Expats seeking a new life face challenges with stricter banking and taxation rules being pushed

[FarAway]

8 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Well you can, its only the remittance to Thailand which creates the taxable event.. 

Start paying all bills via wise.. A direct payment from outside the country to the 3rd party is then thier taxable event, not yours.. House and car payments, GF or wifes housekeeping, etc etc.. Spend as much as possible with an overseas credit card.. Brings the total right down. 

Nope, that is technically wrong.

If you are a tax-resident in Thailand and are paying goods and services, no matter if it is an overseas credit card, you are remitting money to Thailand IN THE MOMENT you use the overseas credit card to pay for something.

What you described would just be tax evasion. Good luck with that, might be some years until Thailand catching up on that, but I would not like to be fined or thrown into a Thai jail :) 

[atpeace]

8 hours ago, Tom H said:

Change the bank and go to i.e. Wise. Done.

 

There are many workarounds but fail to see how Wise is one of them.  I'm sure I' missing something.

[BritScot]

7 minutes ago, FarAway said:

I lost a <deleted>load of money the last 2 years in crypto, that I made the 2 years before in 2020 and 2021. But at the of 2021 I was still even in the bracket of VHNWI and even in this setting I thought Thailand is not bad, because:

 

Territorial taxation so for me completely tax-free.

Freedom to own guns (for my wife of course) and despite that a very peaceful place where my wife can walk alone in the streets in the evening.

Freedom from harassing police and government intervention, you can just do your thing if you do not bother other people

Natural beauty (just trashy and plasticy)

Good infrastructure

 

 

There are not many other countries in the world where all of these things applied. Sadly, the first 3 points of the 5 I mentioned will all disappear now that Thaksin is back in charge of the country. <deleted> up. Byebye Thailand, going on to greener pastures.

Really! Obviously you were never here when he was in charge (gdp 12~14%) life for expats was 10 times better infact things regressed massively. From someone who was in Thailand living the life and saw the changes almost instantly. 

[kingstonkid]

4 hours ago, JCauto said:

Not correct, and they've already thought of this obvious dodge. If you get examined by your government or the Thai for that matter, they'll expect you to show them which country you pay taxes to because there must be one that you choose as your residence. There are a number of factors going into this including presence physically, assets, work, income sources, ties, etc. But there are no situations where they say "ah, foiled again by the ol' 179 day trick! If only you'd stayed one extra day!" 

 

The computers and government and bank databases are linking and they're won't be easy escapes from the tax man for long. You will have noticed how much stricter everyone is getting with money transfers. Tax is the thing that motivates government to be active and energetic in pursuit of revenue. 

YOu seem to have an idea about this how does it work if our hoe country is already deducting tax revenue from payments

[FarAway]

7 hours ago, mikebell said:

Where will you go?  I am considering Laos.

 

Well my three main points that I am looking for is:

 

- Either no Personal Income Tax or a system of territorial taxation

- a low vaccination rate (as that indicates not blindly following the herd, beneficial for the future)

- high amount of personal freedom

 

Laos got nothing of that.

 

So right now I am considering Vanuatu, Paraguay, Bahamas and Belize.

All of them have their upsides and downsides.

 

Vanuatu is a pure tax haven and super peaceful. Low vaccination rate.

Can just buy 10 years residency for whole family online for 12k USD, easiest process in the world. English-speaking country, low crime rate, super beautiful nature. Low rate of digitalization. But sadly NO FREEHOLD property, this is the biggest downside. So only renting or buying a land, building everything upon and then after 50 years it goes back to the government.

 

Paraguay got territorial taxation, low vaccination rate. Many free-thinking expats moved there in the last years. You are even able to officially establish your own colony, like a state in a state. Residency is quite easy to get but my Thai wife needs a visa, we are working on that right now just in case. 

Medium crime rate, but therefore super cheap and amazing freehold property. Like 40 hectares for 120k USD. Perfect to build a farm for the future of our kids.

 

And so on, too lazy to elaborate about Bahamas and Belize, but main downside of them is they have a substantially higher crime rate, which I need to consider as a family father.

[FarAway]

7 hours ago, mikebell said:

Where will you go?  I am considering Laos.

 

Well my three main points that I am looking for is:

 

- Either no Personal Income Tax or a system of territorial taxation so I pay 0% tax

- a low vaccination rate (as that indicates not blindly following the herd, beneficial for now and the future)

- high amount of personal freedom

 

Laos got nothing of that.

 

So right now I am considering Vanuatu, Paraguay, Bahamas and Belize.

All of them have their upsides and downsides.

 

Vanuatu is a pure tax haven and super peaceful. Low vaccination rate.

Can just buy 10 years residency for whole family online for 12k USD, easiest process in the world. Just 2 weeks from payment to receiving the Permanent Residency.

English-speaking country, low crime rate, super beautiful nature. Low rate of digitalization. But sadly NO FREEHOLD property, this is the biggest downside. So only renting or buying a land, building everything upon and then after 50 years it goes back to the government. Which is really really <deleted> up

 

Paraguay got territorial taxation, low vaccination rate. Many free-thinking expats moved there in the last years. You are even able to officially establish your own colony, like a state in a state. Residency is quite easy to get but my Thai wife needs a visa, we are working on that right now just in case. 

Medium crime rate, but therefore super cheap and amazing freehold property. Like 40 hectares for 120k USD. Perfect to build a farm for the future of our kids.

 

And so on, too lazy to elaborate about Bahamas and Belize, but main downside of them is they have a substantially higher crime rate, which I need to consider as a family father.

[gejohesch]

12 hours ago, FarAway said:

Still a lot of countries to go if you wanna live tax-free:

 

Antigua and Barbuda	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[3][4]
Bahamas	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[5]
Bahrain	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[5]
Brunei	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[5]
Cayman Islands	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[5]
Kuwait	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[5]
Monaco	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[6]
Oman	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[5]
Pitcairn Islands	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[7]
Qatar	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[5]
Saint Barthélemy	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[8][Note 1]
Saint Kitts and Nevis	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[11]
Turks and Caicos Islands	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[12]
United Arab Emirates	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[5]
Vanuatu	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[13]
Vatican City	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[14]
Wallis and Futuna	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[15]
Western Sahara	No	No	No	No personal income tax.[16]
North Korea	No*	No**	No	No tax on income of resident citizens,[17] residence-based taxation of foreigners, territorial taxation of nonresident citizens.[18] * Except foreigners and nonresident citizens. ** Except foreigners.
Angola	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Anguilla	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[19]
Belize	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[20]
Bermuda	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Bhutan	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[21][22]
Bolivia	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[23][24]
Botswana	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
British Virgin Islands	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Costa Rica	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Democratic Republic of the Congo	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Djibouti	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[25]
Eswatini	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Georgia	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Grenada	Yes	No	No	Territorial Taxation.[26]
Guatemala	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Guinea-Bissau	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[27][28]
Hong Kong	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Lebanon	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Libya	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5][29]
Macau	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Malawi	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Marshall Islands	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[30]
Micronesia	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[31]
Namibia	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Nauru	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[32]
Nicaragua	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Palau	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[33]
Palestine	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Panama	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Paraguay	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[34][35][36][Note 2]
Seychelles	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Singapore	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]
Somalia	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[37]
Syria	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[38]
Tokelau	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[39]
Tuvalu	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[40]
Zambia	Yes	No	No	Territorial taxation.[5]

Does one have to become a priest to become resident in the Vatican?

[JackGats]

5 hours ago, Expat68 said:

All you have to do is live Thailand 179 days, another country of your choice 179 days, stopover 7 days, bit messy but no tax in any country 

Doesn't work like that. If you stay 180 days nowhere, other criteria (citizenship, where your bank is, ...) may kick in. You are expected to be a tax resident somewhere, even if not a tax-paying one.

[gejohesch]

11 hours ago, misterphil said:

Filipina girls are far too cocky. No thanks. 

Too americanised to my liking. Not much proper and interesting culture compared to Thailand. Food is a lot better in Thailand too. Not talking about the females' side here.

[JackGats]

8 minutes ago, FarAway said:

 

Well my three main points that I am looking for is:

 

- Either no Personal Income Tax or a system of territorial taxation

- a low vaccination rate (as that indicates not blindly following the herd, beneficial for the future)

- high amount of personal freedom

 

Laos got nothing of that.

 

So right now I am considering Vanuatu, Paraguay, Bahamas and Belize.

All of them have their upsides and downsides.

 

Vanuatu is a pure tax haven and super peaceful. Low vaccination rate.

Can just buy 10 years residency for whole family online for 12k USD, easiest process in the world. English-speaking country, low crime rate, super beautiful nature. Low rate of digitalization. But sadly NO FREEHOLD property, this is the biggest downside. So only renting or buying a land, building everything upon and then after 50 years it goes back to the government.

 

Paraguay got territorial taxation, low vaccination rate. Many free-thinking expats moved there in the last years. You are even able to officially establish your own colony, like a state in a state. Residency is quite easy to get but my Thai wife needs a visa, we are working on that right now just in case. 

Medium crime rate, but therefore super cheap and amazing freehold property. Like 40 hectares for 120k USD. Perfect to build a farm for the future of our kids.

 

And so on, too lazy to elaborate about Bahamas and Belize, but main downside of them is they have a substantially higher crime rate, which I need to consider as a family father.

Countries with tax-free foreign pensions: Uruguay, Peru, Colombia. The last two have girls as well.

[gejohesch]

4 minutes ago, JackGats said:

Doesn't work like that. If you stay 180 days nowhere, other criteria (citizenship, where your bank is, ...) may kick in. You are expected to be a tax resident somewhere, even if not a tax-paying one.

I tend to agree. As a EU citizen, I was clearly told (I asked!) by my home country tax authorities and they said loud and clear "if you travel around and are not taxable anywhere, then by default you will become taxable here". How much taxable depends of course on the particular country's rules.

[FarAway]

5 hours ago, Expat68 said:

All you have to do is live Thailand 179 days, another country of your choice 179 days, stopover 7 days, bit messy but no tax in any country 

Yes, indeed. That is considered a perpetual traveler.

But sadly when you are nowhere a tax resident, you obviously do not have any TIN. And without TIN, you cannot open bank accounts with offshore banks. So it is okay if you live month by month, but if you wanna size up your game and acquire real estate and so on, you need a solid bank and they will just onboard you with a TIN.

 

[harleyclarkey]

10 hours ago, alanrchase said:

I have no issues with my big bank. The issues are all due to government regulations imposed on that big bank. These new issues are all due to CRS compliance, nothing to do with the banks. Brits that used to chuckle at US citizens and the way they were treated by the IRS are now going to have to swallow the same medicine. 

Yes Alan,  there are some good banks and they will treat you well - if you have funds and they make a profit from yiu. 

But have a bad day and they will Bury you with no conscience or loyalty for past business or performance. 

In Ireland during the Celtic Tiger the banks literally threw money at everyone, including me. They are wholly responsible for the frantic spending and actually gave mortgages of 110%!! Incredible, looking back. 

My bank manager rang me to tell me that I "was undetnborrowed! I will lend you whatever you want" Thank goodness I refused and survived. 

When it all went belly up the banks moved all of their managers around and screwed anyone who had repayment issues. Then our beloved government sold these mortgages at knock down prices to vulture funds who cleaned up billions. 

Despicable. 

 

[Red Phoenix]

12 minutes ago, FarAway said:

 

Well my three main points that I am looking for is:

 

- Either no Personal Income Tax or a system of territorial taxation so I pay 0% tax

- a low vaccination rate (as that indicates not blindly following the herd, beneficial for now and the future)

- high amount of personal freedom

 

Laos got nothing of that.

 

So right now I am considering Vanuatu, Paraguay, Bahamas and Belize.

All of them have their upsides and downsides.

 

Vanuatu is a pure tax haven and super peaceful. Low vaccination rate.

Can just buy 10 years residency for whole family online for 12k USD, easiest process in the world. Just 2 weeks from payment to receiving the Permanent Residency.

English-speaking country, low crime rate, super beautiful nature. Low rate of digitalization. But sadly NO FREEHOLD property, this is the biggest downside. So only renting or buying a land, building everything upon and then after 50 years it goes back to the government. Which is really really <deleted> up

 

Paraguay got territorial taxation, low vaccination rate. Many free-thinking expats moved there in the last years. You are even able to officially establish your own colony, like a state in a state. Residency is quite easy to get but my Thai wife needs a visa, we are working on that right now just in case. 

Medium crime rate, but therefore super cheap and amazing freehold property. Like 40 hectares for 120k USD. Perfect to build a farm for the future of our kids.

 

And so on, too lazy to elaborate about Bahamas and Belize, but main downside of them is they have a substantially higher crime rate, which I need to consider as a family father.

You mentioned low vaccination rate, and that's indeed a definite Plus, as it clearly indicates that the country's government has not been mandating/coercing its citizens into forfeiting their right for bodily autonomy.

[FarAway]

2 hours ago, Shetraveler said:

This, my good white man, is the definition of a loser.  

I know you're from my home country, probably ex-military?

Before I would fight senseless wars for rich people with a gun I would try to kill these rich people instead and succeed or die trying :)

[FarAway]

43 minutes ago, BritScot said:

Really! Obviously you were never here when he was in charge (gdp 12~14%) life for expats was 10 times better infact things regressed massively. From someone who was in Thailand living the life and saw the changes almost instantly. 

When Thaksin gained power in 2001 I was literally just stopping to poop my pampers a few years before. So no, but I know enough about this evil POS that I hate him with every cell of my body. 
Trust me, the last freedoms that we enjoy nowadays in Thailand will be gone soon because of him and his powerful friends. You will see.

[FarAway]

22 minutes ago, JackGats said:

Countries with tax-free foreign pensions: Uruguay, Peru, Colombia. The last two have girls as well.

I am not in the age bracket of pensions for another almost 40 years and additionally will never get any pension anyways because I never paid into any system in my whole life :D 

 

For me this whole pension system is organized state robbery :)  They take your money, keep it for decades and work with it and then you get it back bit by bit when inflation made it almost worthless.

If people would just have kept their money they paid into pensions and invested everything in gold, they would be way better off nowadays. It is literally state-organized robbery that you are just forced to participate in if you do not find a way around the system in general.

[pedro01]

33 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

Does one have to become a priest to become resident in the Vatican?

No - but you have to be good with children

[FarAway]

32 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

You mentioned low vaccination rate, and that's indeed a definite Plus, as it clearly indicates that the country's government has not been mandating/coercing its citizens into forfeiting their right for bodily autonomy.

No man, it mainly have something to do with the culture of a population and their resistance. Governments can mandate what they want, if local people do not obey they can eat their <deleted>.

 

In Guadeloupe, part of France overseas territories, they tried to mandate it as well. Local population blocked the main road with burning barricades and threatened the health minister with death. It worked, vaccination rate of like 35%.

 

Or Bulgaria/Romania. Both around 30-40% and most of them are fake, I know almost no one there got the shots. Even big doctors there told people to not get it and issued vaccination certificates without the needle instead.

 

Thailand is just a country of low-testosterone men that do not know how to resist. Same as in every other Asian country. In Japan COVID mania and digitalization is RIFE and its the country with the men with the lowest amount of testosterone. 

I dont know if its genetically or cultural, but will obviously find out if my wife and me will create a boy in the future :D 

 

While in Africa, very high testosterone men, no one wore masks and most just refused the vaccines. No mass deaths, by the way :) 

Edited October 12, 2023 by FarAway

[thailand49]

2 hours ago, topt said:

I'm a Brit and not sure what you are referring to? 

If pension freeze than that's specific to certain countries - not all as you are well aware.

Since you mention pension.  I get this from other Brit's who Live here. 

They tell me those who chose to live in Thailand does not get a cola increase yearly.  You were ask to join put into system at the end there was a return now that they have run the program to the ground are blaming those who do chose in a global economy to live elsewhere are as to help with the deficit. In the US, our politician label us " Entitlement "  but at least we continue to obtain a cola 2023 was 8% up. 

Now when you were force to join was this noted? 

You have a massive budget for foreign affairs that include Embassy around the world you have a huge expat community living here in Thailand yet they sold the land for the Embassy moved into some office in a building isolating their citizen that provide very in person serviced and lsdtvtime I look offer information on line. Brit's continue to pay the price for their leaders as I as a American for their shortcomings. While they ask you and I to help out borders are being overrun for anyone that crosses not only are they crossing they receive benefits we citizen could only dream but ask us to pay for them.

From your remark you seem happy with it. 

I once happen to be back in the States tagged along with a friend to a rally there he was just ousted congressional house speaker McCarthy talking use the word Entitlement for my benefit I laid into him verbally like white on rice. 

Now they want to tax or Help Thailand tax your benefits which is already taxed.

Tell me am I on the wrong track? 

[JCauto]

1 hour ago, kingstonkid said:

YOu seem to have an idea about this how does it work if our hoe country is already deducting tax revenue from payments

Then you take those records and they calculate the tax after those deductions. 

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, BritScot said:

Really! Obviously you were never here when he was in charge (gdp 12~14%) life for expats was 10 times better infact things regressed massively. From someone who was in Thailand living the life and saw the changes almost instantly. 

I agree. There was even a window when resident foreigners were allowed to apply for the health care system and were issued cards.

[stix40]

6 hours ago, alanrchase said:

No, just a Brit who saw this coming several years ago. Used to be regular topics asking when Thailand was going to start complying, will a Thai TIN be needed etc.. Exactly how it will affect my tax situation is yet to be seen.

I guess your correct Alan

3 certainties in life 

Death

Tax and a nurse ! 

[happydreamer]

Does anyone know how the tax system works here?  In other words, in the uS we have brackets whereby we are taxed incrementally...so

 

10% on the first 11K

12% on anything between $11,001 – $44,725

22% on anything between  $44,726 – $95,375

24%on anything between   $95,376 – $182,100

32% on anything between $182,101 – $231,250

 

And it just gets worse from there.  Does anyone know if it's like that here or if its just a flat rate based on the total amount?

 

[BritScot]

1 hour ago, FarAway said:

When Thaksin gained power in 2001 I was literally just stopping to poop my pampers a few years before. So no, but I know enough about this evil POS that I hate him with every cell of my body. 
Trust me, the last freedoms that we enjoy nowadays in Thailand will be gone soon because of him and his powerful friends. You will see.

Sorry but you know nothing. You must have been fed lots of anti democracy and green Mafia spin. You really need some education because your so far off the mark. I hated Thaksin but by god he was the best thing for Thailand and the Thai people voted for him and would do again. Ask yourself one question "Why is Thailand not as prosperous as Japan or South Korea? And then research the global richest and ask yourself how poorly paid Thai generals are all $ millionaires or even billionaires?

[Jenkins9039]

11 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

you earn abroad and do not pay tax there you pay it here

No, this is incorrect.

 

If you earn abroad. It's tax free UNLESS you remit it, for example, you have a consultancy company in HK which you are paid by, into a account outside of Thailand, it's tax free.

 

If you remit it you pay tax.

 

At the moment that is the way it is, same if you own a company overseas, or have equity and majority stake in a company overseas, or dividends overseas, or real estate overseas.

 

You will only pay tax on the remitted (into Thailand) and say you earn in 2023 but bring in in 2025 then you pay tax in 2025 - only if you are tax resident 180 days + 

 

If you bounce around (non-tax resident anywhere and deposit the funds into Thailand and spend 179 days in Thailand it's tax free...

[Jenkins9039]

13 hours ago, Flying Saucage said:

All the UN Aganda 2030 is about total and global control of the people, and the de-banking to force the people to submit to this new-world-order is one of the means they introduce to implement this total control.

 

Nobody asks for CBDCs and a cashless society, nobody asks digital ID, and this all has nothing to do with a climate change or whatsoever. It's just to take everything from the people.

 

Finally your will lose your freedom, your house, your car, your wealths. You will own nothing but be happy is what they tell you in their own words. You will live somewhere in a so called 'SMART' 15-minutes city under total control, forced to eat insects, while your land will owned by the globalists. This is not a conspiracy theory. This is what they tell you in their own words already today. 

 

I left Europe as Thailand is some  years behind in this agenda. But the new government seems to be keen on accelerate everything now.

You'll own nothing and be happy.

[Jenkins9039]

31 minutes ago, happydreamer said:

Does anyone know how the tax system works here?  In other words, in the uS we have brackets whereby we are taxed incrementally...so

 

10% on the first 11K

12% on anything between $11,001 – $44,725

22% on anything between  $44,726 – $95,375

24%on anything between   $95,376 – $182,100

32% on anything between $182,101 – $231,250

 

And it just gets worse from there.  Does anyone know if it's like that here or if its just a flat rate based on the total amount?

 

Taxable income (Baht)	Tax rate %
1-150,000	Exempt
150,001-300,000	5%
300,001-500,000	10%
500,001-750,000	15%
750,001-1,000,000	20%
1,000,001-2,000,000	25%
2,000,001-5,000,000	30%
5,000,001 and over	35%

[kingstonkid]

33 minutes ago, BritScot said:

Sorry but you know nothing. You must have been fed lots of anti democracy and green Mafia spin. You really need some education because your so far off the mark. I hated Thaksin but by god he was the best thing for Thailand and the Thai people voted for him and would do again. Ask yourself one question "Why is Thailand not as prosperous as Japan or South Korea? And then research the global richest and ask yourself how poorly paid Thai generals are all $ millionaires or even billionaires?

as to whether was Thaksin a good leader, I think it is safe to say that he was not the worst.  ths military elite rule has hurt.

 

As to Generals making billions it is easy.  First, they all come from families that are well if not military hierarchy.  They pay for nothing.  So they can invest their money.

I am sure that a certain portion of the cost of things sees its way to their pockets.

[ukrules]

3 hours ago, gejohesch said:

I tend to agree. As a EU citizen, I was clearly told (I asked!) by my home country tax authorities and they said loud and clear "if you travel around and are not taxable anywhere, then by default you will become taxable here". How much taxable depends of course on the particular country's rules.

This is for the UK from here but widely known : https://www.bdo.co.uk/en-gb/insights/tax/private-client/leaving-the-uk

 

 

To summarise - if you don't go to the UK then you're automatically non resident if you spend less than 15 days per year there or 45 in a 3 year period.

 

For me, I've spend about 1 week there in the last 15 years and that was about 10 years ago.

 

You still have to pay tax on UK earnings though even as a non resident - for example - if you're renting some houses out, etc.

 

Edit: I don't think this is a new thing since the UK left the EU but I'm not sure.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by ukrules