Bangkok Pollution: one for the BKK long timers

[ReloTH]

Couple of queries on Bangkok pollution, particularly for those who've been on the ground for a long time so have seen it come & go.

 

Q1) I feel like the last pollution 'season' was worse than usual but I don't have enough years in BKK to comment accurately, is that a fair assessment or was that quite typical?

 

Q2) From memory December to April sees the worst of it. If you were able to leave the city for a month or two during the worst of it which months would you leave?

 

Thank you in advance 

[bbko]

Contrary to what many anti covid vaxers think, many Thais wear the face masks just because of the pollution.  Ever been on a motorbike when some truck in front of of you blows out thick black smoke in your face? 

 

Plenty of weather apps on smart phones to show the air quality index.

As far as historical data, I'd say the dry season has the most days of smog alerts in BKK.

[Screaming]

https://aqicn.org/city/bangkok/

 

https://www.windy.com/?12.836,101.312,7,m:d0xaiVr

 

January and February seem to me as the worst months for pollution in Bangkok and surrounding areas.

[brewsterbudgen]

It's no worse in Bangkok than in most other areas of Thailand!  Avoid November to March if you're sensitive to it.  But wearing a good quality mask and using air purifiers at home makes it liveable.

[Lorry]

8 hours ago, ReloTH said:

I feel like the last pollution 'season' was worse than usual but I don't have enough years in BKK to comment accurately, is that a fair assessment

Yes.

It came later,  but it was worse

8 hours ago, ReloTH said:

If you were able to leave the city for a month or two during the worst of it which months would you leave?

February.

Extend to weeks before (it can start at Christmas) and after (it can last until after Songkhran)

8 hours ago, ReloTH said:

who've been on the ground for a long time so have seen it come & go.

The smog is a fairly recent development. It didn't exist in this form 10 years ago. 

After the rice scheme of the terribly corrupt regime of Yingluck the squeaky clean new government abolished it and instead of rice they subsidized sugar cane. Within a few years,  from a very low base, Thailand has become a major sugar producer. Sugar is put into beer, into bread, whatever. 

Sugar cane is harvested by burning the fields. That's why a place like Khon Kaen, a city not that big, surrounded by sugar cane plantations,  has bad pollution every dry season.  If a whole country burns,  don't expect the capital to have clean air. 

 

Of course there are other factors: burning of the forests by big agrobusinesses all over South East Asia to grow corn as chicken feed for China is the second important factor. 

Traffic, industry, construction sites are all blamed by the people who want to divert attention from the real culprits. 

[swm59nj]

When I lived in Bangkok recently.  I used air purifiers in my condo.  I had an air quality app on my phone.  If the air was very bad I would wear a mask. 
And people do wear masks for things other than and before covid.  

 

 

 

 

 

[LALes]

You're spot on with your assessments.  It does get worse every year and it starts earlier, too.

It used to be just January and February but now, it starts around Christmas and goes thru March.

A good air purifier is a NECESSITY to live through a Bangkok winter.  

I've been monitoring the air in BKK for over 10 years, when the Bangkok Post would give a lone figure of air quality (Din Daeng) in their weather box.  The numbers get worse every year and the season lasts longer.  Those 2013 Din Daeng figures are mild by comparison.   Is that due to more burning?  Probably.  

Don't think its any better in Pattaya during the winter months.  The north winds blow the sh*t all over the lower portions of Thailand.    You have to go far in the south (Phuket) to get out of the range of the pollution, and even they can get a nasty dose once in a while.

All that being said, the summer months are heaven, with almost no bad days from May to November.

I saw a lot of great days with clear, blue skies in BKK this summer.  THe numbers on the Air Visual app will back that up.

[Presnock]

Not only the burning of fields, mushroom hunters, etc in Thailand, surrounding countries of Asia also burn

big time - right now Singapore and Malaysia are complaining to Indonesia about their smoke causing very

heavy smog in their country.   I have been living off and on in Thailand since the 70's and during the "burning" season there is always smog.  In BKK previous to going unleaded gasoline locally the smog seemed to be heavier but after

the mid-90's, it did improve but now weather patterns seem to be affecting the smog areas more.  NASA also has

a satellite showing fires burning and during the burning season, south and south asian countries are almost all 

RED.  A good quality mask is a must as are air purifiers.  Some international schools also have air purifiers and have

had them for years if one has kids in school.  Hard to escape without leaving the region for a few months of some

relief but smog in BKK is hard to avoid.  One can also buy a cheap 2.5micron monitor from Lazada/shopee and they

are more accurate for one's immediate area.

[Unify]

15 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

It's no worse in Bangkok than in most other areas of Thailand!  Avoid November to March if you're sensitive to it.  But wearing a good quality mask and using air purifiers at home makes it liveable.

I wouldn't use 'being sensitive to it' as a big factor in a decision as to where to live related to air pollution. Some of the risk factors related to air pollution, such as stroke may not have any discernable symptoms beforehand.

 

Heart disease, stroke, emphysema, lung cancer, and dementia all correlate positively to pollution levels. 

[garet]

20 hours ago, bbko said:

Contrary to what many anti covid vaxers think, many Thais wear the face masks just because of the pollution.  Ever been on a motorbike when some truck in front of of you blows out thick black smoke in your face? 

 

Plenty of weather apps on smart phones to show the air quality index.

As far as historical data, I'd say the dry season has the most days of smog alerts in BKK.

Thais wearing a mask has nothing to do with anti-vaxers. You were just making a cheap shop against people you don’t like.

Edited October 10, 2023 by garet

[VocalNeal]

I never noticed. I simply got on with life.

[OneMoreFarang]

I live in Bangkok since before the SkyTrain was built. 

 

Now there is less pollution than years ago. Many years ago, the small green busses were the worst of all of them. Then, years later, the red busses were still bad. Now I see only seldom vehicles with black smoke.

 

Personally, I got used to the pollution. I ride motorcycle in the middle of the city, and I don't think it feels worse on any month compared to another months. 

I also go to bars where people smoke. I am so used to it that if you would ask me a day later if anybody was smoking in bar A or B I would be able to tell you. It was just "normal".

 

At home, living in a high floor, the air is cleaner. But for some month (I think worst is about January to March) I use an air purifier in the bedroom. That improves the air quality considerably. 

For me I only need this when I sleep. Day time, sitting on a desk or sofa, I don't really know how good the air quality is. 

 

 

[RafPinto]

8 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I live in Bangkok since before the SkyTrain was built. 

 

Now there is less pollution than years ago. Many years ago, the small green busses were the worst of all of them. Then, years later, the red busses were still bad. Now I see only seldom vehicles with black smoke.

 

Personally, I got used to the pollution. I ride motorcycle in the middle of the city, and I don't think it feels worse on any month compared to another months. 

I also go to bars where people smoke. I am so used to it that if you would ask me a day later if anybody was smoking in bar A or B I would be able to tell you. It was just "normal".

 

At home, living in a high floor, the air is cleaner. But for some month (I think worst is about January to March) I use an air purifier in the bedroom. That improves the air quality considerably. 

For me I only need this when I sleep. Day time, sitting on a desk or sofa, I don't really know how good the air quality is. 

 

 

True. I see far less buses pumping black smoke.

More often you see  converted pick-up trucks with black smoke when they try to impress someone.

 

[Lorry]

28 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I live in Bangkok since before the SkyTrain was built. 

 

Now there is less pollution than years ago. Many years ago, the small green busses were the worst of all of them. Then, years later, the red busses were still bad. Now I see only seldom vehicles with black smoke.

 

Personally, I got used to the pollution. I ride motorcycle in the middle of the city, and I don't think it feels worse on any month compared to another months. 

I also go to bars where people smoke. I am so used to it that if you would ask me a day later if anybody was smoking in bar A or B I would be able to tell you. It was just "normal".

 

At home, living in a high floor, the air is cleaner. But for some month (I think worst is about January to March) I use an air purifier in the bedroom. That improves the air quality considerably. 

For me I only need this when I sleep. Day time, sitting on a desk or sofa, I don't really know how good the air quality is. 

 

 

The black smoke from buses was very visible,  and on a main street like Sukhumvit, especially on a motobike, you were breathing smoke - like in a bar.

 

What we have now is very different.  It's everywhere,  on the river as on the high floors. And it's not only in Bangkok, it's the whole country, except (in the winter) the deep south.  CM and the whole north are the worst. 

 

(And yes, i was watching, too, when they were building the Skytrain)

 

[Dirk Z]

Before investing in one of the much promoted air purifiers I wanted to know what the baseline parameters are. I bought a reliable Air Quality Monitor. The AQI has almost never been over 50 inside my room, often having the windows open. A bit to my surprise I must admit, but it seems like an air purifier will not make much improvement. I live in central Bangkok.

[digbeth]

I remembered late 90s was pretty bad, up on high building you'd distinctly see layer of brown on top of the horizon everywhere in Bangkok

 

Out in Pattaya you'd notice on the burn days for the planting of tapioca, but then it'd only be a few days for the whole year, unlike Chiang Mai where you see it all season for lots longer

 

the PM2.5 stuff maybe was due to raised awareness from access to apps and more monitoring stations, I start wearing masks in Bangkok around 2018 - 2019, maybe it's all the palm oil planting in the whole SEA 

[brewsterbudgen]

4 hours ago, Unify said:

I wouldn't use 'being sensitive to it' as a big factor in a decision as to where to live related to air pollution. Some of the risk factors related to air pollution, such as stroke may not have any discernable symptoms beforehand.

 

Heart disease, stroke, emphysema, lung cancer, and dementia all correlate positively to pollution levels. 

Yes, living in Asia carries significant health risks.

[VocalNeal]

3 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Yes, living in Asia carries significant health risks.

I think the biggest risk to health and longevity is not picking the correct parents????

 

Living in Asia is a minor concern.

[OneMoreFarang]

28 minutes ago, Dirk Z said:

Before investing in one of the much promoted air purifiers I wanted to know what the baseline parameters are. I bought a reliable Air Quality Monitor. The AQI has almost never been over 50 inside my room, often having the windows open. A bit to my surprise I must admit, but it seems like an air purifier will not make much improvement. I live in central Bangkok.

My air purifier brings shows a number <5 when it is running for some time.

It makes a difference. 

[atpeace]

57 minutes ago, Dirk Z said:

Before investing in one of the much promoted air purifiers I wanted to know what the baseline parameters are. I bought a reliable Air Quality Monitor. The AQI has almost never been over 50 inside my room, often having the windows open. A bit to my surprise I must admit, but it seems like an air purifier will not make much improvement. I live in central Bangkok.

50 isn't too good  but I have no idea of the long term consequences.  A decent purifier will probably drop your numbers into the single digits.  When it gets bad outside it is nice to be in room that has clean air and cold AC.  Other than after rain storms when running doesn't cause degusting smog phlegm, I even run on the treadmill in my place. 

 

When I was wealthier, I would just go to another country but my poorer self usually stays in Thailand and stays inside for much of the day until enough of the smog clears.

[Lorry]

4 hours ago, digbeth said:

maybe it's all the palm oil planting in the whole SEA

Palm oil planting is the reason for "the haze" (doesn't it sound cuter than "smog") in Singapore and Malaysia right now, as every year. 

They blame Indonesia. Somehow they forget to mention that the companies burning down Indonesia are often Singapore-owned.

4 hours ago, digbeth said:

I start wearing masks in Bangkok around 2018 - 2019,

Right, that's when the smog we have now started. Thailand didn't become a sugar producer overnight,  it took a couple of years after the coup 2014.

The smog now is a "haze" of PM 2.5, unlike the bigger particles of the brown smoke of the 90s. PM 2.5 are so small they enter your lungs. They are only filtered out by a N95 mask, a surgical mask, like in the 90s, isn't enough. 

4 hours ago, Dirk Z said:

AQI has almost never been over 50 inside my room, often having the windows open

You probably confuse AQI and PM 2.5

Or your meter isn't that good

Do you really believe, when the window is open, the air inside is better than outside?

4 hours ago, Dirk Z said:

an air purifier will not make much improvement

As said by others,  it does make a big difference. 

Measurable and noticeable,  only very indolent people wouldn't feel the difference. On a bad day, one can view, smell and taste the smog, feel it in the eyes,  the nose and the throat,  and the skin is all sticky,  not from sweat.

Sleep in an air-purified room and then go out!

[LarryLEB]

30 or 35 years ago, while on holiday in Bangkok, I remember reading in the leading English-language Thai newspaper that living in Bangkok had the equivalent effect of smoking two packs of cigarettes a day.  Additionally, the newspaper reported that, at an given point in time, over 1/3 to 1/2 of traffic police suffer from respiratory ailments.

 

This was during the months of June, July, and August.  So, serious air pollution problems in Bangkok are nothing new, but go back decades.

 

In the recent years, the months of December through February or March have been the worst here in Pattaya.  Our air purifiers get their workouts in those months.  BUT, they reduce the indoor pollution levels by over 95%.  

[digbeth]

Sugars are used in the production of Ethanol for the 'Gasohol' mix in most 'petrol' fuel in Thailand today, 

I think the 91 octane E10 (10% ethanol) were phased out around 2020, does this correspond in bigger share of newer cars and bike being on E20 and E85 that results in more demand for ethanol and sugars? 

[digbeth]

the people that say air filter don't do a thing probably still hasn't removed the plastic cover from their filter element 

[Dirk Z]

2 hours ago, Lorry said:

Palm oil planting is the reason for "the haze" (doesn't it sound cuter than "smog") in Singapore and Malaysia right now, as every year. 

They blame Indonesia. Somehow they forget to mention that the companies burning down Indonesia are often Singapore-owned.

Right, that's when the smog we have now started. Thailand didn't become a sugar producer overnight,  it took a couple of years after the coup 2014.

The smog now is a "haze" of PM 2.5, unlike the bigger particles of the brown smoke of the 90s. PM 2.5 are so small they enter your lungs. They are only filtered out by a N95 mask, a surgical mask, like in the 90s, isn't enough. 

You probably confuse AQI and PM 2.5

Or your meter isn't that good

Do you really believe, when the window is open, the air inside is better than outside?

As said by others,  it does make a big difference. 

Measurable and noticeable,  only very indolent people wouldn't feel the difference. On a bad day, one can view, smell and taste the smog, feel it in the eyes,  the nose and the throat,  and the skin is all sticky,  not from sweat.

Sleep in an air-purified room and then go out!

No I don't confuse AQI and PM 2.5. For the record: the latter number is often around 10.

[DonniePeverley]

There is local pollution and city wide pollution in the enviroment. 

 

For me, i have really struggled and become quite disillusioned by LOCAL POLLUTION, mostly VEHICLES. We live in central Bangkok, and the volume of vehicles in my opinion has increased massively over the past 10 years.

 

You just leave your condo, walk down the road to grab a bite to eat and you are surrounding by cars just blowing hot air into your face. Big cars bellowing out exhaust fumes. Those dirty busses (albeit now rarer) are still around. 

 

You go to work, cross a road, go to a bar, and you take the full wiff of vehicle pollution in. 

 

I went to China town, and you had motorbikes just going into the narrow soi's pumping away the gas into your face. I went to show some guests around China Town, as it's a big tourist pull. You sit there and eat whilst they allow cars, busses all just to blow exhaust fumes into your face. 

 

Many look at Bangkok pollition levels and think they aren't too bad. But on the ground, going around vehicles everydays really is becoming hazardous. The pollution levels on these meters doesn't tell you that reading. 

 

I am not one of those 'lets tax cars type zealot, but i think around the main arteries Thailand has to adopt some measures - 

1) Begin a ban on old polluting vehicles, or put some taxes on them.

2) Increase the BTS / MRT lines. Have a good working bus line that has it's own dedicated lanes. Encourage people to use them through incentivisations. 

3) Stop introducing clean zones - where cars have to pay to go into. I am thinking here of main arteries like Sukhumvit and Silom. Those who go into these zones for deliveries could be exempt. Eg, if you want to travel in the zones that the BTS goes along, you pay 100 Baht. That will bring traffic down. 

 

It's really started to get me down. And i just see the problem getting worst. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by DonniePeverley

[ReloTH]

OP Here, appreciate the healthy discussion on an unhealthy topic folks, some good advice

[Hanuman2547]

The air quality in Thailand, and Bangkok in particular, has always been bad.  It was like this back in the 80's and continues to this day.  I notice it most on return flights to Bangkok when you begin descending into the haze during the daylight hours.  

[DonniePeverley]

17 hours ago, Hanuman2547 said:

The air quality in Thailand, and Bangkok in particular, has always been bad.  It was like this back in the 80's and continues to this day.  I notice it most on return flights to Bangkok when you begin descending into the haze during the daylight hours.  

 

But if you look at air quality readings for different cities - Bangkok doesn't rate too badly. 

 

But it's down on the ground, in local areas where it can be terrible - especially vehicle pollution when you are in the thick of it. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 10/10/2023 at 10:38 AM, Dirk Z said:

Before investing in one of the much promoted air purifiers I wanted to know what the baseline parameters are. I bought a reliable Air Quality Monitor. The AQI has almost never been over 50 inside my room, often having the windows open. A bit to my surprise I must admit, but it seems like an air purifier will not make much improvement. I live in central Bangkok.

1. Lately has been the off/rainy season for smog in Thailand, so levels have been comparatively low... Wait till Dec., Jan. and onward arrive.

 

It also depends on whether the up to 50 value you're mentioning is actually an AQI reading that you call it, or is instead a 50 reading of micrograms per cubic meter of PM2.5 pollution, which is probably a more common reading used by more air purifiers, since AQI standards can and do vary some by country.

 

But either way, your lungs will be begging for your air purifier by the end of the year and into next year if you're still in central Bangkok then.

 

Here's the various AQI readings for Bangkok as of Sunday night -- almost all of them well above the 50 AQI level:

 

 

http://aqicn.org/station/bangkok

 

And, here's what Bangkok's pollution levels by AQI have looked like over the past several years by month, with the red levels being unhealthy, the orange levels being unhealthy for sensitive groups, the yellow moderate, and the green good.