ISRAEL IS AT WAR !

[jvs]

5 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

this video i posted was put up 1 hour ago.there are now videos from top

IDF spokes people who confirm this.

Are you going to keep denying it?

There are also pictures of the dead babies but i will not post them.

40 dead innocent babies !

[Eloquent pilgrim]

12 minutes ago, jvs said:

this video i posted was put up 1 hour ago.there are now videos from top

IDF spokes people who confirm this.

Are you going to keep denying it?

There are also pictures of the dead babies but i will not post them.

40 dead innocent babies !

He probably will keep denying it, because I doubt he will change his apologist for Hamas stance this late into the discussion.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

Who started it?

 

This sort of stuff, semite on semite horror (yes the Arabs are semites too) goes back a long way:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

"The massacre became a pivotal event in the Arab–Israeli conflict for its demographic and military consequences. The narrative was embellished and used by various parties to attack each other—by the Palestinians against Israel; by the Haganah to play down their own role in the affair; and by the Israeli left to accuse the Irgun and Lehi of blackening Israel's name by violating the Jewish principle of purity of arms."

 

The Great Powers really ****** the region when they conspired before, and got hold of it after, the Ottoman Empire collapsed.

 

Blame them.

 

I do.

 

 

 

 

 

So for you, the conflict start at Deir Yassin? Why not at the 1929 Hebron Massacre?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre

Choosing arbitrary entry points to this is great, incorrect and misleading.

 

[Morch]

2 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Based on what?

(other than prejudice and bigotry)

Recent polling shows 33% of Palestinian support for a two state solution and 34% support from Israeli's for a two state solution.

And Hamas enjoys even a greater level of popular support. Polls can show all sort of things.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

If this elimination is allowed, who is next, Iran/all Muslims?  

I don't know what Israel should do, the whole situation is a mess.  

Consult your imaginary Rabbi friend, perhaps?

[Jeff the Chef]

2 hours ago, ChipButty said:

 EU accuses Jewish state of breaking international laws by cutting off food and water to Gaza

 

They wont be needing any shortly 

What a wonderful person you are, not.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Mr Derek said:

It's a word. As used by Zionists themselves:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Zionist_Congress 

Nice try but I'm not even anti-Zionist. My vote is for a two-state solution. It's their determination to take over and ethnically cleanse the whole region that I am against.

There is no such 'whole region' agenda such as you claim.

Even if there was, considering they take over a century feuding with the Palestinians and not getting it over with, guess the 'region' can relax.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, ChipButty said:

ONLY 44% for them, then they took power and said there will be no more elections, I dont think Gazans' have much say in the matter, 

They routinely get similar figures on national wide polls. Sometime down, sometime up, but pretty solid. As for a 'say in the matter' - Palestinians seem perfectly capable of 'resisting' and 'fighting' against Israel, why not against the Hamas?

[Morch]

1 hour ago, MrMojoRisin said:

It is a great deal better condemnation than the one you are not applying to the murderous state of Israel.

Oh, so it's the whole state that's 'murderous'? All of the Israelis? Including the opposition to Netnayahu? Including the pro-peace camp? Including Israel's Arab citizens?

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Jeff the Chef said:

261 posts in this topic from you and that's it, any other views are "Woke scum"

 

Joint Statement by Harvard Palestine Solidarity Groups on the Situation in Palestine

 

....

 

No, not 'any other' view. This particular one.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

1 hour ago, Mr Derek said:

Hamas is the embodiment of the frustration - or don't you understand how people must feel corralled into a concentration camp in their own homeland?

"Killing all Jews?" They want to dismantle the immoral (and illegal according to international law) Jewish ethno-state. 

 

Israel does not:

 

·  execute 260 young people at a music party

·  go from house to house killing entire families

·  rape and brutalise young women

·  abduct young and old alike

·  kill young women, strip them naked and parade them on pick up trucks

·  execute babies by slitting their throats

·  fire thousands of rockets indiscriminately at a civilian population

·  celebrate the death of their enemies with parties in the streets

 

There is no equivalence here, and to suggest there is, is either naive or something far more sinister; I hope it is just naivety on your part.

[candide]

3 hours ago, Morch said:

 

There's no changing the power imbalance. It's a fact and a reality. There is no requirement that sides to a negotiation would be equal in strength, I daresay many times this is not the case. 

What is left to negotiate, in terms of land? At least with the current government. Basically, one side can say what it wants and, if it is not accepted, can get it anyway in an other way thanks to its power. Leaving, in any case, the other side with a fragmented territory, which is unsustainable from an economic point of view, because it doesn't include the wealthiest parts of the West Bank. Practically, the options currently available to the Palestiniansare either to be legally depossessed legally, or to be illegally (according to international laws) depossessed.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Correct, I have no sympathy for either side, my sympathy is for the innocents on both sides, whereas you only support your sides actions without any regard for views that don't fit your narrative.

No, I support Israel's right to strongly respond after this attack. I do not revel in the death of innocents, I do not demonize Palestinians. And I am critical of Israel's policies - mainly in the West Bank.

[MrMojoRisin]

4 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Israel does not:

 

·  execute 260 young people at a music party

·  go from house to house killing entire families

·  rape and brutalise young women

·  abduct young and old alike

·  kill young women, strip them naked and parade them on pick up trucks

·  execute babies by slitting their throats

·  fire thousands of rockets indiscriminately at a civilian population

·  celebrate the death of their enemies with parties in the streets

 

There is no equivalence here, and to suggest there is, is either naive or something far more sinister; I hope it is just naivety on your part.

Israel has killed the odd Palestinian or two though, haven't they, practiced a wee bit of apartheid as well if I'm not mistaken - not really perched on the moral high ground are they.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

Just now, MrMojoRisin said:

Israel has killed the odd Palestinian or two though, haven't they, practiced a wee bit of apartheid as well if I'm not mistaken - not really perched on the moral high ground are they.

Unlike Hamas are in your opinion then ?

[MrMojoRisin]

17 minutes ago, Morch said:

Oh, so it's the whole state that's 'murderous'? All of the Israelis? Including the opposition to Netnayahu? Including the pro-peace camp? Including Israel's Arab citizens?

The state refers to the government and the permanent institutions.

 

Amnesty International: 

 

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi-3rLV8-2BAxWRr1YBHdJJCgAQFnoECBIQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amnesty.org%2Fen%2Flatest%2Fnews%2F2022%2F02%2Fisraels-apartheid-against-palestinians-a-cruel-system-of-domination-and-a-crime-against-humanity%2F&usg=AOvVaw23UmorD3V6Uk05OuNzf0Rb&opi=89978449

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, candide said:

What is left to negotiate, in terms of land? At least with the current government. Basically, one side can say what it wants and, if it is not accepted, can get it anyway in an other way thanks to its power. Leaving, in any case, the other side with a fragmented territory, which is unsustainable from an economic point of view, because it doesn't include the wealthiest parts of the West Bank. Practically, the options currently available to the Palestiniansare either to be legally depossessed legally, or to be illegally (according to international laws) depossessed.

 

When you say 'the current government' - which side's government are you referring to? It not like any of the three (Israel, the PA, Hamas) is up for it much, or in a position to make such decisions.

 

The notion of these negotiations is that the Palestinians offer Israel reprieve from constant terrorist attacks, the need to invest hugely in related sectors, and living life in peace. For this, the Israelis are supposed to pay with land.

 

My personal point of view is that it is in Israel's best interests to reach an agreement, drop the illegal settlement efforts and concentrate on security concerns. Provided the latter are taken care of, it's worth it - especially long term. For a whole lot of reasons, Israel's voter base is turning more and more religious, and also more right wing. This makes rational argument somewhat difficult.

 

I agree that the prospects for a Palestinian state are far from ideal, and that there are many hurdles even if Israel and the Palestinians were able and willing to bridge gaps - but the longer this is postponed, the harder it will be to reach an agreement, and the less the Palestinians will get.

 

Consider the 1947 Partition plan which they  rejected. What they will get today is less than that. So maybe better to do as Israel did, take what you can when you can.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

7 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Unlike Hamas are in your opinion then ?

No, exactly like Hamas, in my opinion.

[metisdead]

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[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, jvs said:

For once i agree with you,if the Palestinians want peace and a better life

they need to get rid of hamas.

 

They won't so Israel must.

[Danderman123]

45 minutes ago, Morch said:

And Hamas enjoys even a greater level of popular support. Polls can show all sort of things.

Hamas will continue to be popular unless they are perceived as losing. Then, they will be forgotten.

 

IF Israel eliminates Hamas (big "if"), it might be possible for a neutral leadership to emerge focus on "fixing" Gaza so it's liveable. 

[Danderman123]

14 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

When you say 'the current government' - which side's government are you referring to? It not like any of the three (Israel, the PA, Hamas) is up for it much, or in a position to make such decisions.

 

The notion of these negotiations is that the Palestinians offer Israel reprieve from constant terrorist attacks, the need to invest hugely in related sectors, and living life in peace. For this, the Israelis are supposed to pay with land.

 

My personal point of view is that it is in Israel's best interests to reach an agreement, drop the illegal settlement efforts and concentrate on security concerns. Provided the latter are taken care of, it's worth it - especially long term. For a whole lot of reasons, Israel's voter base is turning more and more religious, and also more right wing. This makes rational argument somewhat difficult.

 

I agree that the prospects for a Palestinian state are far from ideal, and that there are many hurdles even if Israel and the Palestinians were able and willing to bridge gaps - but the longer this is postponed, the harder it will be to reach an agreement, and the less the Palestinians will get.

 

Consider the 1947 Partition plan which they  rejected. What they will get today is less than that. So maybe better to do as Israel did, take what you can when you can.

 

All of the above is doable, if the effort is confined to Gaza.

 

Creating an independent neutral Gaza should be the goal.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Jeff the Chef said:

261 posts in this topic from you and that's it, any other views are "Woke scum"

 

Joint Statement by Harvard Palestine Solidarity Groups on the Situation in Palestine

 

We, the undersigned student organizations, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence. 

 

Today’s events did not occur in a vacuum. For the last two decades, millions of Palestinians in Gaza have been forced to live in an open-air prison. Israeli officials promise to “open the gates of hell,” and the massacres in Gaza have already commenced. Palestinians in Gaza have no shelters for refuge and nowhere to escape. In the coming days, Palestinians will be forced to bear the full brunt of Israel’s violence. 

 

The apartheid regime is the only one to blame. Israeli violence has structured every aspect of Palestinian existence for 75 years. From systematized land seizures to routine airstrikes, arbitrary detentions to military checkpoints, and enforced family separations to targeted killings, Palestinians have been forced to live in a state of death, both slow and sudden. 

 

Today, the Palestinian ordeal enters into uncharted territory. The coming days will require a firm stand against colonial retaliation. We call on the Harvard community to take action to stop the ongoing annihilation of Palestinians.

 

 

African American Resistance Organization 

Bengali Association of Students at Harvard College

Harvard Arab Medical and Dental Student Association

Harvard Chan Muslim Student Association 

Harvard Chan Students for Health Equity and Justice in Palestine

Harvard College Pakistan Student Association

Harvard Divinity School Muslim Association

Harvard Middle Eastern and North African Law Student Association

Harvard Graduate School of Education Islamic Society

Harvard Graduate Students for Palestine

Harvard Law School Justice for Palestine

Harvard Divinity School Students for Justice in Palestine

Harvard Jews for Liberation

Harvard Kennedy School Bangladesh Caucus

Harvard Kennedy School Muslim Caucus

Harvard Kennedy School Muslim Women’s Caucus 

Harvard Kennedy School Palestine Caucus

Harvard Muslim Law School Association

Harvard Pakistan Forum

Harvard Prison Divest Coalition

Harvard South Asian Law Students Association

Harvard South Asians for Forward-Thinking Advocacy and Research

Harvard TPS Coalition

Harvard Undergraduate Arab Women's Collective

Harvard Undergraduate Ghungroo

Harvard Undergraduate Muslim Women’s Medical Alliance

Harvard Undergraduate Nepali Students Association

Harvard Undergraduate Palestine Solidarity Committee

Middle East and North African Graduate School of Design Student Society

Neighbor Program Cambridge

Sikhs and Companions of Harvard Undergraduates 

Society of Arab Students

 

Refuted by the Harvard University administration. 

[MikeandDow]

24 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Israel has killed the odd Palestinian or two though, haven't they, practiced a wee bit of apartheid as well if I'm not mistaken - not really perched on the moral high ground are they.

but they dont cut heads off babys

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Hamas will continue to be popular unless they are perceived as losing. Then, they will be forgotten.

 

IF Israel eliminates Hamas (big "if"), it might be possible for a neutral leadership to emerge focus on "fixing" Gaza so it's liveable. 

I don’t think it could be worse than Hamas.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

8 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Hamas will continue to be popular unless they are perceived as losing. Then, they will be forgotten.

 

IF Israel eliminates Hamas (big "if"), it might be possible for a neutral leadership to emerge focus on "fixing" Gaza so it's liveable. 

Imagine there's no Hamas

It isn't hard to do

Nothing to kill or die for

And no religion, too

 

 

With humble deference to J.Lennon

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Imagine there's no Hamas

It isn't hard to do

Nothing to kill or die for

And no religion, too

 

 

With humble deference to J.Lennon

Make it happen brave IDF heroes.

Yalla Bye.

[novacova]

6 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

All of the above is doable, if the effort is confined to Gaza.

 

Creating an independent neutral Gaza should be the goal.

That would be nice, though Iran will always poison the pot and exploit any opportunity to do so. Even if the Palestinians had full free democratic elections and peaceful intentions, a proxy of Iran will crop up, this game will go on in perpetuity as long as there’s a regimes such as the Iranian and jihad type organizations.

[Jeff the Chef]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Refuted by the Harvard University administration. 

Have you a link to confirm that?

[MrMojoRisin]

39 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

but they dont cut heads off babys

Some of them permit it though.

 

https://www.haaretz.com/2009-11-09/ty-article/west-bank-rabbi-jews-can-kill-gentiles-who-threaten-israel/0000017f-e28c-d38f-a57f-e6deda480000

 

Anyway, you shouldn't leap to conclusions.

It seems rather obvious that with this particular story, when all is said and done, the truth is going to be very, very different from 40 babies being beheaded.

 

It's rather interesting that Haaretz makes no mention of beheaded babies..., why would that be?

 

https://www.haaretz.com

 

Let's wait and see what the BBC has to say on the matter, in the meantime accusations of atrocities from both sides should be met with suspicion until conclusive evidence is provided in each instance.

 

Only a fool allows himself to be led by hatred.