Study provides evidence of Covid-19 mRNA shots rewiring the immune system with unknown long-term effects

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, Red Phoenix said:

@xylophone  - Please do me a favor and put me on IGNORE too

Very happy to do so........one more anti-vax conspiracy theorist whose nonsense i won't have to see.

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

All of it. Until you provide credible links to back up all that nonsense that you spew, you will remain an uneducated dangerous purveyor of medical misinformation. If you want to keep responding to my posts expect the same as my previous replies. Your choice.

 

That's not a nice post Brian.

 

Your while argument is based around a theory. Mine is based on nature itself. Think you should be providing truths.

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, owl sees all said:

 

That's not a nice post Brian.

 

Your while argument is based around a theory. Mine is based on nature itself. Think you should be providing truths.

 

It wasn't supposed to be nice, facts hurt sometimes and will continue to hurt you until you crawl out of your little hole and get some education

[transam]

If so, in my case, probably for the better.....

[owl sees all]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

It wasn't supposed to be nice, facts hurt sometimes and will continue to hurt you until you crawl out of your little hole and get some education

Another not so nice post. I'm not rude to you about your mistaken beliefs.

 

I'm educated enough thanks Brian. You should think along a different pathway. Nature has all the answers we need.

Edited October 27, 2023 by owl sees all

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, owl sees all said:

Another not so nice post. I'm not rude to you about your mistaken beliefs.

 

I'm educated enough thanks Brian. You should think along  Nature has the answers.

I'm educated enough thanks Brian.

 

[transam]

Just now, owl sees all said:

Another not so nice post. I'm not rude to you about your mistaken beliefs.

 

I'm educated enough thanks Brian. You should think along  Nature has the answers.

Yeh, riiiiight, didn't do too well with many things most of us have been vaxed for to prevent death or disfigurement, has it.

It seems you are no doctor or scientist, just a fringe moaner..........🥴

[owl sees all]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I'm educated enough thanks Brian.

 

Look around you. Feel the energy beneath your feet.  And you simply trust a theory?

 

Nature has it all. We can't easily improve upon it. Messing with our DNA and the electron transport system and the kreb's cycle will not be any good. Could be the downfall for many who took the jab.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Look around you. Feel the energy beneath your feet.  And you simply trust a theory?

 

Nature has it all. We can't easily improve upon it. Messing with our DNA and the electron transport system and the kreb's cycle will not be any good. Could be the downfall for many who took the jab.

I'm sure your pass from the loony bin must have expired by now.

[owl sees all]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

I'm sure your pass from the loony bin must have expired by now.

You can have my covid shot Brian.

 

My gift to a fellow poster.

 

Over and out.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, owl sees all said:

You can have my covid shot Brian.

 

My gift to a fellow poster.

 

Over and out.

Don't need it, I had my shots 3 in total. 

[gamb00ler]

46 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Nature has all the answers we need.

Yes, thankfully mRNA was created by evolution a long, long time ago.  We just learned how to used it over the last couple of decades.  Perhaps similar to how we use natural plant proteins and enzymes to provide us nutrition and repair injuries.  Same, same!

[rattlesnake]

5 hours ago, watthong said:

 

Sorry but it's kind of late at this stage - for you I mean - don't you think? I don't want to elaborate any further. For fear of being accused of "hurling insults." A no-no by forum rules.

A pathetic, yet expected response.

[rattlesnake]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Don't need it, I had my shots 3 in total. 

Is a 4th one on the cards?

[Red Phoenix]

9 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Don't need it, I had my shots 3 in total. 

Remember this abbreviation > FLCCC - you might need it...

[Bkk Brian]

7 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

Is a 4th one on the cards?

Not sure, about 8 weeks ago I had to undergo emergency open surgery for an unexpected health issue and then had a stay in ICU for a bit. It left me with lung damage however it appears to be getting better. Being from the UK I am currently following their advice which is for another booster for at risk people only. If my lung continues to improve then I will stick with that advice for now. I am not in the age related need for boosters.

[Red Phoenix]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Not sure, about 8 weeks ago I had to undergo emergency open surgery for an unexpected health issue and then had a stay in ICU for a bit. It left me with lung damage however it appears to be getting better. Being from the UK I am currently following their advice which is for another booster for at risk people only. If my lung continues to improve then I will stick with that advice for now. I am not in the age related need for boosters.

Genuinely sorry to hear about your health condition. 

But did you consider that the mRNA shots you got, might be the instigator of that 'unexpected'  lung damage?

Imo taking another booster is not indicated in your case, as it are indeed the vulnerable - like yourself - who are at highest risk.  But less from catching covid-19 than from the immune system assault by another mRNA jab. 

Of course it is your body and health, so it's your decision and this post is just my (informed) opinion on the matter. 

Whatever you do, I wish you a speedy full recovery.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Genuinely sorry to hear about your health condition. 

But did you consider that the mRNA shots you got, might be the instigator of that 'unexpected'  lung damage?

Imo taking another booster is not indicated in your case, as it are indeed the vulnerable - like yourself - who are at highest risk.  But less from catching covid-19 than from the immune system assault by another mRNA jab. 

Of course it is your body and health, so it's your decision and this post is just my (informed) opinion on the matter. 

Whatever you do, I wish you a speedy full recovery.

No because the incident that occurred was in no way related, the lung damage was a by product of the operation (its quite common apparently). The operation was successful.

[jaywalker2]

On 10/25/2023 at 11:57 AM, connda said:

These EUA "vaccines" built on an mRNA platform completely bypassed long-term testing, and then was approved for human use (Comirnaty), again, without long-term testing.  Well the phamacutical companies are completely indemnified, so if they "made mistakes" that harm people's health.  Too bad.

"You are anti-vaxxer."

No.  I'm not.  I have no problem with shots built on traditional vaccine technology and which are proven to be sterilizing vaccines and have long-term testing and real-world use.  In other words, if you get the shot, you will not get the disease.  And I take rabies vaccines myself as I work with animals.  And I give my own animals vaccines.  Far from being "anti-vaxx" but over the last three years using pejoratives like "anti-vaxxer" and "conspiracy theorist" were commonly used by those who could not justify their own arguments, so they immediately fall back on ad-hominid attacks on those with whom they disagree. Can't support your own argument - then attack the character of the person you disagree with.   I saw plenty of that right here.

So I will take shots based on proven vaccine technology, but shots based on mRNA tech?  Nope. 

I won't even consider putting that stuff in my body, my family's bodies, or my animal's bodies until there are solid long-term meta-analysis studies showing both efficacy and safety.   And I don't trust regulators like the FDA which has a revolving door between those who supposedly regulate and the companies they regulate.  That's regulatory capture and it only benefits revenues and profits for pharmaceutical companies, and of course those regulators who move from the government watchdog for public safety to highly lucrative jobs with the companies they use to so-call regulate.

If after 7 to 10 years (a typical vaccine testing cycle) these shots are conclusively proved to be both safe and effective - even better - are sterilizing vaccines, then maybe I'd consider them.  For Covid though?  Probably not.
I had Covid.  It was a nothing-burger.  After three and a half years of extreme hyperbole and fear-monger, I catch the virus, and had a mild "flu-like" symptoms that were completely gone in 5 days.  Oh, by the way.  Every one of my extended family members who took the Covid shot (virtually all mandated <coerced> by their employers> came down with Covid before I did, and their kids too.  Me and my wife "unvaccinated?"  We didn't get until August of this year.  And again - it was nothing.  A nuisance.

So no, I'll never take the Covid (mRNA, AV, or inactivated virus) shots in the future either.  Anecdotally, I see no evidence within my own family that they work.  And I'm concerned for the long-term health of my family members who did take it. 

Over the long-term, we will eventually find the reality about these mRNA Covid 'vaccines' as well as the mRNA technology they are built up.  Good and bad.

While it's true that the vaccines were developed in a short amount of time, their safety has been monitored continuously for the past 3 years. That's how the issue of blood clots in the Johnson and Johnson (since taken off the market) and Astra Zeneca vaccines was discovered as well as the myocarditis/pericarditis issue. In fact, this has already been the most studied vaccine in history. So what it boils down to is whether you trust the mainstream science or the conspiracy theorists. And that depends on your psychology.

[jaywalker2]

On 10/27/2023 at 12:15 AM, rattlesnake said:

 

Because "working on it" and actually administering a product to billions of people under the guise of urgency is not the same thing.

 

Some of the main protagonists in the development of this product have confirmed its experimental aspect, such as Albert Bourla, Pfizer CEO, who was very reticent but forced into it:

“mRNA was a technology, but we had less experience, only two years working on this, and actually, mRNA was a technology that never delivered a single product until that day, not vaccine, not any other medicine. So it was very counterintuitive, and I was surprised when they suggested to me that this is the way to go, and I questioned it. And I asked them to justify how can you say something like that, but they came, and they were very, very convinced that this is the right way to go."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/washington-post-live/2022/03/10/transcript-wp-subscriber-exclusive-albert-bourla-author-moonshot-inside-pfizers-nine-month-race-make-impossible-possible/

 

Also notable was senior Pfizer executive Janine Small, who admitted that the company did not know whether its Covid vaccine prevented transmission of the virus when it rolled out the shots globally:

“Regarding the question around, um, did we know about stopping the immunisation [sic] before it entered the market? No, heh,” she said. “Uh, these, um, you know, we had to really move at the speed of science to really understand what is taking place in the market, and from that point of view we had to do everything at risk."

https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/pfizer-did-not-know-whether-covid-vaccine-stopped-transmission-before-rollout-executive-admits/news-story/f307f28f794e173ac017a62784fec414

Much has been made of the admission that the vaccine wasn't tested for transmission effects. The reason for that wasn't nefarious, it's just that it would have taken up to six more months of testing and health authorities didn't want to wait. The objective was to reduce hospitalization and death so hospitals and ICUs could begin functioning normally again. As it turned out, the original vaccine did reduce transmission in various ways, i.e. by preventing people from catching the virus, by reducing the time they were sick with it, reducing hospital admissions (where much of the transmission occured), etc. Respitory viruses are notoriously hard to control, however, as they mutate frequently, which makes developing an effective vaccine difficult.

[jaywalker2]

On 10/26/2023 at 4:00 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

It's telling that the same member supporting John Campbell as a legitimate source of COVID info is also giving his own unsupported summary of the research cited in the OP here.... 

 

Nowhere in the OP cited research does the study use the thread's headline language of "rewiring the immune system".  It's also a non-peer reviewed study, and even more telling, try finding any credible news report on its findings, if it's supposedly some kind of news-worthy research.

 

Here's the actual conclusion of the OP's cited study, which bears little to no resemblance to the OP's claims about it:

 

"Conclusion
Our results imply a major role for both IL-4/IL-13 as well as TNF in IgG4 class switching. These novel findings advance our understanding of IgG4 class switch dynamics, and may benefit future mRNA vaccine strategies, humoral tolerance induction, as well as treatment of IgG4 pathologies."

 

I don't hear any COVID vaccine alarm bells going off there.

 

And as for what to make of Campbell, this summary puts it in succinct form:

 

"Regarded as an evidence-based source of information about COVID-19 in 2020, Campbell—who has accrued nearly three million followers on YouTube to date—has since repeatedly published YouTube videos containing false or misleading claims about COVID-19 and COVID-19 vaccines. A list of related reviews published by Health Feedback can be found here."

 

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/analysis-adverse-event-variation-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-batches-doesnt-indicate-safety-problems-contrary-john-campbell/

 

And more here:

 

https://www.factcheck.org/person/john-campbell/

 

Misinformation peddling anti-vaxers of a feather flock together. 

 

 

 

IgG4 antibodies have both strengths and weaknesses. Because of their structure, they'll bind to the spike protein but they often lack the capacity to ramp up the immune response. A heightened immune response results in a high level of inflammation (fever, chills, aches, etc.) So if igG4 antibodies are being substittued for other types, there will be lower levels of inflammation but perhaps a weaker immune response.

 

So it's misleading to say it makes you "more likely" to get covid. More likely compared to what? You're not more likely to get covid than an unvaccinated person. Quite the opposite in fact.  Also, breakthrough infections, when you get Covid more than once, exhibit the same tendency, so this seems to be response to repeated infections, whether vaccinated or not.

 

It's also important to note that two shots and a booster are going to provide you with all the protection you need probably. Getting five or six boosters isn't going to add much protection. There is even no solid evidence that the bivalent booster is really helping all that much.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, jaywalker2 said:

There is even no solid evidence that the bivalent booster is really helping all that much.

 

I believe there's been some debate in the COVID vaccine expert researcher circles about whether and much much of an improvement the bivalent vaccines were in the real world vs. the original vaccines.

 

I noted this research report the other day.... It didn't compare the originals vs the bivalent vaccines. But rather, looked at the real world added protection levels that a third shot of a bivalent vaccine added beyond those with just the two original shots.

 

Bivalent boosters offer added protection for previously vaccinated people, study shows

October 27, 2023

 

"Bivalent (two-strain) boosters offer some restored protection against critical illness and hospital admission for people who had previously received only two doses of the original mRNA COVID-19 vaccines, according to a study yesterday in The Lancet Respiratory Medicine.

...

Among those who had received a Pfizer BA.4/5 bivalent booster, relative VE was an additional 50% (95% confidence interval, 23% to 68%) against critical illness, an additional 39% against hospital admission, an additional 35% against emergency department or urgent care visits, and an additional 28% against outpatient encounters.

 

Though protection against any infection waned from the bivalent booster from 0 to 3 months, then again from 4 to 7 months, the enhanced protection against critical illness, hospital admission, and emergency department or urgent care outcomes remained."

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/bivalent-boosters-offer-added-protection-previously-vaccinated-people-study-shows

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(23)00306-5/fulltext

 

"We aimed to investigate the effectiveness of the Pfizer-–BioNTech BNT162b2 BA.4/5 bivalent vaccine against both BA.4/5-related and XBB-related disease in adults aged 18 years or older.

...

The relative effectiveness of the BNT162b2 BA.4/5 bivalent booster for XBB-related infections compared with BA.4/5-related infections was 56% (95% CI 12–78) versus 40% (27–50) for hospital admission; 34% (21–45) versus 36% (30–41) against emergency department or urgent care visits; and 29% (19–38) versus 27% (20–33) for outpatient encounters.

...

By mid-April, 2023, individuals previously vaccinated only with wild-type vaccines had little protection against COVID-19—including hospital admission. A BNT162b2 BA.4/5 bivalent booster restored protection against a range of COVID-19 outcomes, including against XBB-related sublineages, with the most substantial protection observed against hospital admission and critical illness."

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[rattlesnake]

8 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Not sure, about 8 weeks ago I had to undergo emergency open surgery for an unexpected health issue and then had a stay in ICU for a bit. It left me with lung damage however it appears to be getting better. Being from the UK I am currently following their advice which is for another booster for at risk people only. If my lung continues to improve then I will stick with that advice for now. I am not in the age related need for boosters.

Wishing you a speedy recovery.

[jaywalker2]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I believe there's been some debate in the COVID vaccine expert researcher circles about whether and much much of an improvement the bivalent vaccines were in the real world vs. the original vaccines.

 

I noted this research report the other day.... It didn't compare the originals vs the bivalent vaccines. But rather, looked at the real world added protection levels that a third shot of a bivalent vaccine added beyond those with just the two original shots.

 

Bivalent boosters offer added protection for previously vaccinated people, study shows

October 27, 2023

 

"Bivalent (two-strain) boosters offer some restored protection against critical illness and hospital admission for people who had previously received only two doses of the original mRNA COVID-19 vaccines, according to a study yesterday in The Lancet Respiratory Medicine.

...

Among those who had received a Pfizer BA.4/5 bivalent booster, relative VE was an additional 50% (95% confidence interval, 23% to 68%) against critical illness, an additional 39% against hospital admission, an additional 35% against emergency department or urgent care visits, and an additional 28% against outpatient encounters.

 

Though protection against any infection waned from the bivalent booster from 0 to 3 months, then again from 4 to 7 months, the enhanced protection against critical illness, hospital admission, and emergency department or urgent care outcomes remained."

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/bivalent-boosters-offer-added-protection-previously-vaccinated-people-study-shows

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(23)00306-5/fulltext

 

"We aimed to investigate the effectiveness of the Pfizer-–BioNTech BNT162b2 BA.4/5 bivalent vaccine against both BA.4/5-related and XBB-related disease in adults aged 18 years or older.

...

The relative effectiveness of the BNT162b2 BA.4/5 bivalent booster for XBB-related infections compared with BA.4/5-related infections was 56% (95% CI 12–78) versus 40% (27–50) for hospital admission; 34% (21–45) versus 36% (30–41) against emergency department or urgent care visits; and 29% (19–38) versus 27% (20–33) for outpatient encounters.

...

By mid-April, 2023, individuals previously vaccinated only with wild-type vaccines had little protection against COVID-19—including hospital admission. A BNT162b2 BA.4/5 bivalent booster restored protection against a range of COVID-19 outcomes, including against XBB-related sublineages, with the most substantial protection observed against hospital admission and critical illness."

 

Yes, so if you've already had two shots and a booster then even if it was some time ago, you're probably sufficiently protected. The antibodies decrease but your t-cells will still remember how to fight the virus.

[owl sees all]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I believe there's been some debate in the COVID vaccine expert researcher circles about whether and much much of an improvement the bivalent vaccines were in the real world vs. the original vaccines.

 

I noted this research report the other day.... It didn't compare the originals vs the bivalent vaccines. But rather, looked at the real world added protection levels that a third shot of a bivalent vaccine added beyond those with just the two original shots.

 

Bivalent boosters offer added protection for previously vaccinated people, study shows

October 27, 2023

 

"Bivalent (two-strain) boosters offer some restored protection against critical illness and hospital admission for people who had previously received only two doses of the original mRNA COVID-19 vaccines, according to a study yesterday in The Lancet Respiratory Medicine.

...

Among those who had received a Pfizer BA.4/5 bivalent booster, relative VE was an additional 50% (95% confidence interval, 23% to 68%) against critical illness, an additional 39% against hospital admission, an additional 35% against emergency department or urgent care visits, and an additional 28% against outpatient encounters.

 

Though protection against any infection waned from the bivalent booster from 0 to 3 months, then again from 4 to 7 months, the enhanced protection against critical illness, hospital admission, and emergency department or urgent care outcomes remained."

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/bivalent-boosters-offer-added-protection-previously-vaccinated-people-study-shows

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(23)00306-5/fulltext

 

"We aimed to investigate the effectiveness of the Pfizer-–BioNTech BNT162b2 BA.4/5 bivalent vaccine against both BA.4/5-related and XBB-related disease in adults aged 18 years or older.

...

The relative effectiveness of the BNT162b2 BA.4/5 bivalent booster for XBB-related infections compared with BA.4/5-related infections was 56% (95% CI 12–78) versus 40% (27–50) for hospital admission; 34% (21–45) versus 36% (30–41) against emergency department or urgent care visits; and 29% (19–38) versus 27% (20–33) for outpatient encounters.

...

By mid-April, 2023, individuals previously vaccinated only with wild-type vaccines had little protection against COVID-19—including hospital admission. A BNT162b2 BA.4/5 bivalent booster restored protection against a range of COVID-19 outcomes, including against XBB-related sublineages, with the most substantial protection observed against hospital admission and critical illness."

 

 

I appreciate that you are getting your info from, what some think are decent publication/sources, but in my view the whole thing paints a completely false picture.

 

It has never been shown that a natural pathogen, (or a lab-made one either), can be transferred from one person to another. Plenty have tried; especially during the late 1920s and early 1930s. Nothing so far. And nature says it's not possible.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

42 minutes ago, jaywalker2 said:

Yes, so if you've already had two shots and a booster then even if it was some time ago, you're probably sufficiently protected. The antibodies decrease but your t-cells will still remember how to fight the virus.

 

 T-cells and antibody levels aside, as best as I can follow the science, real world studies have shown that the actual rates of protection from COVID do tend to gradually decrease somewhat over time.... But those levels of protection are restored with subsequent, updated vaccinations.

 

That's part of the reason countries around the world are recommending either that all of their populations (as with the U.S.), or in other countries just the more vulnerable populations, get updated COVID vaccinations this year... also because the newest monovalent versions are a closer match to the currently circulating COVID strains than the prior vax versions.

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re the U.S.:

Stay Up to Date with COVID-19 Vaccines

Updated Oct. 4, 2023

 

• CDC recommends the 2023–2024 updated COVID-19 vaccines: Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, or Novavax, to protect against serious illness from COVID-19.
   
• Everyone aged 5 years and older ‡ should get 1 dose of an updated COVID-19 vaccine to protect against serious illness from COVID-19.
   
• People who are moderately or severely immunocompromised may get additional doses of updated COVID-19 vaccine.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re the U.K.:

 

Covid autumn booster vaccine 2023: Everything you need to know

The following people are eligible for an autumn Covid booster:

• Residents in care homes for older adults
• All adults aged 65 years and over
• People aged 6 months to 64 years in a clinical risk group, as defined in tables 3 and 4 of the Covid-19 chapter of the UKHSA Green Book on Immunisation
• frontline health and social care workers.
• People aged 12 to 64 years who are household contacts of people with immunosuppression, as defined in the UKHSA Green Book
• People aged 16 to 64 years who are carers, as defined in the UKHSA Green Book, and staff working in care homes for older adults

https://healthmedia.blog.gov.uk/2023/08/08/covid-autumn-booster-vaccine-2023-everything-you-need-to-know/

 

 

 

[owl sees all]

10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

• Everyone aged 5 years and older ‡ should get 1 dose of an updated COVID-19 vaccine to protect against serious illness from COVID-19.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html

 

 

This is undefenceable to me. Simply criminal!

 

Poor kids!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, jaywalker2 said:

Yes, so if you've already had two shots and a booster then even if it was some time ago, you're probably sufficiently protected. The antibodies decrease but your t-cells will still remember how to fight the virus.

 

From the FDA on why the world agencies went with a newly updated vaccine version for this year:

 

"At an ICMRA COVID-19 Omicron variant workshop on May 8, 2023, FDA and other regulators met to discuss global regulatory alignment to adapt COVID-19 vaccines to emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants and to discuss the preferred strain composition for future vaccine updates. There was general agreement among the participants that while vaccines based on the original virus strain can still be protective against severe disease, protection wanes with time and is reduced against subsequent waves of variant viruses. Both real world evidence and immunogenicity data suggest that a vaccine composition that more closely matches circulating virus strains can significantly improve vaccine-induced immunogenicity and protection."

 

FDA Briefing Document
Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee Meeting

June 15, 2023

 

https://www.fda.gov/media/169378/download

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK