The Met Police WON'T ban Poppy Day pro-Palestine rally

[nauseus]

36 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Can't prove it, and resort to inane personal comments.

 

You already proved it.

[Nick Carter icp]

37 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It certainly is when during that day probably dozens of Gazan's were blown to bits. When the israelis stop blowing children to bits the protests will stop.

 

    There were protests before the war began .

The protests will stop when Israel no longer exists as a Country 

[nauseus]

28 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It certainly is when during that day probably dozens of Gazan's were blown to bits. When the israelis stop blowing children to bits the protests will stop.

 

You miss my point, which was to keep one weekend free in London for the UK to remember their fallen, in silence and without distraction. I think that the PSC protests would collectively gain more support if that had happened. 

 

You immediately put the onus on to the Israelis to stop, while ignoring the Hamas barbarism that triggered this particular event.

 

The death and destruction, first in Israel, now in Gaza, is terrible but what your side do not acknowledge is that now, Hamas are purposely and exponentially multiplying the number of casualties in Gaza by hiding behind (and under) the civilian population. Hamas must have expected a strong response to 7 Oct by the Israelis, who waited and warned for 3 weeks before taking serious action - yes I know it was also to give the Israelis time to organize - but it was plenty of time for any innocents to be moved to the safest places possible.    

 

Maybe if Hamas were to return their hostages then that might lead to a meaningful ceasefire? 

[placnx]

On 11/8/2023 at 1:19 PM, JonnyF said:

An excellent look at the song "from the river to the sea" that will being chanted on London streets during this 'rally'.

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/11/08/from-the-river-to-the-sea-is-a-call-for-genocide/

 

But to be honest, when they can (and have/will) openly call for Jihad and genocide and face no repurcussions from the biased Met Police, there is no need for coded langauge.

 

It's interesting that for the left, an LGBT meme is hate speech yet calls for Jihad and the elimination of the state of Israel is a peaceful protest, even when they are fighting the police at the same time. They are fooling nobody. The world's oldest hatred is on the rise and those supporting it should be ashamed. 

 

The 'River to the Sea' process that is really going on is the active realization of ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in the West Bank and now Gaza. This is a long-standing project of the ultra Orthodox who now keep Netanyahu in power.

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, placnx said:

The 'River to the Sea' process that is really going on is the active realization of ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in the West Bank and now Gaza. This is a long-standing project of the ultra Orthodox who now keep Netanyahu in power.

 

A long-standing project?

 

Please demonstrate,

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 11/12/2023 at 9:50 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

I trust the police will receive public help identifying these individuals, investigate, arrest and prosecute, let the courts deal with them.

The police tell us they estimate 300,000 attendees, 3 in 300,000 is three too many, they need dealing with.

 

Do you have any comments on the far more numerous arrests for violence of the extreme rightwing counter protestors?

 

 

 

easier to control a  few  hundred  instead of a few hundred thousand would be my  guess.

[NextG]

On 11/13/2023 at 3:52 PM, Morch said:

 

I did not say that the PLO was Hamas.

I pointed out that they were not benign to Israel and Israelis, hence their usage of the slogan wasn't as well.

 

Israel exists between the river and the sea. If someone uses the slogan, he basically denounces Israel's existence.

Hence, chanting 'river-to-the-sea' is more than 'supporting Palestinians', as it implies the destruction, erasure or what have you of Israel.

 

I didn't claim Israel was a 'victim', that's something you just injected to the conversation.

 

 

 

On 11/13/2023 at 4:15 PM, Morch said:

 

Indeed. It was even part of their old party anthem. But be that as it may, it's pretty much out of use for years now.

And regardless, this wasn't a protest by Likud members, so not seeing the point.

I'll make it clear (you can check my posting history) that I'm not a fan of Netanyahu, his party or their policies.

Old party anthem?

 

”Not only is Mr Netanyahu against independence for the Palestinians. His survival as prime minister depends on support from Jewish extremists who believe the entire territory between the river Jordan and the Mediterranean was given to the Jewish people by God and should all be inside Israel's borders.”

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67404110

 

 

 

[Morch]

35 minutes ago, NextG said:

 

Old party anthem?

 

”Not only is Mr Netanyahu against independence for the Palestinians. His survival as prime minister depends on support from Jewish extremists who believe the entire territory between the river Jordan and the Mediterranean was given to the Jewish people by God and should all be inside Israel's borders.”

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67404110

 

 

 

 

Yes, and?

 

The phrase itself is pretty much out of use in Israeli politics, even it's 'successor' 'the whole land of Israel' is outdated. And indeed, the phrase was used in the old Likud anthem (even worse, it actually referenced both sides of the Jordan - a relic of pre-independence right-wing fantasies) - I don't know if they still have a go at it at party conventions, doubt most delegates know the words, nowadays.

 

As for current politics - Netanyahu (and by extension, the Likud party, which is nothing but a collection of sycophants) are interested in one thing, and one thing only - Netanyhu's political survival (and/or if that fails, securing loyalists political futures). There's very little real ideology there. What you refer to comes mostly from right-wing religious coalition partners - so not the same party. While they do have a lot of influence with Netanyahu, it's not a 100% control thing - he will no qualms selling them down the river too if that what it takes to remain in power.

[NextG]

9 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

A long-standing project?

 

Please demonstrate,

How would you like them to ‘demonstrate’ it?

After from digging out old documents, just look at the history. A potted history. They lived together in relative peace, until Jews from abroad began buying up the land, displacing the Palestinians. More and more. The British tried to keep the peace, but Jewish terrorists forced them out. This is the history of the founding of modern Israel. Colonising and taking by force. At that time they devised a plan to just leave the Palestinians surrounded in little pockets of land. That is the plan and that is what is being pushed for. 
The wars are just red herrings. They were and are inevitable. The Palestinians were forced out and humiliated. 
The mistake is gloating over winning the wars and taking more land…. and worse, settling in it. Further humiliation. But once you humiliate someone to the point that they don’t care if they live or die, don’t be surprised when they choose to die and take you with them. That won’t ever stop until they succeed. David vs Goliath, but not the way you tell the story. 
So that is why people support the Palestinians. Because they were wronged. The Jews justified their actions by saying the God gave them the land. That they are the chosen people and that everyone else is 💩 

That’s going to go back and bite them on the arse. It’s inevitable. So no one is surprised by HAMAS’s actions. Next time it will be worse. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by NextG

[NextG]

14 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Yes, and?

 

The phrase itself is pretty much out of use in Israeli politics, even it's 'successor' 'the whole land of Israel' is outdated. And indeed, the phrase was used in the old Likud anthem (even worse, it actually referenced both sides of the Jordan - a relic of pre-independence right-wing fantasies) - I don't know if they still have a go at it at party conventions, doubt most delegates know the words, nowadays.

 

As for current politics - Netanyahu (and by extension, the Likud party, which is nothing but a collection of sycophants) are interested in one thing, and one thing only - Netanyhu's political survival (and/or if that fails, securing loyalists political futures). There's very little real ideology there. What you refer to comes mostly from right-wing religious coalition partners - so not the same party. While they do have a lot of influence with Netanyahu, it's not a 100% control thing - he will no qualms selling them down the river too if that what it takes to remain in power.

The phrase is just a phrase. That people believe in it as a goal is the salient point. Obviously people disagree in which side should have it. 
But don’t be surprised that not everyone is sympathetic with the aggressors painting themselves as the victims of the Palestinians. 

[nauseus]

37 minutes ago, NextG said:

How would you like them to ‘demonstrate’ it?

After from digging out old documents, just look at the history. A potted history. They lived together in relative peace, until Jews from abroad began buying up the land, displacing the Palestinians. More and more. The British tried to keep the peace, but Jewish terrorists forced them out. This is the history of the founding of modern Israel. Colonising and taking by force. At that time they devised a plan to just leave the Palestinians surrounded in little pockets of land. That is the plan and that is what is being pushed for. 
The wars are just red herrings. They were and are inevitable. The Palestinians were forced out and humiliated. 
The mistake is gloating over winning the wars and taking more land…. and worse, settling in it. Further humiliation. But once you humiliate someone to the point that they don’t care if they live or die, don’t be surprised when they choose to die and take you with them. That won’t ever stop until they succeed. David vs Goliath, but not the way you tell the story. 
So that is why people support the Palestinians. Because they were wronged. The Jews justified their actions by saying the God gave them the land. That they are the chosen people and that everyone else is 💩 

That’s going to go back and bite them on the arse. It’s inevitable. So no one is surprised by HAMAS’s actions. Next time it will be worse. 

 

That was a rant but not a demonstration.

[Morch]

39 minutes ago, NextG said:

The phrase is just a phrase. That people believe in it as a goal is the salient point. Obviously people disagree in which side should have it. 
But don’t be surprised that not everyone is sympathetic with the aggressors painting themselves as the victims of the Palestinians. 

 

Spin it whichever way you like - the bottom line is that the slogan is nowadays used almost exclusively by one side, and it does not really carry a message of peace. It's about one side winning over the other. Your last line have little to do with previous posts or what I wrote.

[Morch]

46 minutes ago, NextG said:

How would you like them to ‘demonstrate’ it?

After from digging out old documents, just look at the history. A potted history. They lived together in relative peace, until Jews from abroad began buying up the land, displacing the Palestinians. More and more. The British tried to keep the peace, but Jewish terrorists forced them out. This is the history of the founding of modern Israel. Colonising and taking by force. At that time they devised a plan to just leave the Palestinians surrounded in little pockets of land. That is the plan and that is what is being pushed for. 
The wars are just red herrings. They were and are inevitable. The Palestinians were forced out and humiliated. 
The mistake is gloating over winning the wars and taking more land…. and worse, settling in it. Further humiliation. But once you humiliate someone to the point that they don’t care if they live or die, don’t be surprised when they choose to die and take you with them. That won’t ever stop until they succeed. David vs Goliath, but not the way you tell the story. 
So that is why people support the Palestinians. Because they were wronged. The Jews justified their actions by saying the God gave them the land. That they are the chosen people and that everyone else is 💩 

That’s going to go back and bite them on the arse. It’s inevitable. So no one is surprised by HAMAS’s actions. Next time it will be worse. 

 

That's a nice rant.

 

Unfortunately, it leaves out all them parts having to do with Palestinian actions, wrong choices taken, bad decisions made, and continued failure to do much that is constructive to improve their lot. It also absolves the Palestinian side, wholesale - of any accountability or responsibility for anything. That is not a serious take on history, but the reciting of a contrived narrative.

[NextG]

18 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Spin it whichever way you like - the bottom line is that the slogan is nowadays used almost exclusively by one side, and it does not really carry a message of peace. It's about one side winning over the other. Your last line have little to do with previous posts or what I wrote.

Or about one side righting an injustice, dependent on your perspective. 

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, NextG said:

Or about one side righting an injustice, dependent on your perspective. 

 

Righting an injustice as in eradicating the other side?

[NextG]

24 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

That's a nice rant.

 

Unfortunately, it leaves out all them parts having to do with Palestinian actions, wrong choices taken, bad decisions made, and continued failure to do much that is constructive to improve their lot. It also absolves the Palestinian side, wholesale - of any accountability or responsibility for anything. That is not a serious take on history, but the reciting of a contrived narrative.

Pathetic. You weren’t original enough other than to take the word ‘rant’ out of ‘nausea’s mouth. 
Bad choices taken? I guess you are referring to events far beyond the root of the issue and instead referring to them not agreeing to the initial humiliation. 
The Jews/Zionists created the problem in the first instance and then want others to accede to their every demand. It will end in tears. Generation upon generation will strike back. Of course they would prefer the Palestinians to stay quiet. 
 

Edited November 14, 2023 by NextG

[NextG]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Righting an injustice as in eradicating the other side?

Fighting back. Only one side is talking about eradication and that is the Israelis. Show me where the Palestinians have talked about eradication?

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, NextG said:

Fighting back. Only one side is talking about eradication and that is the Israelis. Show me where the Palestinians have talked about eradication?

 

The Hamas Charter clearly calls for it.

The 'river-to-the-sea' chant implies the same thing.

[NextG]

Just now, Morch said:

 

The Hamas Charter clearly calls for it.

The 'river-to-the-sea' chant implies the same thing.

Disingenuous. You try insist that Likud etc has moved away from ‘the river to the sea’ but ignore that HAMAS has long distanced themselves from the charter to which you refer. 
 

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, NextG said:

Pathetic. You weren’t original enough other than to take the word ‘rant’ out of ‘nausea’s mouth. 
Bad choices taken? I guess you are referring to events far beyond the root of the issue and instead referring to them not agreeing to the initial humiliation. 
The Jews/Zionists created the problem in the first instance and then want others to accede to their every demand. It will end in tears. Generation upon generation will strike back. Of course they would prefer the Palestinians to stay quiet. 
 

 

I posted before reading his comment, and didn't feel the need to edit. If that's what makes your day, enjoy.

 

Bad choices are bad choices - not accepting the partition plan was one of them, but not the only one. The same goes for adopting the rejectionist position and focusing on armed struggle instead. Other ways in which this can be applied is the failure to come up with the economic, military, political and social structures leading to the formation of a state. One can also consider diplomatic choice of allies, sponsors and general interaction with them and the global community. I don't think you can seriously pin all these on Israel.

 

I think you are using a wide-brush when you comment about Zionists. Israeli leaders who were for peace were all Zionists as well. If you refer to the right wing religious elements, yes - they are not much for compromise, but they also do not represent all Zionists, Israelis or Jews. I don't know what exactly you meant by 'accede to their every demand' meant or referred to.

 

So far, it's generation after generation of Palestinians which gets struck down. Again, and again. Maybe a different approach would work out better for them.

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, NextG said:

Disingenuous. You try insist that Likud etc has moved away from ‘the river to the sea’ but ignore that HAMAS has long distanced themselves from the charter to which you refer. 
 

 

Not so.

 

The Hamas 'new' charter is essentially the same, politically speaking. It still does not recognize Israel's right to exist, and still retains the goal of replacing it with a Palestinian state. Also, as often happens in Palestinian politics, the old charter was not actually discarded. The PA did the same with elements of the Palestinian Covenant it was supposed to amend. This allows for different messages broadcast abroad and domestically. The Hamas new charter became a political necessity, as the Muslim Brotherhood (of which the Hamas was considered an offshoot) became pariah with several sponsor countries. 

 

The Likud usage of the slogan did become obsolete, more or less. Ideologically, they did not so much move away (there are still hardcore elements, and obviously the rhetoric), as became more of a one man show. So while there's sometimes a lot of talk, in effect the party does what Netanyahu's political survival requires. In this sense, more pragmatic (for better or worse) than earlier days.

[NextG]

4 hours ago, Morch said:

 

I posted before reading his comment, and didn't feel the need to edit. If that's what makes your day, enjoy.

 

Bad choices are bad choices - not accepting the partition plan was one of them, but not the only one. The same goes for adopting the rejectionist position and focusing on armed struggle instead. Other ways in which this can be applied is the failure to come up with the economic, military, political and social structures leading to the formation of a state. One can also consider diplomatic choice of allies, sponsors and general interaction with them and the global community. I don't think you can seriously pin all these on Israel.

 

I think you are using a wide-brush when you comment about Zionists. Israeli leaders who were for peace were all Zionists as well. If you refer to the right wing religious elements, yes - they are not much for compromise, but they also do not represent all Zionists, Israelis or Jews. I don't know what exactly you meant by 'accede to their every demand' meant or referred to.

 

So far, it's generation after generation of Palestinians which gets struck down. Again, and again. Maybe a different approach would work out better for them.

Their choice as to whether they live as mice or men:

 

”The proposed plan was considered to have been pro-Zionist by its detractors, with 56%^[6] of the land allocated to the Jewish state despite the Palestinian Arab population numbering twice the Jewish population.^[7] The plan was celebrated by most Jews in Palestine.^[8] The partition plan was reluctantly^[9]accepted by the Jewish Agency for Palestine with misgivings.^[10] Historians say that acceptance of the plan was a tactical step and that some Zionist leaders viewed the plan as a stepping stone to future territorial expansion over the whole of Palestine.^[11][12][5] The Arab Higher Committee, the Arab League and other Arab leaders and governments rejected it on the basis that in addition to the Arabs forming a two-thirds majority, they owned a majority of the lands..”

 

Easy for you to sit in your armchair and support a terrorist land grab. 
Perhaps you also support Putin’s expansionist ideas….

[NextG]

4 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Not so.

 

The Hamas 'new' charter is essentially the same, politically speaking. It still does not recognize Israel's right to exist, and still retains the goal of replacing it with a Palestinian state. Also, as often happens in Palestinian politics, the old charter was not actually discarded. The PA did the same with elements of the Palestinian Covenant it was supposed to amend. This allows for different messages broadcast abroad and domestically. The Hamas new charter became a political necessity, as the Muslim Brotherhood (of which the Hamas was considered an offshoot) became pariah with several sponsor countries. 

 

The Likud usage of the slogan did become obsolete, more or less. Ideologically, they did not so much move away (there are still hardcore elements, and obviously the rhetoric), as became more of a one man show. So while there's sometimes a lot of talk, in effect the party does what Netanyahu's political survival requires. In this sense, more pragmatic (for better or worse) than earlier days.

You are attempting to divert away from the point of him having to pander to the right wing, due to them being in his coalition. Smoke and mirrors trying to deflect by suggesting that it isn’t his party slogan. That why the Israelis settlements continue to grow. 

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, nauseus said:

The death and destruction, first in Israel, now in Gaza, is terrible but what your side do not acknowledge is that now, Hamas are purposely and exponentially multiplying the number of casualties in Gaza by hiding behind (and under) the civilian population. Hamas must have expected a strong response to 7 Oct by the Israelis, who waited and warned for 3 weeks before taking serious action - yes I know it was also to give the Israelis time to organize - but it was plenty of time for any innocents to be moved to the safest places possible.    

That's straight out of the israeli playbook. Not everyone is fooled by it though.

 

but it was plenty of time for any innocents to be moved to the safest places possible.    

Try and pay attention to the reality of what's happening- there are NO safe places in Gaza.

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, NextG said:

Their choice as to whether they live as mice or men:

 

”The proposed plan was considered to have been pro-Zionist by its detractors, with 56%^[6] of the land allocated to the Jewish state despite the Palestinian Arab population numbering twice the Jewish population.^[7] The plan was celebrated by most Jews in Palestine.^[8] The partition plan was reluctantly^[9]accepted by the Jewish Agency for Palestine with misgivings.^[10] Historians say that acceptance of the plan was a tactical step and that some Zionist leaders viewed the plan as a stepping stone to future territorial expansion over the whole of Palestine.^[11][12][5] The Arab Higher Committee, the Arab League and other Arab leaders and governments rejected it on the basis that in addition to the Arabs forming a two-thirds majority, they owned a majority of the lands..”

 

Easy for you to sit in your armchair and support a terrorist land grab. 
Perhaps you also support Putin’s expansionist ideas….

 

  Surely you could put a bit more effort into your posts , rather than just lazily posting paragraphs from Wiki ?

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, nauseus said:

Maybe if Hamas were to return their hostages then that might lead to a meaningful ceasefire? 

Netanyahu has said many times he won't agree to a ceasefire. I doubt he even wanted a pause to allow civilians to flee south, except Biden wanted it.

 

Hamas knows very well that if they didn't have hostages netanyahu would have gone full monster on them. I can see them handing over non israelis in exchange for something, but IMO the military hostages are going to get blown up along with the Gazans. Apparently already been one female soldier got blown up by israeli bombs.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, NextG said:

How would you like them to ‘demonstrate’ it?

After from digging out old documents, just look at the history. A potted history. They lived together in relative peace, until Jews from abroad began buying up the land, displacing the Palestinians. More and more. The British tried to keep the peace, but Jewish terrorists forced them out. This is the history of the founding of modern Israel. Colonising and taking by force. At that time they devised a plan to just leave the Palestinians surrounded in little pockets of land. That is the plan and that is what is being pushed for. 
The wars are just red herrings. They were and are inevitable. The Palestinians were forced out and humiliated. 
The mistake is gloating over winning the wars and taking more land…. and worse, settling in it. Further humiliation. But once you humiliate someone to the point that they don’t care if they live or die, don’t be surprised when they choose to die and take you with them. That won’t ever stop until they succeed. David vs Goliath, but not the way you tell the story. 
So that is why people support the Palestinians. Because they were wronged. The Jews justified their actions by saying the God gave them the land. That they are the chosen people and that everyone else is 💩 

That’s going to go back and bite them on the arse. It’s inevitable. So no one is surprised by HAMAS’s actions. Next time it will be worse. 

I agree with you. Seems like they already had the plans made, but were waiting for an excuse, which Hamas gave them 5 weeks ago.

 

Perhaps they didn't anticipate the reaction of the people of the world, as they seemed to have the leaders already in their pocket. Now, the revulsion of the masses is forcing some leaders to walk back from their lapdog performances at the start.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's straight out of the israeli playbook. Not everyone is fooled by it though.

 

but it was plenty of time for any innocents to be moved to the safest places possible.    

Try and pay attention to the reality of what's happening- there are NO safe places in Gaza.

 

No it's not and I said safest places possible. Stop being a tit.

[RayC]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

No it's not and I said safest places possible. Stop being a tit.

 

Careful. He'll have you on 'Ignore' before you know it.

 

Mind you, all the best people are part of that club😉

[Wobblybob]

Just now, RayC said:

 

Careful. He'll have you on 'Ignore' before you know it.

 

Mind you, all the best people are part of that club😉

Well I am, so you're probably correct.😭