Thailand needs to calm down it's rush to EV !

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, motdaeng said:

every new development or innovation also brings negative side effects. mass production of electric cars has barely

been around for 10 years, and in another 10 years, electromobility will have further evolved because the potential is

just started to kick in ...

 

perhaps in 20 years, there will be better alternatives to electric cars, who knows. but internal combustion engines (ICE)

have no potential anymore and can hardly be the future solution.

 

we all should know, pollution and noise make people sick (or dying) ... if you live in a bigger city (eg. chiang mai etc) you know what i mean ..

ICE's will be around at least until 2050, because there simply isn't enough lithium and other materials mined to meet replacement needs. Lithium output would need to be expanded tenfold.

They will still be around for heavy haulage, no trucking company is going to be interested in a semi-trailer, B-double or truck which has half its payload wiped out by the weight of its battery.

[KhunLA]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Maybe not on AN, plenty out there otherwise.

 

How about posting some facts on price and performance? All you are doing is begging the question when you make the statement "they are priced the same", then attempt to deflect my question by going off on a tangent about place of manufacture.

 

Let me help you out. A small Ora Good Cat has a starting price of 840,000 baht. A Nissan Micra or March is less than 500,000 baht.

 

Now kindly stop posting complete nonsense.

Already posted price comparisons of like vehicles, and you are doing an apple & oranges comparison.

 

Neta V would be better @ 549k, but still out classes the entry level ICEVs in that price range, if you can even find one.

 

Best you'll find in a MT Yaris ... NO thanks.

Celerio, March, Micra .... no, and silly comparisons.

 

This is TH Motoring forum, and OP is taking about TH, so other 'planet savers' elsewhere are irrelevant.

 

 

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

You clearly don’t know how to read a graph!

 

 

The calculus used by Volvo says the results depend in large measure on the source of electricity its customers use to charge their vehicles and the 2 year old report said that the grid is greening all the time, so it’s findings are already out of date. 

 

In my case I drive my EVs using excess power produced from my home solar. Many EV owners here in Thailand have solar.

 

The report said that internal combustion technology has had over a century to get where it is today. EV technology, on the other hand, is still in its infancy. Improvements in battery technology are happening almost daily. Battery recycling operations are ramping up around the world, which will significantly reduce the need to mine lithium and other natural resources, like nickel and cobalt, that are used to make today’s lithium-ion batteries.

 

The report is not without it’s critics, It claims part of the reason its electric cars create more emissions in the production phase is because they use more aluminum, yet the charts that accompany the report show the gasoline-powered XC40 has an aluminum content of 34%, while the XC40 Recharge uses 30% aluminum and the C40 Recharge 29%.

 

 

Another example of begging the question, with the statement: " Many EV owners here in Thailand have solar".

If you can post actual figures from an independent, authoritative source, it's an improvement.

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

ICE's will be around at least until 2050, because there simply isn't enough lithium and other materials mined to meet replacement needs. Lithium output would need to be expanded tenfold.

They will still be around for heavy haulage, no trucking company is going to be interested in a semi-trailer, B-double or truck which has half its payload wiped out by the weight of its battery.

Wrong again, lithium is actually extremely abundant.

 

You did finally get one thing correct, EV trucking (long haul) has a ways to go before practically applied.   But please, get rid of diesel, as direct link to health issues, even leading to death from the exhaust.

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Another example of begging the question, with the statement: " Many EV owners here in Thailand have solar".

If you can post actual figures from an independent, authoritative source, it's an improvement.

Most don't admits to officially having solar, so that's not going to happen.

Edited October 15, 2023 by KhunLA

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

Already posted price comparisons of like vehicles, and you are doing an apple & oranges comparison.

 

Neta V would be better @ 549k, but still out classes the entry level ICEVs in that price range, if you can even find one.

 

Best you'll find in a MT Yaris ... NO thanks.

Celerio, March, Micra .... no, and silly comparisons.

 

This is TH Motoring forum, and OP is taking about TH, so other 'planet savers' elsewhere are irrelevant.

 

 

Neta V sounds like the Lightburn Zeta of many decades ago, what's the information on reliability and after-sales service?

You keep using the word silly as if you have a patent on it. Attacking the poster instead of the facts is dishonest, argument ad hominem.

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Wrong again, lithium is actually extremely abundant.

 

You did finally get one thing correct, EV trucking (long haul) has a ways to go before practically applied.   But please, get rid of diesel, as direct link to health issues, even leading to death from the exhaust.

Lithium is extremely abundant, yes. When did I say it was in short supply due to scarcity of lithium ore? Not enough mines is the problem.

IIRC you were posting the proposition lithium could be extracted from seawater. Good luck with getting 1 kg of lithium from 55,000 tonnes of seawater, when the average EV requires 60 kg. Now that really was silly.

[Lacessit]

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Most don't admits to officially having solar, so that's not going to happen.

So I am just supposed to take the word of an EV co-religionist?

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, Negita43 said:

Thanks again - as I am sure you will have realised by now I am a complete novice on the subject of EVs

Always happy to help someone with an open mind

[BritManToo]

16 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Neta V would be better @ 549k, but still out classes the entry level ICEVs in that price range, if you can even find one.

Suzuki Celerio ICE 320kbht, around 1/2 the price of your Neta.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Every point in the OP has beed addresses at least more than once.

 

So has the issue of fires you raised, that’s been addressed to you on multiple occasions.

 

So has your living 65km away from a charging station, you’ve already been told you don’t need any within 150km and why.

 

You don’t need to upgrade your meter, you can even charge on a 5/15A meter, overnight will replace most if not all your use the day before.  I myself charge overnight at 10amp when needed, my PEA supply is very weak.

 

I am not going to play this game of repeating answers to the same old Luddites who regurgitate the same old ill informed points.

 

 

So if I disagree with you and you believe that you are perfect, what happened to discussion. 

 

You seem to believe that EV owners are ALWAYS right and everybody who has a different opinion to you is automatically wrong.

 

Nothing like a good bit of bias is there?

 

Not everybody who chooses not to buy an EV is a Luddite.

 

BTW if you don't like my posts on the subject, simply skip over them.

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, TorquayFan said:

JB that's rubbish . . . .

Am I the only one who thinks this poster might like Pontiac’s?

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

Neta V sounds like the Lightburn Zeta of many decades ago, what's the information on reliability and after-sales service?

You keep using the word silly as if you have a patent on it. Attacking the poster instead of the facts is dishonest, argument ad hominem.

You really think comparing a Micra or March to and OGC isn't a silly comparison?

 

Then extremely ignorant would be a better reason, for such a silly comparison.

 

March was such a great car, Nissan discontinued it last year.  March engine specs:

 

Ora Good Cat:

143 PS (141 hp or 105 kW)

210 Nm of torque N

Neta V:

95 PS (94 hp or 70 kW)

150 Nm of torque

[hydraides]

Hydrogen vehicles are the way forward

[khunjake]

During our drive from upcountry down to Rayong last week, I was shocked to see how many BYD and GWM dealerships were open now and even more in the groundbreaking process. The Japanese motor companies better wake up or else it all gonna be chinese ev’s out here. 

[In the jungle]

1 minute ago, hydraides said:

Hydrogen vehicles are the way forward

No they are not.

[billd766]

5 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Battery longevity has already been addressed elsewhere, many times. As I’m sure you’re aware if you have a really read all the EV posts.

 

I’m not going to repeat them again, go and read the other threads, you’re just rehashing old posts.

What a surprise.

 

Somebody else disagrees with you about EVs.

 

Your response is to tell them to visit other threads.

 

Why should they, when they responded to your post in this thread?

[Bandersnatch]

25 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Another example of begging the question, with the statement: " Many EV owners here in Thailand have solar".

If you can post actual figures from an independent, authoritative source, it's an improvement.

Based on comments in the EVs in Thailand discussion, many start with solar then get an EV. I am also a member of number of Thai EV groups and hear similar comments.
 

I am not aware of any studies on the subject here in Thailand, but once people get solar and realise the massive surplus of energy that is generated in the middle of the day it really is a only common sense to consider an EV you can drive for free.

 

Here is a graph of power generation from one of my inverters.

 

 

[KhunLA]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Suzuki Celerio ICE 320kbht, around 1/2 the price of your Neta.

Celerio @ 416k for AT

Maximum power (PS/ rpm) 68/ 6,000 Maximum torque 90 Nm/ 3,500rpm

Length (mm) 3,600

Width (mm) 1,600

Height(mm) 1,540

254 litres of luggage

 

Neta V:

95 PS (94 hp or 70 kW)

150 Nm of torque

Length: 4070 mm. 

Width: 1690 mm. 

Height:1540 mm

rear luggage space of 335 liters

 

I'd definitely spring for the 143k more, and never have to buy petrol again, or oil changes/tune ups.   ROI rather quickly.  Along with, actually enjoy driving it.

[In the jungle]

22 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Suzuki Celerio ICE 320kbht, around 1/2 the price of your Neta.

That's what I bought this year as a daily driver.  It's fun to drive and it has a proper gearbox. 

 

My annual fuel bill is less than it costs to insure an EV.

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, In the jungle said:

No they are not.

The technology is there, it's a matter of getting the capital for full development.

The fossil fuel industry knows hydrogen is far more of a threat to it than EV's, and is responding accordingly.

[In the jungle]

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Celerio @ 416k for AT

Maximum power (PS/ rpm) 68/ 6,000 Maximum torque 90 Nm/ 3,500rpm

Length (mm) 3,600

Width (mm) 1,600

Height(mm) 1,540

254 litres of luggage

 

Neta V:

95 PS (94 hp or 70 kW)

150 Nm of torque

Length: 4070 mm. 

Width: 1690 mm. 

Height:1540 mm

rear luggage space of 335 liters

 

I'd definitely spring for the 143k more, and never have to buy petrol again, or oil changes/tune ups.   ROI rather quickly.  Along with, actually enjoy driving it.

Neta is too slow and heavy and looks like Noddy's car.

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Based on comments in the EVs in Thailand discussion, many start with solar then get an EV. I am also a member of number of Thai EV groups and hear similar comments.
 

I am not aware of any studies on the subject here in Thailand, but once people get solar and realise the massive surplus of energy that is generated in the middle of the day it really is a only common sense to consider an EV you can drive for free.

 

Here is a graph of power generation from one of my inverters.

 

 

Being one of the first people in Australia to have solar panels on my house, I have no problem at all in accepting your data.

What I was questioning is the percentage of people who take the next step from an EV to fueling said EV from solar.

Your electricity is not quite free, there is the sunk cost of capital equipment to be recovered first. IIRC, in my case it was about 2.5 years.

 

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Maybe not on AN, plenty out there otherwise.

 

How about posting some facts on price and performance? All you are doing is begging the question when you make the statement "they are priced the same", then attempt to deflect my question by going off on a tangent about place of manufacture.

 

Let me help you out. A small Ora Good Cat has a starting price of 840,000 baht. A Nissan Micra or March is less than 500,000 baht.

 

Now kindly stop posting complete nonsense.

OMG. You might be a chemist or whatever but it seems like you don’t know much about comparing like for like. 
 

My BYD Dolphin costs 850,000, a BMW x5 costs 6,7 million? Ridiculous comparison, don’t you think?

[Gweiloman]

43 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Lithium is extremely abundant, yes. When did I say it was in short supply due to scarcity of lithium ore? Not enough mines is the problem.

IIRC you were posting the proposition lithium could be extracted from seawater. Good luck with getting 1 kg of lithium from 55,000 tonnes of seawater, when the average EV requires 60 kg. Now that really was silly.

As the need for lithium grows, so would the number of mines. Any half decent businessman will tell you that.

[Lacessit]

13 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Celerio @ 416k for AT

Maximum power (PS/ rpm) 68/ 6,000 Maximum torque 90 Nm/ 3,500rpm

Length (mm) 3,600

Width (mm) 1,600

Height(mm) 1,540

254 litres of luggage

 

Neta V:

95 PS (94 hp or 70 kW)

150 Nm of torque

Length: 4070 mm. 

Width: 1690 mm. 

Height:1540 mm

rear luggage space of 335 liters

 

I'd definitely spring for the 143k more, and never have to buy petrol again, or oil changes/tune ups.   ROI rather quickly.  Along with, actually enjoy driving it.

Missing statistic - relative kerb masses.

I can't say being heavier improves handling. It probably steers like a cow on roller skates in corners.

[In the jungle]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Missing statistic - relative kerb masses.

I can't say being heavier improves handling. It probably steers like a cow on roller skates in corners.

Celerio manual weighs 785kg

 

Neta.  Don't know, don't care but a lot.

[Bandersnatch]

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

What I was questioning is the percentage of people who take the next step from an EV to fueling said EV from solar.

Your electricity is not quite free, there is the sunk cost of capital equipment to be recovered first. IIRC, in my case it was about 2.5 years.

In this discussion I have seen 3 people who have both solar and an EV, there maybe be more.

 

I already said I have not seen a Thai study so can’t give you an exact % 

 

Most people get solar to power their house first, but in my graph above it should quite clear that the excess solar is “free power” and in my case it is curtailed. 

[Gweiloman]

3 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

In this discussion I have seen 3 people who have both solar and an EV, there maybe be more.

 

I already said I have not seen a Thai study so can’t give you an exact % 

 

Most people get solar to power their house first, but in my graph above it should quite clear that the excess solar is “free power” and in my case it is curtailed. 

Getting free mileage from the sun. Can't complain. And the Dolphin is a joy to drive. 0 - 100 in 7 seconds. The red Suzuki driver that was next to me at the traffic lights didn't know what hit him. He was left smelling my non existent fumes lol.

[DavisH]

18 hours ago, McTavish said:

Crazy thing is we'd save the planet much faster by installing roof top solar, allow EV's to evolve more slowly.

Or simply reduce deforestation worldwide, or plant more trees. They are your carbon dioxide sinks. Human development/industrialisation is the problem, not ICE vehicles.