Experts say lowest ever PISA score is a wakeup call for Thailand’s failing education system

[poyai111]

9 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

 

Yes, this is the real problem. It ain't the crappy teachers. It's the family.

 

When I was at school, the teachers were crap, "Open your book, read the text, answer the questions, and I'll be here sitting at my desk if you need any help" lol. I don't think they ever had a lesson plan.

 

Thai families are shocking for not encouraging children to ask questions, read books, be creative etc etc.

 

They barely spend time together, except eating or walking around a mall. Parents here don't take an interest in their children's passions or try to stimulate them at all.

 

So long as their child is: fed, watered,  washed,  and wearing decent clothes - that's it! Job done!

 

There are exceptions, of course, and their kids shine in the classroom and do well - crappy teacher or not!

 

Others don't want to learn. It's fascinating how so many people are incredibly resistant to learning anything at all. 

It's the teachers obligation to encourage curiosity - from this virtue comes discovery and learning. Students must understand that the most important word in every language is "why?" If the response is truthful then trust between teacher and student has been established. The truth is liberating lies enslave. Education must be the inculcations of the virtues of society in tandem with the extension of levels of literacy commensurate with other nations 

[Bangkok Barry]

9 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

They barely spend time together, except eating or walking around a mall. Parents here don't take an interest in their children's passions or try to stimulate them at all.

Indeed. Thai parents often differ those in the West and don't even raise their kids at all, but pass them on to grandparents or other relatives. We have a nephew living with us while his mother spends most of the year in Hungary with her Dutch husband. And another sister-in-law is raising another boy while his parents work elsewhere.

 

Thais have kids as an insurance policy so they will be taken care of in their old age, and otherwise have little interest in them. With no pension scheme to speak of (I think the government pension is 600 a month), it could be argued they have a point, but that still doesn't excuse them taking little or no interest in their offspring. Ironic when every book we read about Thailand tells us how close Thai families are.

[Bangkok Barry]

35 minutes ago, AustinRacing said:

Another issue is assessment. Kids don’t fail here. It’s bad for teacher or school to fail students so the kids go through the system regardless of their competency. 

 

Yes. A nephew that lives with us has been learning English for eight years but can't put a sentence together. But he was still given his turn as number one in his class for English.

[Chongalulu]

32 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I was reading recently that the scores in the UK weren't brilliant either, Germany also had less than stellar scores.

You're talking orders of magnitude of difference,just look at the actual scores. Secondly, and especially in Germany scores are being depressed due to the increase in immigrants.

[mran66]

Education system works exactly as it is designed to work, ministry sure is getting bonuses from the power holders for these results.

 

Good eduction for the masses would be disastrous for the "country" as they say. Good for the people though. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by mran66

[remobb]

As a foreign teacher in Thailand I often hear about poor teachers. I have been teaching here for 25 years and have seen many reasons why this is so. It's not always the teacher that is at fault. In many cases the teachers are dictated on what and how to teach by the people in charge that think they know better. Many of these 'dictators' have very little knowledge of what goes on in the classroom. Yes, they have a masters degree or even a doctorate degree but have never been in the classroom long enough to understand the problems. They have read books that others have written, so they know everything. Many teachers want to teach the way they have been taught but are not allowed to do so because the school want it done their way.

I do not profess to have all the answers but there are so many basic things that could help to improve the life and learning of students at school.

I think students have too many subjects in one day. To have 8 different subjects in one day in my opinion is at least 3 too many. Students and indeed humans in general are only capable of processing a certain amount of knowledge each time, therefore much of it is lost and not remembered.

There are weak students (not poor) mixed with good students, therefore holding back the good students from more advanced learning. Schools do not (in my opinion) segregate the weak and better students.

There are those students that are just bad students that are not interested to learn. I have had students that do not listen to teachers for whatever reason. In one instance I have heard a student comment that their parents said they do not need to listen to foreign teachers.

I could go on but as I said, I don't have all the answers. Many may disagree with what I wrote but again it is my opinion.

Unless the whole nation changes it's attitude about learning, they will never improve only go backwards.

 

Thanks for reading. Stop blaming the teachers.

[thailand49]

Around 10 years ago Read read an article like this critical of their system by experts outside and inside of Thailand not afraid to speak and that was after Thai leaders made changes. 

Critical of the changes werent good enough so the results should be of no surprise.

The thought isnt pretty but I agree if you keep the masses dumb and stupid you can control them to just follow and accept thus " This is Thailand "  

You cant get upset about something if one doesnt have a clue what they are missing.

[ThaiFelix]

14 hours ago, keith101 said:

You can't blame the students the failure lies squarely with teachers and their obvious lack of skill and or knowledge in actual teaching

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.  I taught for a very large chain of private schools in Bangkok for 10 years and am certain that as soon as school directors/management start considering schools as educational institutions instead of cash cows things will improve dramatically.   So much valuable school time and resources are wasted on the school promoting itself with activities such as Open days, Sports days, Parents days etc etc.  Whats wrong with for example Sports Days?  Nothing is wrong with Sports day.  What I objected to was losing my students for the last period each day for 3 weeks so they could practise cheering??  Thats right, 15 hours wasted on looking good for the parents.  That is a tiny example of what goes on daily right across the board.

 

Schools also need to pay real salaries if they want real teachers.  Some teachers today are earning less today than when I started 20 years ago.  Sure there are some bad teachers but in my experience its only a very small proportion, there are many fine teachers out there who are unfortunately hamstrung by the schools.

 

I cant really speak about Government schools but from what I hear the situation is the same.  After I retired and moved to Isaan I was offered a job in a local government school.  I refused saying I was retired but the director kept coming back week after week with an increase in salary and a reduction in the hours I would need to 'attend'.  He finally gave up after he reached the figure they were paying the previous teacher who unbeknown to him, I knew previously.  The director had been skimming the teachers salary and couldnt care less what was taught so long as a white face was seen around the school from time to time.

 

Nothing will change.

[FruitPudding]

46 minutes ago, poyai111 said:

It's the teachers obligation to encourage curiosity - from this virtue comes discovery and learning. Students must understand that the most important word in every language is "why?" If the response is truthful then trust between teacher and student has been established. The truth is liberating lies enslave. Education must be the inculcations of the virtues of society in tandem with the extension of levels of literacy commensurate with other nations 

 

Yeah, but a farmer can't do much with bad soil.

 

Likewise, a teacher can't do much with a kid whose parents haven't laid the groundwork. 

[Lucky Bones]

5 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

Around 10 years ago Read read an article like this critical of their system by experts outside and inside of Thailand not afraid to speak and that was after Thai leaders made changes. 

Critical of the changes werent good enough so the results should be of no surprise.

The thought isnt pretty but I agree if you keep the masses dumb and stupid you can control them to just follow and accept thus " This is Thailand "  

You cant get upset about something if one doesnt have a clue what they are missing.

Fair call. Sounds like you are describing my village. The locals simply go about their daily business.

Uneducated? Sure.....but many they can fix things with a length of rusty wire.

 

Sure, they blah blah & use social media but that is where it ends.

Voting?......show them the money.🙃🙃

[FruitPudding]

45 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Indeed. Thai parents often differ those in the West and don't even raise their kids at all, but pass them on to grandparents or other relatives. We have a nephew living with us while his mother spends most of the year in Hungary with her Dutch husband. And another sister-in-law is raising another boy while his parents work elsewhere.

 

Thais have kids as an insurance policy so they will be taken care of in their old age, and otherwise have little interest in them. With no pension scheme to speak of (I think the government pension is 600 a month), it could be argued they have a point, but that still doesn't excuse them taking little or no interest in their offspring. Ironic when every book we read about Thailand tells us how close Thai families are.

 

I agree, the family relationships I have witnessed here are neglectful, abusive, and parasitic.

 

I get that it happens everywhere, but I've seen it more here than anywhere else, especially in low socio-economic areas - which is the majority of the population. 

 

I think Western family culture is a lot more genuinely loving, even in times of deprivation.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by FruitPudding

[Andycoops]

Government policy to keep the masses where they are in society.

The teaching standards generally are a absolute disgrace, rote learning in the 21C, pathetic.

Corruption everywhere starting with getting a teachers job in the 1st place, school meals, material purchasing scams abound.

Rotten to the core in the vast majority of places.

[Lopburikid]

15 hours ago, Pouatchee said:

 

totally agree... but must not forget the parents who dont get involved in their kids education (checking on homework, explaining concepts kids dont understand) and who are quick to protest if their kids get in trouble or get poor scores. education belongs to society and all must work together to make it work

I think you will find the same is happening in the UK standards are dropping due to, Calculators used in a math's test; dictionaries used in an English test. Computers that correct every mistake you make, a phone that tells you the time (another thing they no longer teach) speaks the message so they don't have to read it, tap in 2 or 3 letters and it gives them a choice of words to use, so they don't have to know how to spell it. Times have changed. Plus, what language are the tests in, Thai, English?????????

[Ombra]

My wife's two grandsons both went to a private school, and when they were about 8 and 10 years of age their father showed me a lesson from their English textbook. It was entitled, "The duties of the clergy and the laity during Buddhist Lent" and the language was very advanced. These little boys, however, were able to read and answer the questions that followed the text, but in fact they understood nothing because they had just memorized it. They could not understand a single word I said to them, and their only words in English were "Hello how are you I am fine thanks", which came out as a single utterance. What depressed me at the time was that their father, who spoke decent English, didn't care that the school was wasting their time because the boys were getting good grades.

[Kalorymetr]

2 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Whilst I applaud Thailand for wanting the children to understand Thai culture, my daughter sometimes spends an entire day celebrating some religious day and doing absolutely nothing else for the rest of the day at school. 

 

For those knocking teachers, my wife was a teacher and went to uni/school until 25 before leaving to teach. She was extremely educated for her kindergarten role, she has folders upon folders of certificates. HOWEVER - the teachers are NOT educated about foreign matters, she had no idea what 9/11 was, who Hitler was or that Australia is nearer to Thailand than my UK ! 

It's her fault, not taking any interest in outside world. Same with my gf and I don't blame education. (She's also a teacher) 

[poyai111]

30 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

 

Yeah, but a farmer can't do much with bad soil.

 

Likewise, a teacher can't do much with a kid whose parents haven't laid the groundwork. 

Agreed - 

 

32 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

 

Yeah, but a farmer can't do much with bad soil.

 

Likewise, a teacher can't do much with a kid whose parents haven't laid the groundwork. 

Agree wholeheartedly. Those virtues of which I refer should be initiated by the parents . The school's role is to confirm them

[FruitPudding]

The funny thing is: there are probably more farang in this thread who care about it than Thais.

[Purdey]

Once had a chat with a permanent secretary of the ministry of education. He was excited after returning from Sweden. Swedes speak excellent English and tv there shows the BBC without translation.

i suggested he implement English TV entertainment channels here.

 

He became serious.

 

We are Thai, he said. We are proud of our language and have no need for English tv here.

 

A few minutes later he mentioned that his son had got into a US university and would I help him practice English before leaving.

 

Yes, the elite don’t want the kids of ordinary people to achieve high standards in order to ensure their own kids are a rung above.

 

There is no way to change this. Rich parents want their children to inherit Thailand. 

[klauskunkel]

Quote

“Relevant parties need to work on reversing the trend,” he insisted.

Thai authorities should begin by changing the way classes are conducted and scrapping the system of rote learning or cramming students with information to remember, he added.

“In math, for instance, the focus should be on thinking and solving problems. For reading, the focus should be comprehension, interpretation and synthesis.”

One academic's voice...

But we have all read over decades how ineffective and outdated curriculums and teaching methods are, the story never changes. A new Education Minister appears, vows to do this'n that, only to be replaced by an other one some time later who also vows the same, and round and round it goes... Leading me to believe that all this is designed to dumb down the population while keeping the status quo of the Thai Elite intact, since they can have their kids educated abroad if they want.

[Hakuna Matata]

This is no surprise.

 

In many schools in Thailand homework is not enforced. Pupils are getting used to relaxed studying in sabai-sabai style. TIT

 

Especially with the start of Covid-19, children did not go to school for one year and a half in Thailand.

[superal]

57 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.  I taught for a very large chain of private schools in Bangkok for 10 years and am certain that as soon as school directors/management start considering schools as educational institutions instead of cash cows things will improve dramatically.   So much valuable school time and resources are wasted on the school promoting itself with activities such as Open days, Sports days, Parents days etc etc.  Whats wrong with for example Sports Days?  Nothing is wrong with Sports day.  What I objected to was losing my students for the last period each day for 3 weeks so they could practise cheering??  Thats right, 15 hours wasted on looking good for the parents.  That is a tiny example of what goes on daily right across the board.

 

Schools also need to pay real salaries if they want real teachers.  Some teachers today are earning less today than when I started 20 years ago.  Sure there are some bad teachers but in my experience its only a very small proportion, there are many fine teachers out there who are unfortunately hamstrung by the schools.

 

I cant really speak about Government schools but from what I hear the situation is the same.  After I retired and moved to Isaan I was offered a job in a local government school.  I refused saying I was retired but the director kept coming back week after week with an increase in salary and a reduction in the hours I would need to 'attend'.  He finally gave up after he reached the figure they were paying the previous teacher who unbeknown to him, I knew previously.  The director had been skimming the teachers salary and couldnt care less what was taught so long as a white face was seen around the school from time to time.

 

Nothing will change.

Corruption and money number 1 is the accepted way of Thai life . As you point out , 1 mans greed without any concerns for the level of education . I have been told that families with money send their children to schools with good reputations of educational achievements and from there on to university .  Children of working class families have little chance of a decent level of education especially when the school is run by crooked directors which will probably be common .  

[AhFarangJa]

Ignorant, uneducated peasants is what the Government wants. They get that in spades, just field fodder so they can continue to bleed the Country dry. It is, however, not restricted to Thailand. Look at the U.K. students cannot do simple mental arithmetic. History is dumbed down, and the Government is winning with the youth all glued to social media, and other trivial rubbish through their phones, brainwashed by biased news reporting. Same outcome, just a different method.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, remobb said:

As a foreign teacher in Thailand I often hear about poor teachers. I have been teaching here for 25 years and have seen many reasons why this is so. It's not always the teacher that is at fault. In many cases the teachers are dictated on what and how to teach by the people in charge that think they know better. Many of these 'dictators' have very little knowledge of what goes on in the classroom. Yes, they have a masters degree or even a doctorate degree but have never been in the classroom long enough to understand the problems. They have read books that others have written, so they know everything. Many teachers want to teach the way they have been taught but are not allowed to do so because the school want it done their way.

I do not profess to have all the answers but there are so many basic things that could help to improve the life and learning of students at school.

I think students have too many subjects in one day. To have 8 different subjects in one day in my opinion is at least 3 too many. Students and indeed humans in general are only capable of processing a certain amount of knowledge each time, therefore much of it is lost and not remembered.

There are weak students (not poor) mixed with good students, therefore holding back the good students from more advanced learning. Schools do not (in my opinion) segregate the weak and better students.

There are those students that are just bad students that are not interested to learn. I have had students that do not listen to teachers for whatever reason. In one instance I have heard a student comment that their parents said they do not need to listen to foreign teachers.

I could go on but as I said, I don't have all the answers. Many may disagree with what I wrote but again it is my opinion.

Unless the whole nation changes it's attitude about learning, they will never improve only go backwards.

 

Thanks for reading. Stop blaming the teachers.

I taught here for 25 years and agree.

Also, there is a pholosophy used by many Directors, especially the nouveau riche ethnic Chinese, and involves  using certain aspects of philosophical thought to justify or maintain social structures that keep lower classes in relatively disadvantaged positions.

[nausea]

Culture plays a big role, excelling academically just isn't valued that much in Thai society.

[ozz1]

Unfortunately i have seen first hand the teachers well most i have seen get the children to open their books and they get on their phones once you are a teacher they are in it for a cushy job and can borrow as much as you like from the bank its in the thai culture

[superal]

1 hour ago, remobb said:

As a foreign teacher in Thailand I often hear about poor teachers. I have been teaching here for 25 years and have seen many reasons why this is so. It's not always the teacher that is at fault. In many cases the teachers are dictated on what and how to teach by the people in charge that think they know better. Many of these 'dictators' have very little knowledge of what goes on in the classroom. Yes, they have a masters degree or even a doctorate degree but have never been in the classroom long enough to understand the problems. They have read books that others have written, so they know everything. Many teachers want to teach the way they have been taught but are not allowed to do so because the school want it done their way.

I do not profess to have all the answers but there are so many basic things that could help to improve the life and learning of students at school.

I think students have too many subjects in one day. To have 8 different subjects in one day in my opinion is at least 3 too many. Students and indeed humans in general are only capable of processing a certain amount of knowledge each time, therefore much of it is lost and not remembered.

There are weak students (not poor) mixed with good students, therefore holding back the good students from more advanced learning. Schools do not (in my opinion) segregate the weak and better students.

There are those students that are just bad students that are not interested to learn. I have had students that do not listen to teachers for whatever reason. In one instance I have heard a student comment that their parents said they do not need to listen to foreign teachers.

I could go on but as I said, I don't have all the answers. Many may disagree with what I wrote but again it is my opinion.

Unless the whole nation changes it's attitude about learning, they will never improve only go backwards.

 

Thanks for reading. Stop blaming the teachers.

I was told by an English teacher from the UK that he had to stick to the schools curriculum using an outdated Power Point system and any deviation  from the curriculum would end his job . Talented children from poor families have little chance of realizing a good education from a state school . Do you agree ?

[ChrisY1]

The education system is corrupt!

[FruitPudding]

52 minutes ago, Purdey said:

 

He became serious.

 

We are Thai, he said. We are proud of our language and have no need for English tv here.

 

A few minutes later he mentioned that his son had got into a US university and would I help him practice English before leaving.

 

Yes, the elite don’t want the kids of ordinary people to achieve high standards in order to ensure their own kids are a rung above.

 

There is no way to change this. Rich parents want their children to inherit Thailand. 

 

Adorable little critters, aren't they?

 

But, really, why do farang care so much?

 

Let Thais do what they do.

 

Just take care of your own

 

[poyai111]

46 minutes ago, klauskunkel said:

One academic's voice...

But we have all read over decades how ineffective and outdated curriculums and teaching methods are, the story never changes. A new Education Minister appears, vows to do this'n that, only to be replaced by an other one some time later who also vows the same, and round and round it goes... Leading me to believe that all this is designed to dumb down the population while keeping the status quo of the Thai Elite intact, since they can have their kids educated abroad if they want.ma

Many correspondents refer here to the inadequacies of the education system. I have taught in schools which are fairly representative of the low expectations of mediocrity which exist in Thailand. I have been witness to observing both curricula and teaching methods which amplify the "no failure"mentality. No accommodation has been made for remedial teaching of students who under-achieve and this is where the system should concentrate its efforts if improvement is the desired outcome. A task force aimed at providing a cohort of remedial teachers and the institution of such a group in each school, where needed, should be the essential intent of the government 

[herfiehandbag]

36 minutes ago, superal said:

I was told by an English teacher from the UK that he had to stick to the schools curriculum using an outdated Power Point system and any deviation  from the curriculum would end his job . Talented children from poor families have little chance of realizing a good education from a state school . Do you agree ?

Yes I agree, that is very probably what he was told. However whilst keeping the PowerPoint as a framework, almost as a background noise, there are other ways to make lessons interesting, fun and effective. Of course they require considerable preparation, and are hard work, not traits which are that common amongst Thai teachers, 9r some of the foreigners!

 

I am sceptical about the amount of supervision he is under.

In my experience it is minimal and often superficial. When I started I was told that every week I had to submit my lesson plans to my head of department for passing to the principal. I religiously submitted a file each week with a lesson plan, whiteboard plan, list of other teaching aids, and a copy of the appropriate worksheet (I produced one for most lessons), for each of the 20 odd lessons I taught. It wasn't too onerous, the lesson plans etcetera were produced and printed on my computer at home: although of course it increased the printing.

 

The next year the head of department moved offices. The old office was used as a store. I had cause to go in there to look for something, there in a corner, covered in dust, were the complete works of "John Guest", in the order in which they had been submitted!

 

I prepared and submitted a lesson 0lan for P6 in which they were required to read and answer questions on "Winnie Ille Pu" in Latin. No one ever said anything!

 

The problem is partly the dead hand of management, partly the lack of initiative, and frankly interest, amongst many teachers, compounded of course by the omnipresent corruption at all levels - the latter not too bad in the school I taught at, a RC school run by nuns. The one group really not to blame are the children - unfortunately the one group never considered until something like PISA rankings are published!

 

I taught for ten years. It could be frustrating, annoying, and bloody hard work. I loved it, retired two years ago and miss it terribly.

Edited December 15, 2023 by herfiehandbag