Experts say lowest ever PISA score is a wakeup call for Thailand’s failing education system

[Pouatchee]

3 hours ago, cracker1 said:

I don't believe the parents can get involved with their children's education because they suffered the same poor schooling and are left ill equipped to teach.

 

i guarantee you that at the primary level they can. they just dont want to cos it makes them work. another problem, and for some reason it is even worst with foreigners, they could hire a tutor, but they just dont want to pay. also, many just cant afford it. one thing i did notice is that asians hire tutors way more than us farang. 

[VinnieK]

They keep falling in the English proficiency rankings too.

Year after year.

They are fast rising in the obesity charts though...😱

[J Branche]

Bought the girlfriends daughter who is a teacher some English lessons.  She is doing well and can read and speak good. Her son stays with us on break and I make him do 15 minutes of learning games to try to help.  

 

I think we all want the best for the children and future of Thailand 

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, Stargeezr said:

In every country, there are good and bad quality schools. Thailand is no different.

 Richer families pay more and have their children attend the better school and

get better results. In Canada where i live is is not different, there are good and bad schools.

 

But that doesn't mean poor quality education is OK. Never.

[RobU]

3 hours ago, cracker1 said:

I don't believe the parents can get involved with their children's education because they suffered the same poor schooling and are left ill equipped to teach.

I fully agree. I was brought up in slums 2 up 2 down no bathroom and outside toilet. Both my mother and father left school at 14 my mother sent me to an all boys senior school which was supposed to have a good standard Neither she not my father could help with homework, although my father was a good reader and had always read to me hence my English grammar and spelling was good because I read with him. He also bought me educational comics. I also left school at 14 (it was the final year before legislation raised the school leaving age) with no usable qualifications  My dad got me an apprenticeship where I had to go to college one day a week, and I excelled in the college studies. Cut a long story short I got O levels when I was 28, a diploma in sciences and finally a degree in maths as a mature student (mature and student when combined is a total contradiction in terms no male student acts maturely). I was the first person ever in my father's or mother's extended family to get a degree, we have records of achievements going back 400 years. I broke the system by sheer determination. And the fact that at that time higher education was free and students received a cost of living grant. Thailand's educated elitism is very similar to the UK system of my youth with the associated corporal punishment and bullying by teachers  which I endured causing me to withdraw, not ask questions and do as i was told. The only way poor Thai children from poor uneducated families will succeed is if the system is drastically changed.

Edited December 15, 2023 by RobU

[TroubleandGrumpy]

Lots of good thoughts and ideas, so I will just add my 'warning' about getting what you asked for. IMO the western world is full of over-educated idiots who have no idea about anything - they are full of information, but have no knowlegde or understanding. That is what happens when a country embarks on a program of educting everyone, because that is somehow better than pushing back on those not intelligent enoughm while also allowing for them to still 'push throiugh' if they are determined enough.  Now we have over-educated idiots with degrees given to them for 'participation' - eg. all the idiots with gender studies degrees.  By all means raise the standards of Thai education, but please for God's sake done turn them into over-educated idiots with degrees in gender studies or theatre arts or ancient basket weaving techniques etc etc etc.  The biggest idiot that ever worked for me had 3 degrees - Engineering, Marketing and an MBA - great at passing exams, but totally useless in the real world. Got a mate that has a kid who has been at Uni for over 10 years - he does not want to leave and get a real job - why should he. Change it by all means, but I hope they dont make it like the western system. 

[DjSilver]

Are anyone even surprised?

 

Ever since the last scores, I have contacted the responsible people in Thailand to know what schools and parts of Thailand is part of the scores.

 

And, I can tell you this, it's not every school or every province. It is actually only top private and top  international schools in Bangkok.

 

So you know, if public schools would have been added or schools in other provinces, than the result would have been less than half of what it is today.

 

And some parents are so blind, they still pay high tuition fees to send their kids to one of the worst school systems in the world 😂

[Noah K]

My niece and nephew (Thai nationals) both went to international schools here in Chiang Mai. Their English is not bad, but when I asked them about math, it turns out they don't teach algebra 1, algebra 2, or geometry in grade school. I almost fell on the floor. The curriculum is certainly lagging behind the rest of the world. 

[Chongalulu]

2 hours ago, Lopburikid said:

I think you will find the same is happening in the UK standards are dropping due to, Calculators used in a math's test; dictionaries used in an English test. Computers that correct every mistake you make, a phone that tells you the time (another thing they no longer teach) speaks the message so they don't have to read it, tap in 2 or 3 letters and it gives them a choice of words to use, so they don't have to know how to spell it. Times have changed. Plus, what language are the tests in, Thai, English?????????

You could benefit from a computer correcting ”math's "(sic) test and other punctuation issues. 

There is nothing wrong in using a calculator in certain aspects of maths tests, they are an everyday tool in life and they need to demonstrate knowledge of how to use it.

The PISA literacy tests are in their native language,it's a test of literacy. Thailand also fails very badly in separate measures testing English - the worst in ASEAN I understand,which is astonishing given the size and importance of their tourist trade.

[Purdey]

1 hour ago, FruitPudding said:

 

Adorable little critters, aren't they?

 

But, really, why do farang care so much?

 

Let Thais do what they do.

 

Just take care of your own

 

Yes, that is the sensible thing to do. A pity the Thai partner and nephews make it so difficult not to care.

[Chongalulu]

Reading this I'm so grateful of my decision 20 years ago to bring my 9 year old Thai stepdaughter to the UK and putting her through the state education system.Now possessed of A levels including English and Maths and a first in Business Economics she has a well paid job in e commerce. That said I think she's exceptionally bright vs the average Thai student. 

I shudder to think what a waste of her talents leaving her to the Thai educational standards would have meant. 

Thailand's underperformance has held back it's development and that is going to be accentuated further in the modern environment where academic skills are becoming more paramount to function properly. 

[superal]

40 minutes ago, RobU said:

I fully agree. I was brought up in slums 2 up 2 down no bathroom and outside toilet. Both my mother and father left school at 14 my mother sent me to an all boys senior school which was supposed to have a good standard Neither she not my father could help with homework, although my father was a good reader and had always read to me hence my English grammar and spelling was good because I read with him. He also bought me educational comics. I also left school at 14 (it was the final year before legislation raised the school leaving age) with no usable qualifications  My dad got me an apprenticeship where I had to go to college one day a week, and I excelled in the college studies. Cut a long story short I got O levels when I was 28, a diploma in sciences and finally a degree in maths as a mature student (mature and student when combined is a total contradiction in terms no male student acts maturely). I was the first person ever in my father's or mother's extended family to get a degree, we have records of achievements going back 400 years. I broke the system by sheer determination. And the fact that at that time higher education was free and students received a cost of living grant. Thailand's educated elitism is very similar to the UK system of my youth with the associated corporal punishment and bullying by teachers  which I endured causing me to withdraw, not ask questions and do as i was told. The only way poor Thai children from poor uneducated families will succeed is if the system is drastically changed.

Good read and well done

[superal]

7 minutes ago, Chongalulu said:

Reading this I'm so grateful of my decision 20 years ago to bring my 9 year old Thai stepdaughter to the UK and putting her through the state education system.Now possessed of A levels including English and Maths and a first in Business Economics she has a well paid job in e commerce. That said I think she's exceptionally bright vs the average Thai student. 

I shudder to think what a waste of her talents leaving her to the Thai educational standards would have meant. 

Thailand's underperformance has held back it's development and that is going to be accentuated further in the modern environment where academic skills are becoming more paramount to function properly. 

I truly believe that the achievement by your step daughter could be made by other Thai children , if given the chance and they had caring parents as you have shown 

[klauskunkel]

1 hour ago, poyai111 said:

should be the essential intent of the government 

I agree, it should be.

My contention is, however, that all the governments in the 18+years I have been here want a pliable, obedient populace, and they do actively achieve this by un-education. Why do I believe this? Because they had decades to improve and they have the funds and they have the knowledge how, yet...

[brianthainess]

Maybe get the kids in the classroom more, instead of playing ball games, so often, and that waste of time in the playground every morning, Nation , religion, and that bloke I can't mention. And rote learning no criticism allowed don't ask questions the teachers can't answer or they will lose face, get the English spelling tests corrected to proper English, Thay instead of They as one example.

Also try stopping the abuse that goes on in schools so the kids don't have to fear their teachers, from slaps, haircuts and rape. good luck get back to me in 10 yrs. 

[Peterphuket]

Well, in the Netherlands is it not much better, I read recently in the newspaper and it involved not being able to read properly.

[SunsetT]

I have written this before and I will write it again, as it refers to general education and not just English language education:

 

This has gone on for so long that I am convinced that the Thai powers that be do not actually want the Thai population to learn English. This is because without it they cannot learn about the outside World with its relative free thinking, choice and differing standards, education and values. World News is very limited and filtered through mostly partisan Thai media. Online World news in Thai on You tube etc., seems to be mostly Conspiracy Theory which completely distorts their World View and its politics. Most of the Thai population emerging from the appalling State education system remain backward and blinkered due to having learned little more than Nationalism, and obeyance to monarchy, religion, and military. I think that the Thai Establishment have realised that without English; which is for better or worse the international language, the Thai Masses can be more easily controlled, manipulated, and exploited for cheap labour by their mostly Chinese-Thai masters (who own most of the land and businesses). The 'Elite' can maintain 'hereditary' control as only they can afford decent private and/or overseas education for their children.

[superal]

25 minutes ago, SunsetT said:

I have written this before and I will write it again, as it refers to general education and not just English language education:

 

This has gone on for so long that I am convinced that the Thai powers that be do not actually want the Thai population to learn English. This is because without it they cannot learn about the outside World with its relative free thinking, choice and differing standards, education and values. World News is very limited and filtered through mostly partisan Thai media. Online World news in Thai on You tube etc., seems to be mostly Conspiracy Theory which completely distorts their World View and its politics. Most of the Thai population emerging from the appalling State education system remain backward and blinkered due to having learned little more than Nationalism, and obeyance to monarchy, religion, and military. I think that the Thai Establishment have realised that without English; which is for better or worse the international language, the Thai Masses can be more easily controlled, manipulated, and exploited for cheap labour by their mostly Chinese-Thai masters (who own most of the land and businesses). The 'Elite' can maintain 'hereditary' control as only they can afford decent private and/or overseas education for their children.

My thoughts are the same , good summary

[RobU]

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Lots of good thoughts and ideas, so I will just add my 'warning' about getting what you asked for. IMO the western world is full of over-educated idiots who have no idea about anything - they are full of information, but have no knowlegde or understanding. That is what happens when a country embarks on a program of educting everyone, because that is somehow better than pushing back on those not intelligent enoughm while also allowing for them to still 'push throiugh' if they are determined enough.  Now we have over-educated idiots with degrees given to them for 'participation' - eg. all the idiots with gender studies degrees.  By all means raise the standards of Thai education, but please for God's sake done turn them into over-educated idiots with degrees in gender studies or theatre arts or ancient basket weaving techniques etc etc etc.  The biggest idiot that ever worked for me had 3 degrees - Engineering, Marketing and an MBA - great at passing exams, but totally useless in the real world. Got a mate that has a kid who has been at Uni for over 10 years - he does not want to leave and get a real job - why should he. Change it by all means, but I hope they dont make it like the western system. 

Fully agree, the classic sign of the over educated idiots is complexity. e.g. why use one word when you can use 3 or create new meanings for common words (the classic being the use of them and they as pronouns for non gender aligned people). I ended my career as a senior information manager in the NHS and a lot of my job entailed working my way through long winded complex documents from highly educated people trying to create a complex role rather than just doing the job. They cannot do things the simple way and they cost organisations a lot of money

[Cabradelmar]

Sub-standard teachers (overpaid and underworked, yet worshiped as untouchable), rote teaching methods and learning, poor facilities (particularly in the rural areas), old textbooks/materials... not to mention compulsory school ending after the 9th grade (at the age of 15 years old)...  this is, and will always be, Thailand's achilles heal in hopes of any meaningful economic, political and social development.

[RobU]

1 hour ago, superal said:

Good read and well done

What I failed to tell you was that after working for a few years as a skilled airframe fitter, embedded with the R.A.F. and Fleet Air Arm, I had a stint in hospital where I saw my first male nurse, he was a charming State Enrolled Nurse (S.E.N) and was always surrounded by female nurses hanging on his every word. I though "I want some of that". I was also stimulated by the fact that I would be reclassified from Working Class to Middle Class. (I didn''t do it because I wanted to care for people, I was a shy kid who wanted to get laid a lot). So, after I left hospital, I popped into the Local Health Authority building and asked how I could become an S.E.N. (the practical nurse and the mainstay of the NHS at the time) There was what would be called a meme these days circulating the upper ranks of the profession which involved a burley builder coming from the building site and training as a Nurse. I fitted that exactly. I was ushered straight into to see the woman in charge of Nurse training who, with a big grin on her face said "we don't have men training as S.E.N.'s you will have to apply to be a State Registered Nurse (S.R.N.)". I was sent a general nurse application form with the option for applying as S.E.N. carefully crossed out. I had to take the General Nursing Council intelligence test (I had no O levels, and the formal entry requirement was 5 o levels) which I completed in 3/4 of the allotted time and got full marks. I was very miffed when I discovered that the set of S.E.N. pupils who started at the same time as my set of S.R.N. students had 6 males in it and there were only 3 males in the S.R.N. set I belonged to. Because I was naturally shy around girls, I decided to be more outgoing and friendly and was immediately ostracized because they thought I was hitting on them.  I passed all the final exams with flying colours (many of the snobby girls in my set who had got top marks for all their coursework submissions actually failed and either had to retake the exam or were automatically given S.E.N. Status). That was when I decided to take O levels and the rest goes on from there.

 

[khunpin]

I'm NOT surprised. I have been teaching at several government schools in Thailand for more than 4 years. If students can't fail their classes - there's no pressure to learn anything. 

Family will help to survive. It's more fun to "play games" or watch EPL at night. 

The worst students were male and between 12 and 15 years old. 

[LivingNThailand]

22 hours ago, Forrests Father said:

the education system does not encourage thinking, challenging and problem solving.

it’s about repetition and following ancient rules which are not applicable now in a modern environment.

One of the first things I learned when I moved here is to NEVER ask a question that started with WHY.   WHY encourages thinking, is challenging, and problem solving.  

[LivingNThailand]

3 hours ago, brianthainess said:

get the English spelling tests corrected to proper English

A Thai friend asked me to look at her daughter's English test and correct the problems the daughter had.  There were about 100 questions.  After about 50 I was saying, this is ridiculous.  About 20-30% of the questions did not make any sense, and the answers were WRONG.  Can't they have an English speaking person look at the questions and make them correct?  I was in Vietnam a few weeks ago and was amazed how many young people spoke English.   

[brianthainess]

34 minutes ago, LivingNThailand said:

A Thai friend asked me to look at her daughter's English test and correct the problems the daughter had.  There were about 100 questions.  After about 50 I was saying, this is ridiculous.  About 20-30% of the questions did not make any sense, and the answers were WRONG.  Can't they have an English speaking person look at the questions and make them correct?  I was in Vietnam a few weeks ago and was amazed how many young people spoke English.   

My mate, walked right up to the stage in assembly and asked who taught his girl English, and in front of the whole school berated the teacher. To cut a long story short they asked HIM to correct their book, he said NO I pay 6k a term YOU sort it out. that was about 10yrs ago.

[wealthychef]

It's convenient to keep your population ignorant.  I don't expect any action on this.  What's the benefit of educating people?  They will just make trouble.  

[Kalorymetr]

8 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

 

Adorable little critters, aren't they?

 

But, really, why do farang care so much?

 

Let Thais do what they do.

 

Just take care of your own

 

Exactly. Why bother? Can't fix it anyway.

[herfiehandbag]

9 hours ago, VinnieK said:

They keep falling in the English proficiency rankings too.

Year after year.

They are fast rising in the obesity charts though...😱

Pass a law making it mandatory to order in English in KFC and Macdonalds?😆

[herfiehandbag]

14 hours ago, hotchilli said:

And where does the budget go for education... well that's a whole other subject.

Absolutely. Whatever the problems in Thai education, a shortage of money in the initial allocation is not one of them!

[dinsdale]

On 12/14/2023 at 5:00 PM, keith101 said:

You can't blame the students the failure lies squarely with teachers and their obvious lack of skill and or knowledge in actual teaching

I'm guessing you are not a teacher. I'm also guessing you are not a teacher in Thailand. Maybe your teachers also failed in your education as you seem to have very low skills in punctuation.