UK Tax - New "SA Number"

[Mike Teavee]

Accountant who does my UK Tax return has emailed me to say HMRC has issued (& apparently physically sent to me in Thailand) a new "SA" number & can I let them know as soon as I receive it so they can update their records as apparently it's only valid for 1 week. 

 

My 1st problem is, I forgot to tell them that I moved 2 months ago! (Fixed)  - 2nd problem is, even if HMRC had my correct address in Thailand what are the odds of any snail mail arriving in 1 week, 3rd problem is I'm away for 3 weeks from next weekend!

 

Has anybody else received something similar? & what is a new "SA Code"?

 

 

TIA 

 

MTV 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[The Cyclist]

Snail mail, via airmail, from my pension providers takes about 6 weeks to get here.

 

7 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Has anybody else received something similar? & what is a new "SA Code"?

Not received anything, but could it be something to do with Self Assessment ?

[topt]

11 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

& what is a new "SA Code"?

Can't you ask your accountant as presumably they know?

As The Cyclist mentions SA suggests Self Assessment but the only nos. I know are for the different sections and the tax calculation......

I also can't see how it can be time sensitive........ 

[Mike Teavee]

40 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Snail mail, via airmail, from my pension providers takes about 6 weeks to get here.

 

Not received anything, but could it be something to do with Self Assessment ?

 

34 minutes ago, topt said:

Can't you ask your accountant as presumably they know?

As The Cyclist mentions SA suggests Self Assessment but the only nos. I know are for the different sections and the tax calculation......

I also can't see how it can be time sensitive........ 

Of course! the accountant does my Self Assessment returns so "SA" almost certainly relates to Self Assessment - Why they need a new number after 16 years of them doing it (& 23 years of me doing them myself!) I have no idea, but apparently HMRC has told them I need a new one & so they issued it to my (old) Thai address, valid for 1 week... 

 

Spoke to the accountant & they're happy to re-apply for a new "SA" number using my parents address in the UK (on the understanding that I am non-UK resident for tax) so hopefully will get it sorted next week.

 

Given all the recent talk about Thailand changing it's taxation of foreigners I started to get a little worried but it seems more something to do with HMRC changing their procedures/numbering than them coming gunning for me (Not that I have anything to hide after filing Tax Returns for 39 years... I'm "Only" 57!!!)   

Edited October 20, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[The Cyclist]

4 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Why they need a new number after 16 years of them doing it (& 23 years of me doing them myself!) I have no idea, but apparently HMRC has told them I need a new one

Might be something to do with this

 

https://www.xero.com/uk/programme/making-tax-digital/self-assessment-changes-mtd/

[Eff1n2ret]

13 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Might be something to do with this

 

https://www.xero.com/uk/programme/making-tax-digital/self-assessment-changes-mtd/

Thank goodness that by this time next year I will no longer be a landlord.

[Mike Teavee]

3 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Might be something to do with this

 

https://www.xero.com/uk/programme/making-tax-digital/self-assessment-changes-mtd/

Thanks, will read it in detail when I get home.

 

1st thought is that I wish I earned £50K pa as a landlord (or even my total income in the UK!), but I do use an accountant from when i did earn that kind of money so it could be they’re moving all their customers to that system. 

 
Accountant seems cool with me using my parents address, they know I’ve been Non-UK Tax resident for 15 years, so am sure it’s all good 👍🏻

 

Just curious if any other guys have been approached by HMRC with a similar request? 
 

 

[Mike Teavee]

5 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:

Thank goodness that by this time next year I will no longer be a landlord.

Am thinking exactly the same… 

 

I’m not a “Landlord”, I lived in a house that I worked hard to buy & the company I worked for asked me to go work overseas… 3 years it sat (Semi) empty (my Ex lived in it 2-3 days per week) until a mate in desperate needs asked to rent it & that’s when I became an “Accidental” landlord…

 

Return is <3% pa (after management fees & maintenance) would you invest in an asset like this? 
 

 

 

 

 

[Eff1n2ret]

16 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Thanks, will read it in detail when I get home.

 

1st thought is that I wish I earned £50K pa as a landlord (or even my total income in the UK!), but I do use an accountant from when i did earn that kind of money so it could be they’re moving all their customers to that system. 

 
Accountant seems cool with me using my parents address, they know I’ve been Non-UK Tax resident for 15 years, so am sure it’s all good 👍🏻

 

Just curious if any other guys have been approached by HMRC with a similar request? 
 

 

 

15 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Am thinking exactly the same… 

 

I’m not a “Landlord”, I lived in a house that I worked hard to buy & the company I worked for asked me to go work overseas… 3 years it sat (Semi) empty (my Ex lived in it 2-3 days per week) until a mate in desperate needs asked to rent it & that’s when I became an “Accidental” landlord…

 

Return is <3% pa (after management fees & maintenance) would you invest in an asset like this? 
 

 

 

 

 

How do you interpret this? - "Self Assessment goes digital from April 2026. All landlords and self-employed people earning above £50,000 will need to have compatible software in place by this date."

Is it only those earning 50K+ p.a., whether landlords or self-employed, or all landlords together with only those self-employed earning over 50K? I think it could have been worded better.

Either way it won't bother me. Like you I am an "accidental landlord" having rented out the house I used to live in. Over 14 years it's worked out ok, and the accumulated income (which I've never spent) is my health insurance here. But a combination of increasingly restrictive legislation against landlords and a desire to save my beneficiaries the bother of getting rid of it when I pop off in a year or two have caused the decision to sell the place when the tenants leave next year. I have an instant access account paying 4.5% at the moment so I stand to make just as much from the proceeds as I do from rent after the agents and their rapacious maintenance contractors have taken their slice.

[Mike Lister]

Presumably, the new rules do not apply to those of us who are not UK resident for tax purposes but are UK landlords and who use a UK accountant to file our self assessment returns?

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, Eff1n2ret said:

All landlords and self-employed people earning above £50,000 will need to have compatible software in place by this date."

I read that as all landlords earning > £50K but now you mention it could be read as All Landlords… … … PLUS  self-employed earning > £50k!

Hopefully it will be the 1st interpretation or it’s just one more kick in the nuts for guys who are just renting out their old home.

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

Presumably, the new rules do not apply to those of us who are not UK resident for tax purposes but are UK landlords and who use a UK accountant to file our self assessment returns?

I think they do apply to you as I’m in exactly the same situation as you & it was my UK accountant who made me aware of the need for a new SA number. 
 

Good news is your accountant will have the software so I doubt there will be any need for you to have it. 

[topt]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

I read that as all landlords earning > £50K but now you mention it could be read as All Landlords… … … PLUS  self-employed earning > £50k!

Hopefully it will be the 1st interpretation or it’s just one more kick in the nuts for guys who are just renting out their old home.

Here is the explanation from the horses mouth as it were......

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/making-tax-digital/overview-of-making-tax-digital

 

Quote

ou need to follow the requirements for Making Tax Digital for Income Tax if you are self-employed or a landlord from:

• 6 April 2026 if you have an annual business or property income of more than £50,000

• April 2027 if you have an annual business or property income of more than £30,000

Note it reduces to 30k from 2027 which will potentially bring quite a number of landlords into its net.......

 

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Presumably, the new rules do not apply to those of us who are not UK resident for tax purposes but are UK landlords and who use a UK accountant to file our self assessment returns?

It applies but as mentioned your accountant will presumably deal with it as he does your current tax return.

 

My memory is that originally this was going to apply to all landlords whatever the income level but they sensibly changed it along with pushing back the implementation date. Eventually I guess they will want everybody on it.

[OJAS]

On 10/20/2023 at 6:15 PM, Mike Teavee said:

Just curious if any other guys have been approached by HMRC with a similar request? 

 

Might your accountant be trying to set up a Government Gateway account for you, I wonder? Seems OK for tax agents or advisers to operate such accounts on behalf of their clients if the following link is to be believed:

 

https://www.gov.uk/log-in-register-hmrc-online-services/register

 

[noobexpat]

'Self Assessment UTR number' which is 10 digits. Unique Tax Reference. I think it might be that.

Govt gateway number is 12 digits.

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by noobexpat
spelling

[OJAS]

On 10/21/2023 at 10:52 AM, Eff1n2ret said:

But a combination of increasingly restrictive legislation against landlords and a desire to save my beneficiaries the bother of getting rid of it when I pop off in a year or two have caused the decision to sell the place when the tenants leave next year.

 

In addition many small landlords could, I strongly suspect, be finding themselves dragged into the 40% tax band while thresholds remain frozen.

 

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, noobexpat said:

'Self Assessment UTR number' which is 10 digits. Unique Tax Reference. I think it might be that.

Govt gateway number is 12 digits.

 

 

 

@Mike Teavee - how many digits does your mystical "new SA number" consist of?

 

[noobexpat]

4 hours ago, OJAS said:

 

@Mike Teavee - how many digits does your mystical "new SA number" consist of?

 

 

I think the only way he would know that is if he had received the number. He hasn't.

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, noobexpat said:

 

I think the only way he would know that is if he had received the number. He hasn't.

Exactly, sent to my old Thai address but apparently it expires in 1 week so I doubt I would get it in time even if they had my correct address. 
 

Fortunately HMRC (& my accountant) have my parents address as a correspondence address so have asked them to send it there

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[Mike Teavee]

6 hours ago, OJAS said:

 

@Mike Teavee - how many digits does your mystical "new SA number" consist of?

 

Will let you know as soon as I get a new one but I’m guessing it’s the Unique Tax Number

 

Certainly not going to be the Government Gateway ID (I have about 5 of them, I’m bad at remembering passwords so need to create a new one when I forget) or any “Fixed” number like my NH Number.