Non-O visa from Trang but live in Chiang Mai

[bamboozled]

Hi folks, as above, I was issued a non-O retirement through Trang immigration. I am fixing to go to Chiang Mai immigration, where I live, to renew my TM30 and certificate of residency as I need to renew my 5-year driver's license. Is there any issue here?

Also, I'm curious, my old TM30 and house contract have remained the same. That is, my address has not changed. Do I need all new documents or is it just a formality and the old documents (rental contract and old TM30) will suffice? Issue being that in the past landlady made herself scarce when I brought up the need for ID and house book but I was lucky enough to get the TM30 after explaining the situation.

 

Thanks and cheers, Bamboozled.

[Red Phoenix]

4 hours ago, bamboozled said:

Hi folks, as above, I was issued a non-O retirement through Trang immigration. I am fixing to go to Chiang Mai immigration, where I live, to renew my TM30 and certificate of residency as I need to renew my 5-year driver's license. Is there any issue here?

Also, I'm curious, my old TM30 and house contract have remained the same. That is, my address has not changed. Do I need all new documents or is it just a formality and the old documents (rental contract and old TM30) will suffice? Issue being that in the past landlady made herself scarce when I brought up the need for ID and house book but I was lucky enough to get the TM30 after explaining the situation.

 

Thanks and cheers, Bamboozled.

Strange as it may sound it is of little relevance 'where you live'. 

The important thing is where you have your 'address for Immigration purposes'.  And that's the Imm Office of the province that provided you with your current Non Imm O Visa and/or current 1-year extension of the Permission to stay from that Visa.

You wrote "I was issued a non-O retirement through Trang immigration".  That being the case, you will NOT be provided with any Imm service from another office. 

So if you want to get hold of a Residence Certificate issued by Chiang-Mai Imm Office, you would have to relocate to an address in Chiang-Mai province, and then issue a TM-30 notifying Chiang-Mai Imm Office that this is now your address in Thailand.  Only when that TM-30 has been accepted by the CM Imm Office, will you then be able to do your 1-year extensions and 90-day reports or apply for a Res. Cert, Re-Entry Permit, etc at the CM Imm Office.  

[DrJack54]

16 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Only when that TM-30 has been accepted by the CM Imm Office, will you then be able to do your 1-year extensions

I'm not so sure.

If the OP obtained his non O at certain office then my understanding is that for his first extension it would need to be done at that office (Trang)

A TM30 (change of office) won't cut it 

Of course after initial extension he can move to another province and do TM30 and do subsequent extensions. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by DrJack54

[Red Phoenix]

9 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I'm not so sure.

If the OP obtained his non O at certain office then my understanding is that for his first extension it would need to be done at that office (Trang)

A TM30 (change of office) won't cut it 

Of course after initial extension he can move to another province and do TM30 and do subsequent extensions. 

Yes, that's correct.  If he applied for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa at Trang Imm Office, his first 1-year extension of stay application also has to be done at that same Office.  

If he already has a 1-year extension of stay application issued by Trang Imm Office, he would have to relocate to a Chiang Mai province if he wants to receive a Res. Cert. from the CM Imm Office. This has to be done by notifying the CM Imm Office via a TM-30 of him having relocated to an address in their province.  Without such approved TM-30 by the CM Imm Office, the OP would not be provided by any service from CM Imm Office.

[bamboozled]

Thanks guys. What I need right now is a new driver's license. Mine is expired. I live and rent in Chiang Mai but visa was issued in Trang just recently via agent. My plan is to renew my TM30 with my address in Chiang Mai. The same address I've been at for the last 7 years or so and the same one on my last TM30. With a new visa, my understanding is that the TM30 has to be updated anyway. Once I have the updated TM30, I need to get a certificate of residency to get the driver's license.

For the 90-day report, that can wait, um, about 83 days from now. Agent can do that via Trang for a small fee if I cannot do it in CM.

 

Maybe it won't work out. Is there any issue in going to immigration and having a go at it? Am I to be grilled about why I have a Trang visa?

 

Thanks!

Edited October 19, 2023 by bamboozled

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, bamboozled said:

. I live and rent in Chiang Mai but visa was issued in Trang just recently via agent

Not being pedantic...but think you mean that your 12 month extension stamp was issued in Trang then you at minimum would need to do a TM30.

Have you spoken to your agent. 

Where is he located.

Edited October 19, 2023 by DrJack54

[bigt3116]

1 hour ago, bamboozled said:

For the 90-day report, that can wait, um, about 83 days from now. Agent can do that via Trang for a small fee if I cannot do it in CM.

Your agent will not be able to do your 90 day report in Trang, because you will have filed a TM30 at your new address

 

[Liquorice]

This is just one of the many issues that can arise from using an agent.

 

@bamboozled can you clarify whether Trang just issued a 1-year extension of stay, or did it also include the initial Non Imm O as well.
Were the Non O and 1 year extension issued at the same time.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Liquorice

[bamboozled]

43 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Not being pedantic...but think you mean that your 12 month extension stamp was issued in Trang then you at minimum would need to do a TM30.

Have you spoken to your agent. 

Where is he located.

Agent is in Bkk. Well, I switched from Non-O marriage to Non-O retirement. I did not leave the country. So I guess it was an extension, you're right. They can do the cert. of residency using a TM30 from me or from hotel. But it's pricey and still leaves me with a TM30 that is not up to date.

[bamboozled]

31 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

Your agent will not be able to do your 90 day report in Trang, because you will have filed a TM30 at your new address

 

If I can get a new TM30 at my residence in CM I don't think I'll need them to do the 90 day. Am I wrong?

[bamboozled]

28 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

This is just one of the many issues that can arise from using an agent.

 

@bamboozled can you clarify whether Trang just issued a 1-year extension of stay, or did it also include the initial Non Imm O as well.
Were the Non O and 1 year extension issued at the same time.

Hmm, you're right, it was an extension of stay, changed from Non-O based on marriage to Non-O based on retirement.

[VocalNeal]

19 hours ago, bamboozled said:

I was issued a non-O retirement through Trang immigration.

One of the idiosyncrasies of using a certain visa agent in Bangkok. 🤔

[bigt3116]

Lives in the far north, extension done in the far south, agent in the centre of the country

 

Does not sound dodgy at all lol

[bamboozled]

Just now, bigt3116 said:

Lives in the far north, extension done in the far south, agent in the centre of the country

 

Does not sound dodgy at all lol

Don't knock it 'til you try it/need it. It's not any secret to the powers that be.

[bigt3116]

7 minutes ago, bamboozled said:

Don't knock it 'til you try it/need it. It's not any secret to the powers that be.

Very true, no problem with it at all.

 

However maybe immigration will

[bamboozled]

Just now, bigt3116 said:

Very true, no problem with it at all.

 

However maybe immigration will

Yes.... I have no idea how or why it all works. This was not the route I had intended to pursue but events didn't favor my previously laid plans and I had to scramble. Trying to get everything lubricated and set back on the straight and narrow as much as possible.

[Liquorice]

20 minutes ago, bamboozled said:

Hmm, you're right, it was an extension of stay, changed from Non-O based on marriage to Non-O based on retirement.

Trang would have used a local Provincial address to issue the extension.

 

You should file a new TM30 at CM.
You can then file your 90-day reports at CM and request a residence certificate.

 

CM have no reason to question the extension being issued in Trang as you're now filing a new TM30, however should they be inquisitive, merely state you stayed a period with a friend in Trang so renewed there, but have now returned to your CM address.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Liquorice

[bamboozled]

 

Just now, Liquorice said:

Trang would have used a local Provincial address to issue the extension.

 

You should file a new TM30 at CM.
You can then file your 90-day reports at CM and request a residence certificate.

I'm going to try just that. The other caveat is that last time I asked my landlady for her ID and house book to do a TM30 she made herself scarce and we never heard back from her. We explained to immigration and they were gracious enough to give me one with just the house rental contract. I have just asked her again for her ID and house book and hoping she complies. I'm not sure their motivation for not complying. I think it's just paranoia.

[bigt3116]

2 hours ago, bamboozled said:

I'm not sure their motivation for not complying. I think it's just paranoia.

She is worried about the tax implications

[DrJack54]

2 hours ago, bamboozled said:

Trying to get everything lubricated and set back on the straight and narrow as much as possible.

Have you met the financial requirements for your current extension.

If the agent "covered" those requirements then you will not be able to do your next extension without using an agent OR exit Thailand and start over 

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Have you met the financial requirements for your current extension.

If the agent "covered" those requirements then you will not be able to do your next extension without using an agent OR exit Thailand and start over 

That aside, it is possible for more immediate problems (though not really likely). Chiang Mai immigration will be well aware that the retirement extension was acquired using an irregular procedure. They will probably ignore this, but the wrong official might (for instance) demand to see a recent bank statement showing that the 800k baht has been maintained in the account, as required by the conditions of the extension.

[bamboozled]

6 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

She is worried about the tax implications

That's what I think, too.

[bamboozled]

5 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Have you met the financial requirements for your current extension.

If the agent "covered" those requirements then you will not be able to do your next extension without using an agent OR exit Thailand and start over 

Do you intend in a year? I am doing the monthly transfer method and will have over 12 months next time around. That is, if they accept my transfers. I guess if I am forced to leave or use the agent, well, there are worse things in the world. But who knows come 12 months where/how things will lie in any of this. Thanks for the heads up.

[bamboozled]

4 hours ago, BritTim said:

That aside, it is possible for more immediate problems (though not really likely). Chiang Mai immigration will be well aware that the retirement extension was acquired using an irregular procedure. They will probably ignore this, but the wrong official might (for instance) demand to see a recent bank statement showing that the 800k baht has been maintained in the account, as required by the conditions of the extension.

I suppose so. I certainly hope that doesn't happen. But anything can and sometimes does. Fingers crossed! ...There must be thousands of people going this route.

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, bamboozled said:

Do you intend in a year? I am doing the monthly transfer method and will have over 12 months next time around. That is, if they accept my transfers. I guess if I am forced to leave or use the agent, well, there are worse things in the world. But who knows come 12 months where/how things will lie in any of this. Thanks for the heads up.

I'm only guessing...seems your agent may have used money in bank for current extension and funds (money in bank) were not maintained for current year.

Yes the 12 monthly transfers you can show in bank however immigration will also look at your bank account for meeting money in the bank method.

IMO .,With 12 month of transfers you will be able to exit Thailand reenter visa exempt.

Obtain a non O retirement and obtain extension using monthly transfers 

[bamboozled]

3 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I'm only guessing...seems your agent may have used money in bank for current extension and funds (money in bank) were not maintained for current year.

Yes the 12 monthly transfers you can show in bank however immigration will also look at your bank account for meeting money in the bank method.

IMO .,With 12 month of transfers you will be able to exit Thailand reenter visa exempt.

Obtain a non O retirement and obtain extension using monthly transfers 

If I am showing 12 months of 65k transfers in a year, they shouldn't be looking for 800k, no? It is one or the other, as far as I know.

[DrJack54]

9 minutes ago, bamboozled said:

If I am showing 12 months of 65k transfers in a year, they shouldn't be looking for 800k, no? It is one or the other, as far as I know

I dont see it that way.

By way of example.... I have just now obtained current extension retirement using money in bank.

I'm thinking of changing to income method.

For the next 12 months I will do monthly transfers and ALSO maintain funds in bank.

When io looks at my bank statements they will see that I complied with money in bank and should accept monthly transfers for next extension.

The requirements are checked retrospectively. 

 

Exit Thailand and reenter and obtain new non O then can use your monthly 12 month transfers.

[bamboozled]

I think I understand. Is it 400k that has to be maintained at all times and 800k for 3 months prior to extension and 2 months after? It's all a bit new to me as I've never done retirement extension. I did marriage extension just once during Covid but I don't think I had to maintain 400k all year round. Just the 3 months prior and 2 months after, if my memory serves me. Then I went back to Savannakhet method which I had done many times. No one ever questioned my bank account or looked cross-eyed at me or the visa during my stay in Thailand or exiting or entering. It didn't ever cross my mind that it could be a problem, to be honest. Have you had io looking at your bank account in this manner, retrospectively, in this manner? That is the rule, I guess, isn't it? Glad you pointed it out to me. I have no idea how the agents and immigration jibe. Wish I knew!

[DrJack54]

7 minutes ago, bamboozled said:

I think I understand. Is it 400k that has to be maintained at all times and 800k for 3 months prior to extension and 2 months after?

You are close.

It's 2 months prior and 3 months after application and not below 400k in other months.

Many folk opt to just leave 800k + all year round to avoid slip ups.

And YES both methods are checked retrospectively. 

For cross over ...funds in bank to  monthly transfers my understanding is both need to be shown . (Without embassy letter) 

[bamboozled]

Embassy letter....sounds so quaint now.