part in a march in Istanbul to support the Palestinians.

“The Palestinian people are only defending their homeland, it has nothing to do with terrorism,” Sahin Ocal, 54, an activist from one of the associations organising the march, told AFP.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, seajae said:

thats because the terrorist are cowards that hide behind women & children after killing innocent people so that they are also killed in any retaliation,  when you have pathetic  brain dead  men that get their jollies by killing/slaughtering/raping small children and bragging about it to show how"big" they think they  are you really have to wonder how pathetic these people really are, they deserve to be removed from the earth permanently as do any that do what these animals have done. At least the Israel soldiers dont hide behind civillians like these animals do, these terrorists use  civillian schools/hospitals etc to hide their weapons/bombs, they deserve everything that happens to them.

I see no point in even trying to be reasonable with posters that write <deleted> like that, so you can join my ignore list.

Bye.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Who lived in the Gaza Strip 100 years ago? Where did they come from?

Palestinians did.

Modern Israel didn't even exist then.

I'm sure you can look up their origins with google if you care.

[Jingthing]

Israel does not intend to "flatten" Gaza.

But now that this has happened Israel has no choice but to attempt to completely destroy Hamas. With all the hostages, that's not going to be easy or quick. Hamas was smart to take hostages. To those that think you can negotiate peace with Hamas a force dedicated to Israel not existing at all, that's like thinking you can negotiate with Putin. 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

"If you see a turtle on a fence post, you know it had some help" - Bill Clinton

 

Israel have deliberately engineered the Palestinians current predicament.

Indeed they have, IMO.

Seems strange that when something like the present conflict happens, people that have a very different opinion about Ukraine blame the Palestinians for fighting back against the invaders, and think they should just accept their suppression without complaint.

 

IMO the Israelis will use the excuse to really destroy Gaza, and I suspect they have been waiting for such an excuse for a long time.

Is it significant that the US is supplying more munitions than would be needed by the Israelis to suppress a small conflict with lightly armed fighters? What do they think they will be used for?

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/08/us-is-sending-a-carrier-strike-group-closer-to-israel-and-will-begin-supplying-munitions.html

The U.S. military is moving an aircraft carrier strike group and military aircraft closer to Israel as a show of support, and will also begin supplying Israel with munitions and other military supplies immediately, said Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin.

[mikebike]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

In the event that the UN does nothing, what do you think the Gazans should do?

Uhm, I know! Unrelenting resistance? 

[Bkk Brian]

Backed by Iran according to this

 

Iran Helped Plot Attack on Israel Over Several Weeks

DUBAI—Iranian security officials helped plan Hamas’s Saturday surprise attack on Israel and gave the green light for the assault at a meeting in Beirut last Monday, according to senior members of Hamas and Hezbollah, another Iran-backed militant group.
Officers of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps had worked with Hamas since August to devise the air, land and sea incursions—the most significant breach of Israel’s borders since the 1973 Yom Kippur War—those people said.
Details of the operation were refined during several meetings in Beirut attended by IRGC officers and representatives of four Iran-backed militant groups, including Hamas, which holds power in Gaza, and Hezbollah, a Shiite militant group and political faction in Lebanon, they said.

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iran-israel-hamas-strike-planning-bbe07b25

https://archive.ph/bgOvS

[Hanaguma]

20 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Indeed they have, IMO.

Seems strange that when something like the present conflict happens, people that have a very different opinion about Ukraine blame the Palestinians for fighting back against the invaders, and think they should just accept their suppression without complaint.

 

IMO the Israelis will use the excuse to really destroy Gaza, and I suspect they have been waiting for such an excuse for a long time.

Is it significant that the US is supplying more munitions than would be needed by the Israelis to suppress a small conflict with lightly armed fighters? What do they think they will be used for?

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/08/us-is-sending-a-carrier-strike-group-closer-to-israel-and-will-begin-supplying-munitions.html

The U.S. military is moving an aircraft carrier strike group and military aircraft closer to Israel as a show of support, and will also begin supplying Israel with munitions and other military supplies immediately, said Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin.

I wasnt aware that Israel had invaded Gaza.

 

A big help in ending this conflict would be if the Arab/Muslim "brothers" of the Palestinians actually did anything to help them. Seems rather that the Gazans are being used by other, cynical players in the region.  

 

Given the current death toll, it is the equivalent on American terms of having more than 20,000 dead.  This will get ugly.

[2baht]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

In the event that the UN does nothing, what do you think the Gazans should do?

Maintain the rage!

[Jeff the Chef]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Israel does not intend to "flatten" Gaza.

But now that this has happened Israel has no choice but to attempt to completely destroy Hamas. With all the hostages, that's not going to be easy or quick. Hamas was smart to take hostages. To those that think you can negotiate peace with Hamas a force dedicated to Israel not existing at all, that's like thinking you can negotiate with Putin. 

This will never end well for either side, whilst I deplore the atrocities of Hamas in this latest attack, you cannot then say Israel are innocent of atrocities against the people of Gaza.

The international community as usual will wring their collective hands about the terrorism of Hamas/Hezbollah etc etc

100/1000's of innocent Palestinian men, women and children will be killed or wounded by Israel forces who yet again will try to bomb/shell the Gaza strip chasing Hamas fighters.

At the end of the day no one will win and in another few years it will be rinse and repeat.

The international community need to separate the Arabs and the Israelis, clear out all the weapons/munitions and fighters from Gaza with a international peace force and then chair peace talks between all sides, this cannot go on.

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, Morch said:

On the contrary, there are plenty of posts on this topic detailing in length how Israel is the cause of it all. You may want to scroll through it again before making such odd statements. Sure, some people are into it's-all-the-Palestinians'-fault. They got their own posts as well.

 

In all the years since this conflict came about, the Palestinians somehow failed producing effective leadership, a unity of cause, defining realistic goals and formulating strategies to achieve them, no functioning social and economical infrastructure, and not diplomatic horizons past clinging to slogans and doing the same things over and over again.

 

The other side fared better.

 

Now this difference can be attributed to many factors. And these could play good talking points as well. But the bottom line remains.

 

All them articles, columns, opinion pieces going on about how Israel done the Palestinians wrong, how the world, the West, Arab countries, or whomever did them wrong are all very well. But as things stand, even if the Palestinians would be handed a state tomorrow morning, it would crumble on its own by the end of the year.

 

I may add that laying all the blame on Israel, The West, The USA, Colonialism, Imperialism and whatnot is in itself a condescending position. It forever casts the Palestinians as incapable, helpless, clueless and unable to take charge of their own destiny.  

Thanks for the counterfactual argument. Basically, your claim is that if the Palestinians had behaved better, or the Palestinian government had been better run,  then the Israelis would have been less repressive and a happier outcome would have been achieved.  What about an alternative counterfactual argument? That if the Palestinians had remained acquiescent, their position today would be even worse? Or that if the Palestinian government had been acquiescent, given the economic and social conditions imposed by the Israelis would have led their own people to revolt against them?

This from the historian Benny Morris concerning the situation before the first intifada.

https://archive.org/details/righteousvictims00morr_0/page/340/mode/2up

 

Or how about this, if the Israelis had from the start treated the Palestinians in a way that promoted their economic and social welfare, then good governance would have been possible? I don't claim to know the answer to these counterfactual propositions. But at least I acknowledge the ones I advance as such. 

What we do know from modern history, is that ethnicity and nationalism began to play a far stronger role in the 20th century than they had previously. And with enormously improved communications, this trend has escalated sharply. Given that, does it seem likely that an agreement acceptable to the Palestinian populace and the Israelis could have been reached?

 

 

[sammieuk1]

Hamas Palestinian cheering and celebrations won't be lasting long ????

 

 

BREAKING: Minister of Defence of Israel: "The rules of war have changed, we will cripple Gaza so that it will remember it for the next 50 years."

 

 

[LosLobo]

38 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Backed by Iran according to this

 

Iran Helped Plot Attack on Israel Over Several Weeks

DUBAI—Iranian security officials helped plan Hamas’s Saturday surprise attack on Israel and gave the green light for the assault at a meeting in Beirut last Monday, according to senior members of Hamas and Hezbollah, another Iran-backed militant group.
Officers of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps had worked with Hamas since August to devise the air, land and sea incursions—the most significant breach of Israel’s borders since the 1973 Yom Kippur War—those people said.
Details of the operation were refined during several meetings in Beirut attended by IRGC officers and representatives of four Iran-backed militant groups, including Hamas, which holds power in Gaza, and Hezbollah, a Shiite militant group and political faction in Lebanon, they said.

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iran-israel-hamas-strike-planning-bbe07b25

https://archive.ph/bgOvS

Yet no evidence of Iran involvement says Blinken.

 

I would tend to believe the official line on this at the moment given that WSJ is a Murdoch enterprise, though it is not usually as radical as Fox or NYP.

 

Blinken says U.S. has 'not yet seen' evidence of Iran involvement in Hamas attack on Israel (cnbc.com)

[daveAustin]

On 10/7/2023 at 6:50 PM, Nick Carter icp said:

It is a war ,

Palestinians  attack Israel then make claims of being the victim 

If two warring sides not have the same artillery, that doesn't make it any less of a war , or do you expect Israel to give Hammas some cruise missiles just to even it up a bit ????

   Instead of Israel firing cruise missiles in Gaza , they should send them by road unfired and give them to Hammas to fire at Israel ?

Is it? A group of big kids come into a playground and push the little kid around. No power, little support, rudimentary weapons—while one is an acquired nuclear power backed by the most powerful nations. Don’t agree with any of it and killing civilians is bad, but they’ve essentially had their country stolen.  The US and co should butt out.

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Indeed they have, IMO.

Seems strange that when something like the present conflict happens, people that have a very different opinion about Ukraine blame the Palestinians for fighting back against the invaders, and think they should just accept their suppression without complaint.

 

IMO the Israelis will use the excuse to really destroy Gaza, and I suspect they have been waiting for such an excuse for a long time.

Is it significant that the US is supplying more munitions than would be needed by the Israelis to suppress a small conflict with lightly armed fighters? What do they think they will be used for?

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/08/us-is-sending-a-carrier-strike-group-closer-to-israel-and-will-begin-supplying-munitions.html

The U.S. military is moving an aircraft carrier strike group and military aircraft closer to Israel as a show of support, and will also begin supplying Israel with munitions and other military supplies immediately, said Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin.

You do know that Israel has not yet invaded Gaza, but that Gaza has invaded Israel?

[thaibeachlovers]

56 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I wasnt aware that Israel had invaded Gaza.

 

A big help in ending this conflict would be if the Arab/Muslim "brothers" of the Palestinians actually did anything to help them. Seems rather that the Gazans are being used by other, cynical players in the region.  

 

Given the current death toll, it is the equivalent on American terms of having more than 20,000 dead.  This will get ugly.

Since the Israelis left Gaza they have invaded once or a few times, leaving dead children and destruction in their wake. Bombing would also qualify as an "invasion".

 

I absolutely agree they are being used by sinister forces behind the scenes, but Israel has created a population eager to take revenge with it's siege and collective punishment. Every time Israel bombs Gaza they cause young men to desire revenge on the enemy.

 

It's been ugly since the Nakba.

 

I agree it's going to get ugly, very ugly, and for every Gazan killed there will likely be 10 willing recruits for Hamas.

Israelis have to recognise that using the hammer on Palestinians for 30 years hasn't prevented this conflict, the Palestinians are not going away, and it's time to try something different if they don't want another repeat again and again and again.

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/einstein-s-parable-of-quantum-insanity/

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

That witticism—I’ll call it “Einstein Insanity”—is usually attributed to Albert Einstein.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

You do know that Israel has not yet invaded Gaza, but that Gaza has invaded Israel?

How can you invade your own land? It was taken against their will and given to other people by western powers in a foreign land.

[Morch]

6 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

I don't think many people here are aware of the history of Gaza, which is very different from the West Bank.

 

The Gaza strip has been the home of Palestinians for thousands of years. They used to be called "Phillistines ", and originally came from Greece. Over the years, they intebred with Hebrews and were Arabized later.

 

Eventually, Egypt gained control of the Gaza Strip and so the locals gained an affinity for Egypt that resulted in a very different culture than other Palestinians. At some point, Egypt was forced to give it up, and Gaza continued as the home for Palestinians under Israeli control.

 

What should happen is that the residents should have complete independence (not as part of the West Bank government), but without any allusions to somehow conquering Israel for themselves. The sooner that the historical status of Gaza as a separate and free standing entity is realized, the fighting ends.

 

That's the solution.

 

However, Hamas is more interested in getting funding for fighting Israel than administering an independent country. They are the barrier to Gazan independence.

 

6 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

The Philistines are  nothing to do with the Palestinians , two different peoples , just both begin with the letter P , thats the one thing that have in common .

   Philistines became extinct thousands of years ago  

 

6 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

As I said, the Phillistines interbred with Hebrews, and later became Arabized.

 

But the Phillistines are the ancestors of the Gazans, and the word "Palestine" came from "Phillistine".

 

6 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Palestinians have nothing to do with the Philistines , different peoples 

 

5 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Who lived in the Gaza Strip 100 years ago? Where did they come from?

 

5 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Adbul Azziz moved to Gaza in 1927, he came from Ashkelon , he got a job as a fisherman 

 

5 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Ashkelon was an ancient Phillistine city.

 

5 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Yes, the Philistine left  1000s of years ago , became extinct , I think they all got eaten by dinosaurs 

 

5 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

IiRC, the Hebrews left Israel 2,000 years ago.

 

5 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Didn't they go for a 40 year walk around the Sinai or something ?

 

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

The point is that Gazans have been living in Gaza for thousands of years.

 

None of this pseudo historical 'discussion' is relevant to the topic at hand, even if more of the peppered bits of 'facts' and factoids were correct. This is not about who might have lived there thousands of years ago, but who dies there nowadays.

[Morch]

6 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

 

This creates the prospect of US Special Forces in Gaza.

Unlikely.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

How should Palestinians fightback against Israeli occupation and oppression?

What options do they have?

What would you do if you had to walk a mile or two in Palestinian shoes?

Yawn. Always with them 'questions' to others. Rarely putting up something of your own.

 

Resistance does not have to be solely based on violence.

Fostering unity among their ranks instead of pushing for a divide could help.

Getting a territory for self rule, maybe a better idea to invest in developing it rather than use it as a base for attack.

And so on and so forth....