Change in the tax law does target expats living in Thailand and extends reporting obligations

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, hondoelsinore said:

But.... It's on YouTube.... 🤣

And also extremely unhelpful because now idiots will use what is said in the video as fact and they will be wrong. 

[hondoelsinore]

Just now, Mike Lister said:

And also extremely unhelpful because now idiots will use what is said in the video as fact and they will be wrong. 

Why would you be concerned? This guy and Chocolate Man didn't impress me from day one, but I am capable of critical thinking, which I see you don't need to be on YouTube. 

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Straight8 said:

 

but that will all change most likely from 01 Jan 2024, if this gets implemented

 

Immigration will do the RD's work?

 

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, hondoelsinore said:

Why would you be concerned? This guy and Chocolate Man didn't impress me from day one, but I am capable of critical thinking, which I see you don't need to be on YouTube. 

Why? Because I think it is clear to most people that this thread and others like it are trying to establish fact and the video works against that. Please do everyone a favor and at least vet the things you post rather than offer them up as evidence of whatever it is your reason was for posting it.

[rabas]

3 minutes ago, hondoelsinore said:

Why would you be concerned? This guy and Chocolate Man didn't impress me from day one, but I am capable of critical thinking, which I see you don't need to be on YouTube. 

 

First your critical thinking spreads misinformation. 

Now the same critical thinking says that's OK because ... your critical thinking.

 

I think your 'critical' is more like the one they use in hospitals? 

[NanLaew]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Immigration will do the RD's work?

 

 

Access to Thailand's immigration database will enable the RD to do its job. Fundamentally the same methodology used by the more clever and sophisticated western nations to keep tabs on their tax delinquents.

[hondoelsinore]

1 minute ago, rabas said:

 

First your critical thinking spreads misinformation. 

Now the same critical thinking says that's OK because ... your critical thinking.

 

I think your 'critical' is more like the one they use in hospitals? 

I'm not any different than anyone else who has shared YouTube BS, but doesn't change the fact that you make absolutely no sense. Must be an old one foot in the grave oxygen thief. 

[QuantumQuandry]

12 hours ago, Gknrd said:

Now their thinking is, these westerners are idiots and will pay anything for someone to sleep with them here. 

 

Fixed.

[BE88]

6 hours ago, stat said:

I think 30% of the "wealthy" expats will leave but as they are probably only 10% of all expats just 3% overall. Of course just my wild guess.

 

Yes the rich will not worry about paying taxes in Thailand because they can easily move elsewhere but instead those who are counting their money to make ends month here in Thailand will be more interested and will be the most affected by this new tax.

 

So your assessment needs to be reviewed from this aspect too.

 

[jerrymahoney]

13 minutes ago, QuantumQuandry said:

12 hours ago, Gknrd said:

Now their thinking is, these westerners are idiots and will pay anything for someone to sleep with them here. 

 

Fixed.

Yes and because I'm just a cheapo:

 

Nov. 8, 2023 The Justice Department announced charges on Wednesday against three people accused of running a “high-end brothel network” in the Washington and Boston suburbs and unveiled an investigation into potentially hundreds of high-profile clients who had paid for sexual services.

 

The prostitution scheme was run through at least two websites that advertised appointments with Asian women ... They are accused of using “coercive tactics” to draw the women into providing sexual services, for which clients were charged about $350 to $600 per hour.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/08/us/politics/justice-department-brothel.html

Edited November 11, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[The Cyclist]

13 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

You keep repeating...And are just as boring as a flat stage of the tour de France.

 

I asked you 3 days ago what facts that you know that have escaped other people ?
 

The sound of silence from you was deafening.

 

Yet you manage to come up with another comment that adds nothing to peoples understanding of the facts , certainly the facts that you appear to be aware of, but seem unwilling to share them.

 

You carry on being a Doomer & Gloomer if that is what floats your boat.

[hondoelsinore]

3 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Yes and because I'm just a cheapo:

 

Nov. 8, 2023 The Justice Department announced charges on Wednesday against three people accused of running a “high-end brothel network” in the Washington and Boston suburbs and unveiled an investigation into potentially hundreds of high-profile clients who had paid for sexual services.

 

The prostitution scheme was run through at least two websites that advertised appointments with Asian women ... They are accused of using “coercive tactics” to draw the women into providing sexual services, for which clients were charged about $350 to $600 per hour.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/08/us/politics/justice-department-brothel.html

Are you that bored you'd actually share this crap? Or just trying to remain relevant to a bunch of strangers on a public forum? Jeez people.

[The Cyclist]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Some of you guys have whipped yourself into such a frenzy and confirmed in your minds that only the very worst will happen, despite there being no new facts and despite constant reminders that the RD is developing new processes. Are you paranoid, are you glass half empty people? It's certain you're not logical or rational, however will you get through the rest of your lives baffles me.

 

How some of them can crawl out of their safe spaces and let go of their comfort blankets long enough to type unadulterated nonsense is beyond me.

[jerrymahoney]

17 minutes ago, hondoelsinore said:

Are you that bored you'd actually share this crap? Or just trying to remain relevant to a bunch of strangers on a public forum? Jeez people.

well it wasn't on YouTube so I had to quote the NY Times. But others in this topic have already repeatedly said those who stay in Thailand only do so for cheap sex.

[hondoelsinore]

4 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

well it wasn't on YouTube so I had to quote the NY Times. But others in this topic have already repeatedly said those who stay in Thailand only do so for cheap sex.

But it's a story in the Washington Boston suburbs? Two absolutely horrid places... Methinks you'd do better with YT, NYT's is absolutely worthless. oh well...

[The Cyclist]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

 

Access to Thailand's immigration database will enable the RD to do its job. Fundamentally the same methodology used by the more clever and sophisticated western nations to keep tabs on their tax delinquents.

 

Do you include the UK in ' Sophisticated Western Nations ' ?

 

A Nation that does not have a clue who is actually in the Nation and has a massive Black Economy.

 

Sure, if you are PAYE in the Uk, you probably pay the appropriate taxes, for anyone else it is a different story.

 

Hardly a Nation to be held as a model of anything.

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

stopped watching at 8 minutes after so many mistakes. He also suggested that money earned decades ago would get counted, but the rules clearly say you must be a tax resident when the money is earned.

 

The speaker, Thomas Carden, has many mistakes in his repertoire. Six years ago on this forum, we discussed his too-good-to-be-true product that would allow US taxpayers who lived in Thailand for over 180 days to avoid all taxation (Thai and US) on their IRA distributions. His rationale: The "saving clause" in the US-Thai DTA does not apply to private pensions, including IRA's. This would make Thailand the only country in the world, then, where you could move to and cash out your IRAs tax free, to include exception from US taxes. Yeah, right.

 

Anyway, the below thread ref is long and probably of interest primarily to US types, especially those now living over 180 days in Thailand and are paying taxes on their US IRA distributions. But, it does give perspective on Carden's dubious standards.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1008555-tax-specialist-in-chiang-mai/page/3/

 

Pay particular attention to the Swiss-US DTA and its IRA treatment -- and how it's been vetted by the Senior Technical Reviewer in the Office of Chief Counsel, IRS. No such vetting has been done with the US-Thai DTA in regards to IRAs, and those tax returns filed by Carden, exempting IRAs from taxation, if audited, have only had low level auditors completely overwhelmed with treaty language, tax code language, and Carden's snake oil interpretation of the saving clause. So, yeah, if you hire Carden, you can save a bundle on your taxes, including filing amended tax returns for the previous three years. And probably with little risk.

 

I just don't like the unethical.

 

 

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

 

Access to Thailand's immigration database will enable the RD to do its job. Fundamentally the same methodology used by the more clever and sophisticated western nations to keep tabs on their tax delinquents.

 

Do they have such access? I recently had some dealings with the amphur police and one of the RTP's SB-like branches. Both kept pestering for details immigration had for years. It was like they had the forms, but not the information, and no clear idea what some of the information meant. It was news to the amphur police that foreigners had to do the 90-days reports thing. A couple of days ago they managed to bring immigration reps. along so things went smoothly. If working relations between immigration and RD are the same - guess 'chaos' is the word to look for.

[hondoelsinore]

3 minutes ago, JimGant said:

 

The speaker, Thomas Carden, has many mistakes in his repertoire. Six years ago on this forum, we discussed his too-good-to-be-true product that would allow US taxpayers who lived in Thailand for over 180 days to avoid all taxation (Thai and US) on their IRA distributions. His rationale: The "saving clause" in the US-Thai DTA does not apply to private pensions, including IRA's. This would make Thailand the only country in the world, then, where you could move to and cash out your IRAs tax free, to include exception from US taxes. Yeah, right.

 

Anyway, the below thread ref is long and probably of interest primarily to US types, especially those now living over 180 days in Thailand and are paying taxes on their US IRA distributions. But, it does give perspective on Carden's dubious standards.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1008555-tax-specialist-in-chiang-mai/page/3/

 

Pay particular attention to the Swiss-US DTA and its IRA treatment -- and how it's been vetted by the Senior Technical Reviewer in the Office of Chief Counsel, IRS. No such vetting has been done with the US-Thai DTA in regards to IRAs, and those tax returns filed by Carden, exempting IRAs from taxation, if audited, have only had low level auditors completely overwhelmed with treaty language, tax code language, and Carden's snake oil interpretation of the saving clause. So, yeah, if you hire Carden, you can save a bundle on your taxes, including filing amended tax returns for the previous three years. And probably with little risk.

 

I just don't like the unethical.

 

 

 

Well that's one snake out of the den. Your Welcome.

[freeworld]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

Immigration will do the RD's work?

 

No, unless foreigners start volunteering tax information then it may just become a requirement by immigration.

Edited November 11, 2023 by freeworld

[Morch]

16 minutes ago, freeworld said:

No, unless foreigners start volunteering tax information then it may just become a requirement by immigration.

 

Immigration sometimes got trouble figuring their own requirements regarding money in the bank (or income).

Can't see them able to handle more complex matters.

[metisdead]

A post contravening our Community Standards has been removed.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

16 hours ago, stat said:

 

BTW US citizen can claim exemption for their US tax on the part they already paid in the other country. TroubleandGrumpy is correct here.

 

There is however Erithrea that taxes on nationality even if you live somewere else. Germany has also some very special clauses that force you to pay up either when you leave Germany or 5 to 10 years after you have left Germany.

 

https://www.taxesforexpats.com/expat-tax-advice/Citizenship-Based-Taxation-International-Comparison.html

Thanks for that - you are right.  I have checked and Eritrea has indeed imposed what some are calling an 'illegal tax' to try and prop up a dictatorship.

Eritrea’s ‘diaspora tax’ is funding violence and oppression | Opinions | Al Jazeera

Likewise, the dictators at Myamar have also done something similar recently to try and prop up their illegal regime.

 

I discount both of those countries as 'genuine' members of the international tax treaties that underpin the DTAs under which USA taxes its citizens no matter where they live in the world.  But technically you are right - they are both technically trying to do what USA does. 

 

[ikke1959]

Maybe the RD should start with the Thai people to let them fill in a tax form ad check if the information is correct. 70% of the Thai people don't pay tax while they have a lot of money to spend it seems, although many don't have that wealth. Foreign taxes are much complicated than they think and it is the question if the RD is capable of handling all that in formation as it will be in the native language or maybe English, but English is not the strongest language here.. and not to speak about the complex information in the language of the country.  Anyway I think it will be more affect Thai citizens than expats.We all know that digital programs are not working well too.. many examples aswe have seen fr the Covid , 90 days reporting immigration services.. If you enter Thailand they local immigration have no clue ..and still need a picture by extending your visa and all kind of information that was given already at the airport a week ago.. So don't worry too much now 

[Robin]

When will the 180days  'tax resident' qualification start?  I will have been in Thailand 200 days on 1/1/ 24, so will I become a tax resident immediately, or will the 180 days start from 1/1/24 ?

This could led to a mass exodus on 1 Jan.

[Misty]

3 hours ago, hondoelsinore said:

 

 

Viewers please note:  AMCHAM Thailand has an excellent tax committee.  Years ago this guy gave a couple of presentations for AMCHAM.  Not only is he no longer an AMCHAM member, but he is also not asked to speak there.

[Mike Lister]

9 minutes ago, Robin said:

When will the 180days  'tax resident' qualification start?  I will have been in Thailand 200 days on 1/1/ 24, so will I become a tax resident immediately, or will the 180 days start from 1/1/24 ?

This could led to a mass exodus on 1 Jan.

The tax year starts 1 January and ends 31 December, your 180 days must be between those dates, every year. The clock starts anew each year.

[Mike Lister]

37 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

Maybe the RD should start with the Thai people to let them fill in a tax form ad check if the information is correct. 70% of the Thai people don't pay tax while they have a lot of money to spend it seems, although many don't have that wealth. Foreign taxes are much complicated than they think and it is the question if the RD is capable of handling all that in formation as it will be in the native language or maybe English, but English is not the strongest language here.. and not to speak about the complex information in the language of the country.  Anyway I think it will be more affect Thai citizens than expats.We all know that digital programs are not working well too.. many examples aswe have seen fr the Covid , 90 days reporting immigration services.. If you enter Thailand they local immigration have no clue ..and still need a picture by extending your visa and all kind of information that was given already at the airport a week ago.. So don't worry too much now 

Once again, the Thai workforce is about 32 million people, of that number, about 6% pay tax via a PAYE equivalent. The remainder OF THE WORKFORCE may or may  file a tax return and may or may not pay tax. Most of the remainder are either self employed or work as a limited company. The tax deductions and allowances for the self employed are very very generous, a person can turnover 1 million in sales and pay no tax, I know, my wife does.

[jerrymahoney]

15 minutes ago, Misty said:

 

Viewers please note:  AMCHAM Thailand has an excellent tax committee.  Years ago this guy gave a couple of presentations for AMCHAM.  Not only is he no longer an AMCHAM member, but he is also not asked to speak there.

Thanks. I just went via that YouTube vid and typed into YT search "2024 Thailand taxes" and there is a whole sub-industry in these 'advices'.

Edited November 11, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[Morch]

I think what some (me, for sure) think of is how to go about it - do you ask immigration? Likely they have no idea, or will cause some confusion and mess with visa issues. Ask the RD? Again no assurance there will be a clear answer, and bang you're in their sights. Hire an accountant? They probably don't know much more now, and you just end up paying for nothing (plus possibly the second issue on top). Looking up answers on the net - yeah...well.

 

If one has been doing this (RD reports etc.) for some time now, that's a different situation. For those of us who haven't (for whatever reason), and it's first time dealing with this here - confusing and worrisome.

 

Since there's not a whole lot of clarity on the process, details and how it will be enforced etc. - how much you get worked up over it is a choice.