CAn Foreigner get Tax number and do first ever return online , if not how please?

[The Cyclist]

3 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

 

You do know that there are gullible people reading this forum who will actually believe that. 

 

Can you narrow it down a bit ? Believe what ?

[VocalNeal]

6 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Can you narrow it down a bit ? Believe what ?

 

That all foreign transfers into Thailand will be subject to levies after 1st Jan 2024.

[The Cyclist]

4 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

 

That all foreign transfers into Thailand will be subject to levies after 1st Jan 2024.

 

I never said they would be, I specifically said

 

24 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

The sensible thing to do is only remit money to Thailand after  the 01 Jan 2024 which is covered by a DTA or  you can easily prove that it has been taxed in the UK

 

Because

 

24 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Remitting grey area  money after 01 Jan 2024 is only asking to be potentially caught up in a whole world of pain with the Thai taxman.

 

Why would anyone want to risk that ?

 

Prevention being better than trying to cure, is for winners.

[jayboy]

16 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

 

Now I am not trying to be a 'drama queen' but all you have to do is check the internet websites of any tax accountant/lawyer in Thailand - they are all publishing details of what this change means

 

Actually the sites I have looked at (all top tier accountants with tax practices) are mostly absolutely clear that, having summarized the initial announcement on 2024 changes, the implementation details are not known and that there are many unanswered questions.

 

I have also seen at the scummier end of the scale many of the usual bottom feeders offering advice/webinars etc.Ignore them:they know no more than you.Wait until the details are known - I don't see there's a rush.

[The Cyclist]

3 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Actually the sites I have looked at (all top tier accountants with tax practices) are mostly absolutely clear that, having summarized the initial announcement on 2024 changes, the implementation details are not known and that there are many unanswered questions.

 

The poster that you quote, has apparently had emails from 2 tax experts confirming his doom & gloom.

 

Sadly, said poster refrained from publishing these emails when asked to do so.

[Sheryl]

54 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

 

That all foreign transfers into Thailand will be subject to levies after 1st Jan 2024.

The Thai Revenue Dept has clearly said that:

 

1. Savings transferred into Thailand are nto taxable if the income was earned prior to becoming a Thai resident.

 

2. the terms of DTAs will be respected.

 

Which means that some foreign transfers will be subject to tax but certainly not all.

 

 

[PJ71]

21 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I have done

 

1 - I have stopped my Private Pension being remitted to Thailand after December. 

 

2 - I have googled the location of the nearest Tax Office ( In case I have to go get a TIN )

 

Other than that I will be doing nothing

It will take years of legislation to come into affect.

[Geir Rasch]

If you have a pink ID-card, then that number will be your tax ID. If your country have a tax treaty with Thailand to avoid double tax, my guess is you then can pay tax to Thailand and get refund from your home country.

My home country have a tax treaty with Thailand. That treaty say you should pay tax to Thailand for pension transfered to Thailand if you stay in Thailand for 180 days or more during a tax year. Personally I save a lot by pay tax to Thailand do to higher tax rates in my home country.

[ChaiyaTH]

If you want to give away money you can also PM me

[Yumthai]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

1. Savings transferred into Thailand are nto taxable if the income was earned prior to becoming a Thai resident.

 

Is it income earned prior to becoming a Thai tax resident or income earned during a year one was not resident for tax purposes (meaning being in Thailand less than 180 days in that calendar year)?

 

Meaning is slightly different because one could be tax resident in Thailand every other year. Would each non-tax resident year clear all tax on savings/income earned prior that year?

[The Cyclist]

2 hours ago, PJ71 said:

It will take years of legislation to come into affect.

 

As of today, it is effective as of the 01 Jan 2024.

 

It is not legislation that is being changed, only the interpretation of the legislation. Whoch are 2 different things.

 

Sure, it might well be delayed, but the sensible thing would be to work on the 01 Jan 2024 and treat any delay as a bonus.

 

 

[keithsimmonds]

1 hour ago, Geir Rasch said:

If you have a pink ID-card, then that number will be your tax ID. If your country have a tax treaty with Thailand to avoid double tax, my guess is you then can pay tax to Thailand and get refund from your home country.

My home country have a tax treaty with Thailand. That treaty say you should pay tax to Thailand for pension transfered to Thailand if you stay in Thailand for 180 days or more during a tax year. Personally I save a lot by pay tax to Thailand do to higher tax rates in my home country.

I have a Pink ID card and that number is not the same as my Tax number..both have 13 digits and that is where the similarity ends.

[NanLaew]

On 11/12/2023 at 12:00 PM, RubbaJohnny said:

My pension is taxed at source and my country has a dual taxation treaty

 

If your pension is the ONLY source of income you remit to Thailand, you don't have to do anything.

[Maestro]

57 minutes ago, keithsimmonds said:

I have a Pink ID card and that number is not the same as my Tax number..both have 13 digits and that is where the similarity ends.

 

Thank you for clearing that up.

 

Perhaps it depends on what came first, the assignment of the TIN by the RD or the issuance of the pink ID card.

 

Even if the ID card came first and a TIN was applied for later, eg when taking up employment, the RD may probably assign a different number as TIN if they are not made aware of the ID.

[NanLaew]

5 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

5 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Can you narrow it down a bit ? Believe what ?

 

That all foreign transfers into Thailand will be subject to levies after 1st Jan 2024.

 

...if you are tax-resident in Thailand.

[VocalNeal]

5 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

...if you are tax-resident in Thailand.

 

Exactly.  So no need for the Chicken Little stuff?

Edited November 13, 2023 by VocalNeal

[NanLaew]

2 minutes ago, Maestro said:

 

Thank you for clearing that up.

 

Perhaps it depends on what came first, the assignment of the TIN by the RD or the issuance of the pink ID card.

 

Even if the ID card came first and a TIN was applied for later, eg when taking up employment, the RD may probably assign a different number as TIN if they are not made aware of the ID.

 

This is correct. If applying for a Thai Tax ID Number and you are already have been issued a yellow book and/or pink ID card, you should advise your local revenue office of this when you make the application so they use the same number.

 

As far as I know, having a yellow book/pink ID card does not mean this information will be shared automatically with the RD.

[NanLaew]

1 minute ago, VocalNeal said:

 

Exactly. Which most expats are not? So no need for the Chicken Little stuff?

 

Some "gullible" member who is Thailand tax resident may jump in on this last page, see your comment and incorrectly take it at face value.

 

Having said that, I agree that there's really nothing to panic about at the moment. Just pay attention to what happens in the New Year.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, keithsimmonds said:

I have a Pink ID card and that number is not the same as my Tax number..both have 13 digits and that is where the similarity ends.

 

How do you think that happened? Did you, your employer or agency forget to ask if you already had a yellow book or pink ID card when sorting out your job, or did you fail to mention it to the local revenue office? I would assume it's very easy for 'duplicate' ID's to be issued when there's no sharing of databases, and the RD haven't bothered with this regulation for many years already.

[khunPer]

Foreigners in Thailand can get a TIN (Tax Identification Number) at the local customs office. You need either a work permit, or proof of being a tax resident. The latter means proof of staying in the country for more than 180 days within a calendar year. The office might also wish proof of income.

Tax return is now online and needs to be done in Thai language. You can download the P.N.D.90 form in English translation, so you know in which form-numbers to state your income. Otherwise, the local tax-payment office will normally be kind to help you.

[Toby1947]

On 11/12/2023 at 7:50 AM, expat_4_life said:

 

Good post ...
Contrary to a lot of speculation on the topic, threads like "Change in the tax law does target expats living in Thailand" ... I actually think they are after bigger fish, multi-national companies that do annual remittances of last years off-shore earnings.

I don't see it effecting a lot of pensioners as you have pointed out DTA's, who knows the eventual outcome?  Perhaps to avoid complicating things for us and themselves, they will simply leave retirees alone - some combination of they don't want to discourage current/future retirees and it more trouble than it is worth.

Only time will tell ....

More trouble than it's worth 🤣😂🤣 don't worry they'll gouge every baht humanly possible. Nothing new there business as usual 🤣😁😅

[CartagenaWarlock]

On 11/12/2023 at 1:50 AM, expat_4_life said:

multi-national companies that do annual remittances of last years off-shore earnings.

Not only multi-national companies, but any person who earns outside and remits it to Thailand must pay any difference between US taxes and Thai taxes. For most US citizens, I don't see any issue because they must report their world-wide incomes to IRA and pay US taxes first for all incomes in the US. As an example, let's say you sold a house in the US and netted a capital gain of $200,000. Depending on your situation, you either pay US taxes or don't pay them. If you don't pay, you must pay in Thailand, no matter when you bring the money. If you have already paid US taxes, you can deduct the taxes from your Thai obligation.

[Geir Rasch]

2 hours ago, keithsimmonds said:

I have a Pink ID card and that number is not the same as my Tax number..both have 13 digits and that is where the similarity ends.

Yes, if you dont show the pink card they will generate a different number for you. First time I paid tax I got a different number, but later I got it changed to the number on the pink card. So you can have same as pink card, or you can have a different number. Remember that your bank accounts must be connectee to your tax ID because the bank take 15% of interest i tax. With that number you can use that tax as part of your total tax.

[federicoP]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

If your pension is the ONLY source of income you remit to Thailand, you don't have to do anything.

 

Not necessarily, the taxes on your pension could be lower in Thailand than in your native country.

 

Personally I have been paying taxes on my pension in Thailand for ten years and I am saving money.

 

Before going to conclusions much better to read carefully the DTA applicable to his own case

[The Cyclist]

31 minutes ago, federicoP said:

 

Not necessarily, the taxes on your pension could be lower in Thailand than in your native country.

 

Personally I have been paying taxes on my pension in Thailand for ten years and I am saving money.

 

Before going to conclusions much better to read carefully the DTA applicable to his own case

 

DTA's aside.

 

In the UK, there are many different Pensions that will always be taxed in the UK, regardless of where in the World you decide to live / retire to.

 

If you only have a single UK based pension then you get the first £12,570 ( Bahtt 550,000 ) tax free, before you start incurring UK tax.

 

Not as simple as reading the appropriate DTA.

[federicoP]

9 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

In the UK, there are many different Pensions that will always be taxed in the UK

 

 Thailand has DTA with 61 different countries, it is worth to check his own

Edited November 13, 2023 by federicoP
missing phrase

[Woof999]

On 11/12/2023 at 2:07 PM, expat_4_life said:

 

Did not mean to imply u seem stressed but many people are totally Hair-on-Fire freaking out, something I cant even begin to fathom

(where is my Hair-on-Fire emoji anyway )

 

For some of us the changes, if they go ahead, could have a huge impact.

 

I was due to remit 5M baht+ to Thailand after 1st January. Money that was earned outside of the UK so has no tax basis there, and would be remitted to Thailand outside of the year it was earner, so no tax here either.

 

The law change could make me liable for a 1.2M baht Thai tax bill next year.

[keithsimmonds]

3 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

How do you think that happened? Did you, your employer or agency forget to ask if you already had a yellow book or pink ID card when sorting out your job, or did you fail to mention it to the local revenue office? I would assume it's very easy for 'duplicate' ID's to be issued when there's no sharing of databases, and the RD haven't bothered with this regulation for many years already.

Yellow book first (2018)..one year later(2019)claimed for rebate for withheld Tax on interest then(2020) got Pink Id card. To be honest i would say that the RD had never seen a Farang before and the whole process of registering for the Tax id number was not Painless,i gave them more than enough paperwok, copies of 3 different bank accounts, Passport, Yellow Tabien Baan etc .Hence it took nearly 5 months to get the Tax back and 3 more visits to RD department (every 90 days)..the next 2 years easy peasy done and dusted in under 6 weeks.

Now no more visits to RD as Tax is no longer being withheld.

[RubbaJohnny]

On 11/12/2023 at 1:32 PM, Startmeup said:

As of now there is no new rules. No proper disclosure has been made to make any informative decision regarding a tax change. 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2023/11/04/tax-change-for-expats-living-in-thailand/


To answer the OP question yes a foreigner can get a TAX ID, I have one but have not done any tax returns.

Thanks one of the few to reply to my question rather than those who naturally wish to avoid,going back to my original question can I get a Tax ID online , if not where?

[Startmeup]

23 hours ago, RubbaJohnny said:

Thanks one of the few to reply to my question rather than those who naturally wish to avoid,going back to my original question can I get a Tax ID online , if not where?

Local tax offices should be your first port of call. Doubtful it can be done online.