Payment of income tax under Section 41, paragraph two of the Revenue Code

[webfact]

Revenue Department orders No. P.162/2023

 

In order for revenue officials to consider this as a practice guideline for inspecting and giving advice to those residing in Thailand which has assessable income according to Section 40 of the Revenue Code. In the past tax year Due to work dues or business conducted abroad or because of assets located abroad according to section 41, paragraph two of the Revenue Code The Revenue Department has ordered the following: 

 

Add the following as the second paragraph of Section 1 of the Revenue Department Order No. P.161/2023 regarding: Payment of income tax according to Section 41, paragraph two of the Revenue Code, dated 15 September 2023. 

 

“The provisions of paragraph one shall not apply to assessable income arising before 1 January 2024.” 

 

Ordered on 20 November 2023 Kunlaya Tantemit 

(Miss Kulaya Tantemit)
Director General of the Comptroller General's Department acting government official Director General of the Revenue Department 

 

Revenue-Department-Order-No-P.162A-2023.pdf

[TroubleandGrumpy]

IMO this is the new rule for Revenue Officers at Thai RD that has been officially 'published' and which states that what was previously not assesable income is now assesable income after January 1 2024 for "Due to work dues or business conducted abroad or because of assets located abroad" 

 

What is needed is for the Thai RD to clarifiy what type of Expat's money remitted into Thailand is deemed as 'assesable income'.  

Until then we dont know what is going to be viewed as taxable income, and we are all stil 'watching this space'.

 

I read yesterday on another Forum a lot of useful and useless information - no one knows what is going to happen. But there was one comment that rang true IMO. 

'They completely screwed up the 'maryjane' issue and ended up with thousands of shops selling it for almost 2 years now - which was not what they planned - and which they cannot shut - and they are still trying to shut them down.  If anyone thinks they cannot screw up this income tax rule change, and if they do they will quickly rectify things, then they are being either extremely delusional or extremely hopeful.  Start planning people - if it does all work out well then good - but if it all goes to Hell in a handbasket, it would be good to have some idea what your individual options are.' 

[jerrymahoney]

3 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Start planning people - if it does all work out well then good - but if it all goes to Hell in a handbasket, it would be good to have some idea what your individual options are.' 

Yes. As in Sir Alfred Hitchcock's North by Northwest:

 

Roger -- pay the 5 dollars.

[RupertIII]

This is even more worrying - https://www.prachachat.net/finance/news-1443480

Google translation of the last paragraph, immediately above the copy of the official order:- In the future, the Revenue Department will amend Section 41 of the Revenue Code by immediately calculating tax in the year in which income is earned abroad. Regardless of whether money is brought into the country or not, however, it may take 1-2 years to amend the law.

[samtam]

25 minutes ago, RupertIII said:

This is even more worrying - https://www.prachachat.net/finance/news-1443480

Google translation of the last paragraph, immediately above the copy of the official order:- In the future, the Revenue Department will amend Section 41 of the Revenue Code by immediately calculating tax in the year in which income is earned abroad. Regardless of whether money is brought into the country or not, however, it may take 1-2 years to amend the law.

 

Well, there will probably be a new government by then, so volte face all round, (from 180 to 270 degrees, depending on the time of the year, and the phase of the moon).

Edited November 23, 2023 by samtam

[mikebell]

4 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

it would be good to have some idea what your individual options are.'

 

I'm off to Laos & taking my 800K with me.

[OccamsRazor]

Quite a few groups, agencies and individuals are already announcing taking them to court as unconstitutional.  :-)

[ukrules]

2 hours ago, RupertIII said:

Regardless of whether money is brought into the country or not, however, it may take 1-2 years to amend the law.

 

Yeah, that's never going to happen, good luck with the vote on that law change.

 

It is 'nice' of them to let everyone off the hook for anything prior to Jan 1, 2024 which is the way I read it.

I guess they don't want to do 10 years of paperwork processing for what will likely be very little return.

Edited November 23, 2023 by ukrules

[OzzBlizz]

 

[Pouatchee]

12 minutes ago, OzzBlizz said:

 

 

what the hey!

started reading and this post jumped outta nowhere... talk about hijacking

[Morch]

Whoa....10 million baht annual exemption as 'gift'?

 

I have family back home I could trust with such matters, shouldn't be too complicated to set up.

Not really spending that much anyway.

 

On the other hand, there's something confusing about her face, so dunno....

Edited November 23, 2023 by Morch

[OzzBlizz]

Will be shared one time and no comments from me on the subject. Take it or leave it... 

[MrMuddle]

Can someone put this into layman's terms please. Is Thailand expecting foreign retirees  who live here, pay tax on their pensions from their home countries?

[Dogmatix]

37 minutes ago, OzzBlizz said:

 

 

Worth bearing in mind that she is an agent selling Thai Privilege memberships on commission. That's why she is smiling so much.

[Dogmatix]

7 hours ago, RupertIII said:

This is even more worrying - https://www.prachachat.net/finance/news-1443480

Google translation of the last paragraph, immediately above the copy of the official order:- In the future, the Revenue Department will amend Section 41 of the Revenue Code by immediately calculating tax in the year in which income is earned abroad. Regardless of whether money is brought into the country or not, however, it may take 1-2 years to amend the law.

 

Indeed. The first prediction in the artilce this that the RD would amnesty income generated before 2024 has already come to pass. 

[OzzBlizz]

Just now, Dogmatix said:

 

Worth bearing in mind that she is an agent selling Thai Privilege memberships on commission. That's why she is smiling so much.

Pretty much what you do when you are confident and have all your bases covered. I feel more at ease listening to her than the American lawyer with bad hair, that seems to be buying into the hype and paranoia. 

[OzzBlizz]

11 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

 

Indeed. The first prediction in the artilce this that the RD would amnesty income generated before 2024 has already come to pass. 

Can you explain a little better, what you mean? Especially from an article that loses a lot in translation? 🤔

[daveAustin]

4 hours ago, MrMuddle said:

Can someone put this into layman's terms please. Is Thailand expecting foreign retirees  who live here, pay tax on their pensions from their home countries?

Nobody knows yet, least of all this bogus government.

[Mike Lister]

12 hours ago, RupertIII said:

This is even more worrying - https://www.prachachat.net/finance/news-1443480

Google translation of the last paragraph, immediately above the copy of the official order:- In the future, the Revenue Department will amend Section 41 of the Revenue Code by immediately calculating tax in the year in which income is earned abroad. Regardless of whether money is brought into the country or not, however, it may take 1-2 years to amend the law.

"In the future".....that people can see such things is truly amazing, presumably an AI system will calculate such tax!   

 

Ah Mr Farang, we assess you owe us X Baht tax this year because you have a rental property/investment account in the UK that will have earned Y income, okay? 

 

If anyone believes that will come to pass, I own a bridge that's for sale in San Francisco.

 

 

 

 

[vangrop]

I have no income. I am a tourist. I travel around. I go sometimes to Laos, Vietnam , Philippines, Hong Kong, Japan etc I am not a resident, I am just a tourist as said and I don"t care Section  my a$$ of the Revenue Code located abroad according to section my appendice paragraph down under of the allocation Code (no Revenues) Department has ordered the following: i don't add any of the following as the first, second, third, fourth, jesus I forgot which paragraph of Section 1 2 3 4 5 I also forgot of the Revenue or spend Department Order or No. P.123/4567 regarding: receiving of income tax according to Section this was 69 , paragraph again forgot the number of the Spending Code, dated near future. I only have bitcoins so I really don't feel involved. ???????????

[OzzBlizz]

3 minutes ago, vangrop said:

I have no income. I am a tourist. I travel around. I go sometimes to Laos, Vietnam , Philippines, Hong Kong, Japan etc I am not a resident, I am just a tourist as said and I don"t care Section  my a$$ of the Revenue Code located abroad according to section my appendice paragraph down under of the allocation Code (no Revenues) Department has ordered the following: i don't add any of the following as the first, second, third, fourth, jesus I forgot which paragraph of Section 1 2 3 4 5 I also forgot of the Revenue or spend Department Order or No. P.123/4567 regarding: receiving of income tax according to Section this was 69 , paragraph again forgot the number of the Spending Code, dated near future. I only have bitcoins so I really don't feel involved. ???????????

And your point being?

[TroubleandGrumpy]

18 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

Yes. As in Sir Alfred Hitchcock's North by Northwest:

Roger -- pay the 5 dollars.

It was actually 'Pay the 2 dollars Roger" - but I accept your point.

It would be OK if they wanted just a few dollars - but it looks like maybe they are after a lot more.

As Dusty said - Wishin' and hopin' and thinkin' and prayin' 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

17 hours ago, mikebell said:

 

I'm off to Laos & taking my 800K with me.

I know of several blokes who are doing same - Cambodia or Laos.

They plan to return for no more than 179 days each year - 2 times on a Automatic Visa (hopefully 90 days by then).

As one bloke said - I can always pop over to Thailand for any required medical procedure, and the Loas, Cambodia and Malayis emergency services are OK - keep the money in Thailand to pay for things if/when needed.

One bloke said he is going to check out all the neighbours including Malaysia (not Myanmar) - then back to Pattaya/Jomtien for 3 mths at a time.

TAT will be happy - more tourists - and each Expat re-entering Thailand 2 times a year counts as 2 tourists 

 

[jerrymahoney]

44 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

It was actually 'Pay the 2 dollars Roger" - but I accept your point.

OOPS very good. I just watched it . Got my dollar quotes mixed-up. it was:

Eve Kendall: I tipped the steward five dollars to seat you here if you should come in.

 

Again -- for the retirement coterie who brings in 65K+ baht every month -- it would be right now with available deductions about $US 100 per month income tax bill without any DTA-type exclusions.

[Mike Teavee]

7 hours ago, vangrop said:

I have no income. I am a tourist. I travel around. I go sometimes to Laos, Vietnam , Philippines, Hong Kong, Japan etc I am not a resident, I am just a tourist as said and I don"t care Section  my a$$ of the Revenue Code located abroad according to section my appendice paragraph down under of the allocation Code (no Revenues) Department has ordered the following: i don't add any of the following as the first, second, third, fourth, jesus I forgot which paragraph of Section 1 2 3 4 5 I also forgot of the Revenue or spend Department Order or No. P.123/4567 regarding: receiving of income tax according to Section this was 69 , paragraph again forgot the number of the Spending Code, dated near future. I only have bitcoins so I really don't feel involved. ???????????

Technically if you spend >179 days in Thailand in any one calendar year then you are Tax Resident & if you spend < 180 days here you are not Tax Resident irrespective of what kind of Visa you use.

 

Crypto Capital Gains seem to be one of the areas that they are looking to target, but again this won't make a difference to you if you spend < 180 days here.  

 

 

[salavan]

I'm wondering if it's taxed when it's brought into Thailand is it considered "brought into Thailand" If it's kept it a FCD account as a foreign currency or when it's changed into Thai baht? 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

36 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

OOPS very good. I just watched it . Got my dollar quotes mixed-up. it was:

Eve Kendall: I tipped the steward five dollars to seat you here if you should come in.

 

Again -- for the retirement coterie who brings in 65K+ baht every month -- it would be right now with available deductions about $US 100 per month income tax bill without any DTA-type exclusions.

Yes indeed - well spotted.

Most of the blokes living off only their pensions should be fine - but for some of them 3,000 Baht a month is a worry.

As someone who is bringing in a lot more, and with plans in some years to bring in a large amoun (car/property, etc), it is a big concern. 

Plus of course it is the principle of the thing, not just the principal amount - as someone once said. 

[jerrymahoney]

UOB Singapore will issue (under certain circumstances) A Singapore based mortgage for property in Thailand.

 

https://www.uob.com.sg/personal/borrow/property-loans/international-property-loan.page

[Dogmatix]

18 hours ago, OzzBlizz said:

Can you explain a little better, what you mean? Especially from an article that loses a lot in translation? 🤔

 

The Prachachart article accurately predicted that the RD would issue an order to amend the first order by amnestying foreign source income generated prior to 2024.  It also quoted an unnamed source saying they would amend the Revenue Code to introduce global taxation of all income for tax residents whether it is remitted to Thailand or not, as happens in many other countries.  My point is that the Prachachart reporters were well informed. However, amending the Revenue Code is a large undertaking that needs to go through parliament.

[mikebell]

21 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I know of several blokes who are doing same - Cambodia or Laos.

They plan to return for no more than 179 days each year - 2 times on a Automatic Visa (hopefully 90 days by then).

As one bloke said - I can always pop over to Thailand for any required medical procedure, and the Loas, Cambodia and Malayis emergency services are OK - keep the money in Thailand to pay for things if/when needed.

One bloke said he is going to check out all the neighbours including Malaysia (not Myanmar) - then back to Pattaya/Jomtien for 3 mths at a time.

TAT will be happy - more tourists - and each Expat re-entering Thailand 2 times a year counts as 2 tourists 

 

How easy is it to take my car?  I accept it will be a righthand drive amongst most lefthanders.