US citizen, better to marry Thai in US or in Thailand (registered)?

[khunjeff]

56 minutes ago, sirineou said:

1 hour ago, GinBoy2 said:

On item 2, if you are applying for a US greencard, makes no difference to USCIS if you were married in the US or Thailand, so long as it's a legal marriage.

Yes but you have to register your marriage in the US , and chase a whole different paper trail .  

 

You do not have to "register" a foreign marriage in the US, and in fact there is no way of doing so. As others have noted, foreign marriages are fully recognized in the US, and are equivalent to US marriages when it comes to US immigration matters.

 

Also, many people are assuming that the OP will need to file for a K1 in order to marry in the US. From the way he phrased his question, though, I'm assuming that his wife already has a US tourist visa, so they would just be registering their marriage during a brief US holiday (which is perfectly legal). He might get more useful advice if he could clarify that issue.

[impulse]

8 minutes ago, khunjeff said:

I'm assuming that his wife already has a US tourist visa, so they would just be registering their marriage during a brief US holiday (which is perfectly legal)

 

They may be able to marry, or register a Thai marriage.  But she's still on a tourist visa. 

 

[sirineou]

50 minutes ago, khunjeff said:

ou do not have to "register" a foreign marriage in the US, and in fact there is no way of doing so. As others have noted, foreign marriages are fully recognized in the US, and are equivalent to US marriages when it comes to US immigration matters.

Semantics . You can called what you want, your ,marriage still has to authenticated  and recognised  in the US and you listed/ registered as married. 

You still have to prove you were married in the foreign country and that marriage was done legally in such county.   

1. Obtain a Certified Copy of the Marriage Certificate:

   • Make sure you have a certified copy of your marriage certificate from the country where you got married. This document should be issued by the relevant government authority and include an official seal or signature.

2. Translate the Marriage Certificate (if necessary):

   • If the marriage certificate is not in English, you may need to have it translated. Some jurisdictions may require a certified translation to ensure accuracy.

3. Authentication or Apostille:

   • Depending on the country where the marriage took place, you may need to get an authentication or apostille for the marriage certificate. An apostille is a certificate that authenticates the origin of a public document. Check with the embassy or consulate of the country where you got married to determine if this step is necessary.

4. Contact the County Clerk or Vital Records Office:

   • Once you have the authenticated or apostilled marriage certificate and any necessary translations, contact the county clerk or vital records office in the state where you reside in the U.S. They will guide you on the specific requirements for recognizing the foreign marriage.

5. Submit Documentation:

   • Provide the necessary documentation to the county clerk or vital records office. This may include the original marriage certificate, any translations, and the authentication or apostille.

6. Pay Fees (if applicable):

   • Some states may charge a fee for the recognition of a foreign marriage. Be prepared to pay any required fees.

7. Wait for Processing:

   • The processing time for recognizing a foreign marriage can vary, so be patient. Once the process is complete, you should receive confirmation that your foreign marriage is recognized in the U.SOr you can get a KI visa and get married there."

Or you can get a K1 visa and when she gets there go to justice of the peace and get married. Upon arrival she can get a temp  tax number and if so desired can start working .  

[thesetat]

On 12/27/2023 at 2:30 PM, JTXR said:

What are the pros and cons of each? 

 

1. For ease of change with Thai immigration from retirement visa to marriage visa

2. For ease in eventually getting US marriage visa down the road

2. In case of divorce down the road

Also, to do pre-nup, is it wise to do one in the US and also in Thailand?

for #1. You are better off keeping your retirement visa. less hassles with immigration that way. 

for #2 If you really want marriage visa. Perhaps it is easier if done outside of Thailand

for #3. If you marry in the US. You need to go through divorce court in the US as well. This means both of you in court to settle it. If you marry in Thailand, your marriage is registered at the Thai and American Embassy but you would not need to go through a US court system to finalize your divorce. Also, do a prenup in Thailand using a Thai lawyer that never talks to your wife. Have it translated into English for your benefit as well. Make sure everything is clear in the pre-nup so there can be no misunderstanding or possibilities of arguments from the woman or her family. 

I have been married to the same Thai woman now for 11 years. We married in Thailand, Notified the US embassy of the marriage. I originally had a marriage Visa obtained inside Thailand but after I stopped working I changed it to retirement Visa because yearly it is so much easier to get extensions with 90% less paperwork and hassles. Good luck

[thesetat]

17 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Semantics . You can called what you want, your ,marriage still has to authenticated  and recognised  in the US and you listed/ registered as married. 

You still have to prove you were married in the foreign country and that marriage was done legally in such county.   

1. Obtain a Certified Copy of the Marriage Certificate:

   • Make sure you have a certified copy of your marriage certificate from the country where you got married. This document should be issued by the relevant government authority and include an official seal or signature.

2. Translate the Marriage Certificate (if necessary):

   • If the marriage certificate is not in English, you may need to have it translated. Some jurisdictions may require a certified translation to ensure accuracy.

3. Authentication or Apostille:

   • Depending on the country where the marriage took place, you may need to get an authentication or apostille for the marriage certificate. An apostille is a certificate that authenticates the origin of a public document. Check with the embassy or consulate of the country where you got married to determine if this step is necessary.

4. Contact the County Clerk or Vital Records Office:

   • Once you have the authenticated or apostilled marriage certificate and any necessary translations, contact the county clerk or vital records office in the state where you reside in the U.S. They will guide you on the specific requirements for recognizing the foreign marriage.

5. Submit Documentation:

   • Provide the necessary documentation to the county clerk or vital records office. This may include the original marriage certificate, any translations, and the authentication or apostille.

6. Pay Fees (if applicable):

   • Some states may charge a fee for the recognition of a foreign marriage. Be prepared to pay any required fees.

7. Wait for Processing:

   • The processing time for recognizing a foreign marriage can vary, so be patient. Once the process is complete, you should receive confirmation that your foreign marriage is recognized in the U.SOr you can get a KI visa and get married there."

Or you can get a K1 visa and when she gets there go to justice of the peace and get married. Upon arrival she can get a temp  tax number and if so desired can start working .  

You do not need to go through all this BS.. 

[Iamloki]

3 hours ago, swm59nj said:

It all depends the type of marriage visa you are considering. There is CA 1 and K1. The CA 1 takes longer. 
And as for her only getting a menial job in the United States. That depends on certain factors.  Of course if she is not educated and can’t speak English well enough.  She probably will get a menial job.  And even if educated but her English skills are poor. Her job prospects will be restricted. But if she is educated and can communicate.  Her prospects can be good. 
If you have assets I would suggest a prenup.  
I would suggest consulting an Immigration attorney.  Preferably in the United States. 
And keep in mind .  Immigration attorneys in the United States do not do prenups. You would have to consult a Family Law Attorney for that. 
   It’s like some of the expats in Thailand.  They have barebones income and not much savings.  Because they worked at menial low paying jobs in their respective countries.  So they end up with nothing.  But blame their respective countries for their personal shortcomings. Always have to ridicule Western countries every chance they get

    

Technically the K1 is a fiance visa and not a marriage visa. 24 years ago the K1 (K2) was easier, faster and cheaper. I forget the timeline, but if not married with in the specified time, the fiance and dependents (K2) would have to return to their home country. After getting married, they had a temporary permission to stay for one year. After that they got Green Cards. There were two or three meeting at immigration, and a commingling of funds needed to be shown... Her name on a joint account and maybe a debit card (or authorized user on a credit card???) don't really remember.

 

Anyway, it was a pretty painless process - though time consuming sometimes. Of course that 24 years ago... I do not know what it's like now... Knowing the US, they have not made it easier or cheaper. I did all the paperwork, forms etc by myself... I remember thinking at the time, that if I ever had to do it again, I would pay the attorney... again things were much cheaper in 2020. No idea how much an attorney would gouge today...

[sirineou]

21 minutes ago, thesetat said:

You do not need to go through all this BS.. 

What do you do? Tell them you are married in another country , and they say , "Oh Ok"

[LikeItHot]

Women are considered worthless in Thailand.  In the US when they run off with your best friend they are considered victims.  You choose.

[Srikcir]

On 12/27/2023 at 4:25 PM, Sluglord said:

 

States is also entering a hard recession. 

Off topic but US election year propaganda vs truth. 

• Though the economy occasionally sputtered in 2022, it has certainly been resilient — and now, in the last month of 2023, the U.S. is still not currently in a recession, according to a traditional definition.Dec 13, 2566 BE  https://www.nerdwallet.com › article  Are We in a Recession? - NerdWallet
• We don't expect a recession in 2024. We forecast modest GDP growth. We expect global GDP growth will reach 2.8%, down from an expected 3% in 2023 but anticipate acceleration in 2025.2 days ago https://www.bloomberg.com › 2024...   Stock Market 2024 Predictions: Wall Street Expects Rate Cuts, Mild

[thesetat]

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

What do you do? Tell them you are married in another country , and they say , "Oh Ok"

First you need to go to the US Embassy in Thailand and get a letter stating you are not married in the USA. Then have it translated to Thai. Take your woman to an Amphur with 2 witnesses and file your marriage. 100 baht i think is the fee. Then take their document and get it translated and stamped at the Thai consulate. Take that English version to the US Embassy and register your marriage. Keep your documents for immigration if you plan to change Visa to a marriage visa. 

Just a note. The actual marriage is done in the Amphur. Any ceremonies that may be done with the family is unofficial. The document can be signed at the Amphur or by the monks I think. Either way the process is not difficult. And should you choose divorce in the future you do not need to return with her to divorce in courts like all the divorces in the USA. Get a lawyer in Thailand to make and use him to enforce a pre-nup if you get divorced. But as i said before you are best to keep your retirement visa if you have the money. Marriage Visas require a lot to get it and keep it. But that Visa does allow you to work if you want. 

[sirineou]

21 minutes ago, thesetat said:

First you need to go to the US Embassy in Thailand and get a letter stating you are not married in the USA. Then have it translated to Thai. Take your woman to an Amphur with 2 witnesses and file your marriage. 100 baht i think is the fee. Then take their document and get it translated and stamped at the Thai consulate. Take that English version to the US Embassy and register your marriage. Keep your documents for immigration if you plan to change Visa to a marriage visa. 

Just a note. The actual marriage is done in the Amphur. Any ceremonies that may be done with the family is unofficial. The document can be signed at the Amphur or by the monks I think. Either way the process is not difficult. And should you choose divorce in the future you do not need to return with her to divorce in courts like all the divorces in the USA. Get a lawyer in Thailand to make and use him to enforce a pre-nup if you get divorced. But as i said before you are best to keep your retirement visa if you have the money. Marriage Visas require a lot to get it and keep it. But that Visa does allow you to work if you want. 

Fair enough , it sound easier

First I like to thank you for your calm and precise answer, especially since mine was a bit snarky .

but the only difference  between what I posted and this process is  that you don't need the apostille since it is done at the country where the marriage occurred.

What I meant in my original  replay is that there are also other things that occur when married in the US.

I chose the K1 method. 

The wife arrived in the US , we got married at the justice of the peace ASAP to get the process going and applied for a change of status, which got her her temporary Green Card, in two years he had her Green card ,

With a Green Card you can not be out of the country for more than 6 months per year , so we limited our Thai stay to a few months per year , Three years later applier for US citizenship and change of status. 

Married about  15  happy years now and living full time in Thailand, we can travel to the US whenever we want, and most of the world visa except.  Upon reaching retirement age she would be entitled a portion of my social security, and upon my death regardless  of age 70% of my trade union pension. 

While in the US aside from becoming fluent in English she got her cosmetology  licence, so after I pass , many many years from now I hope LOL, if she so wished, she can go back to the US and earn a living.

Which I doubt she will  do, but the option is there.

This is why I said getting married in the US and doing it right is IMO the best option in the long run. 

[Bangel72]

I'm struggling to find any pro's in getting married never mind pro's on location of getting married.

[impulse]

1 hour ago, thesetat said:

First you need to go to the US Embassy in Thailand and get a letter stating you are not married in the USA. Then have it translated to Thai. Take your woman to an Amphur with 2 witnesses and file your marriage. 100 baht i think is the fee. Then take their document and get it translated and stamped at the Thai consulate. Take that English version to the US Embassy and register your marriage. Keep your documents for immigration if you plan to change Visa to a marriage visa. 

Just a note. The actual marriage is done in the Amphur. Any ceremonies that may be done with the family is unofficial. The document can be signed at the Amphur or by the monks I think. Either way the process is not difficult. And should you choose divorce in the future you do not need to return with her to divorce in courts like all the divorces in the USA. Get a lawyer in Thailand to make and use him to enforce a pre-nup if you get divorced. But as i said before you are best to keep your retirement visa if you have the money. Marriage Visas require a lot to get it and keep it. But that Visa does allow you to work if you want. 

 

I'm not seeing where you're addressing her ability to stay and work in the USA.  It's been many years since I worked with young pups that got married to foreign ladies, and my experience in that regard was in China. 

 

I worked with several guys who fell in love on an expat assignment and got married, but her visa situation wasn't a slam dunk (even worse percentage on the K1)  The story was that there are so many sham marriages that the Embassy made it extremely difficult to move the bride to the USA.  Almost universally denied fiancé visas because of the prevalence at the time of sham arrangements, and often the poor guys didn't have a clue.  Keep in mind that was in the early 2000's and in China.

 

Any insight into the current spouse visa situation in Thailand?  Is it just straightforward take the marriage documents to the US Embassy?

 

On an aside, I still remember running into an irate countryman on a flight to China to read the US Embassy the riot act.  Seems his fiancé was denied a visa, in spite of their year long online romance and spending a whole 2 weeks with her in person.  He was incensed, as a taxpayer.  I wished him well, but quietly thought the IO was doing him a solid.

 

Edited January 4 by impulse

[PingRoundTheWorld]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:21 PM, Sluglord said:

 

Seriously? The Thai economy hasn't turned in a meager 4% growth in decades. EU is a basket case, UK and US. You don't read much. Understood. 

Talking about the US - which leads the world's economy. Thailand is a different story but will likely follow suit. Election years are rarely gloom.

[donmuang37]

On 12/27/2023 at 2:55 PM, steve187 said:

more hoops to jump through for a yearly married extension, if married in USA

Not correct.  We married in the USA, but we've been living in Bangkok for 21 years.

The first year we had to have our marriage certificate translated into Thai and then get a Thai marriage certificate.

Since then we've used those same docs every time.  No problems; no hassle. 

[Luuk Chaai]

We married in the  US ..  K1 took 8 months to get .   Soc Sec card and Green recvd almost immediately , after 3 years took her US Citizenship test and passed 

We registered our marriage in Thailand on a vacation just after 2 years . Income taxes were better because of the  US marriage and she is registered on US Soc Sec.   Moved back to TH in  2020   .... plus   working for a US company on line and living in TH got us incredible tax refunfds and all while collecting Soc Sec. to boot

 

[CartagenaWarlock]

On 12/27/2023 at 3:19 AM, timendres said:

In my case, my Thai wife hated the US and blamed me for "dragging" her there.

That happens to people when they suddenly realize that they have to work.  

[timendres]

8 hours ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

That happens to people when they suddenly realize that they have to work.  

 

Actually, my wife went from a full time job and independence in Thailand to being a housewife in the US.

What she hated was the colder weather, the food, the cultural differences, and missing friends and family.

She did love a few things, like the fall colors and the natural beauty of my location.

[JTXR]

OP here.  Sorry, after posting, I've been taken up with a number of things.  Still, I've read and I appreciate all of the comments.  Thanks.

 

I'm now annually extending permission to stay based on original OA Non-Imm visa.  Wife and I had traditional family marriage a number of years ago (sin sod paid, etc), not registered.  She has a ten-year US tourist visa (her second).  Based on what folks have posted, I'm thinking registering the marriage in Thailand is the way to go in order 1) to change my  permission to stay from retirement to marriage (and hopefully not need anymore the annual health insurance expense) and 2) to change her US visa from tourist to marriage.  Is this right?  One major concern is that if we move to the US later (she currently has family obligations that keep her here) she will want to work there.  Will a US "marriage visa" allow her to do that?

Thanks again for your input.

[Elkski]

So much bad info on these 2 pages.  

Look at visa journey website   for good info. 

Did the k1 visa in 2020 right as covid hit and trump stalled visas enerywhere except military ones.  

You dont just change your Thai wives tourist visa into a marriage visa. 

You are married so you would need to go the CR1 route.   I think its the I-130 form. You cant do the K1.   There was a recent fee increase effective 4/1/24.  I think it will be 3k$ now  Some fees raised as much as 77%.   Funding is all fee based. And they are still working from home i think .  

 

CR1 will take some time (year+) to get approved but its all done in Thailand.  Then she gets work permit and green card right away upon entry to US. 

The CR1 visa is valid for a certain time after you get it and you need to move to US in that time.   You can still visit on her tourist visa during this time. 

Different states have different laws regarding divorce.   Prior assets are protected in some states.  

Both the K1 and CR1 Visa's require the US citizen to provide support for this woman for 10 years in case of a divorce.   But it's a  slightly different legal bite.  I forget the details.    We will see how it goes.  I have observed Lots of negative leanings towards foreigners  since I first traveled to Thailand in 2016 and joined this site.  I prefer fresh air on my face and 4 seasons, good drinking water out of the tap, cross walks that cars obey, etc. 

 

The US economy is doing great!!   

My wife didnt like biking and goofing off so we opened a handyman business.  She can make 45$/hr doing yard work for people or I charge customers 55$/ hr  for her help when we are doing sprinkler repair.  She has to rurn down customers because i need her help. Late in the summer at high demand we charge 65 & 125/hr.  

 

Be warned the government rules and forms were written by bureaucrats with their typical IQ.  The software weanies did a terrible job of meshing all the different organizations involved.  The terminology is not intuitive.  

 

My wife loves it in utah from mountain biking to ice fishing.  She isnt a social butterfly.  In fact my biggest complaint that may be a blessing is its hard to get her to go out to a bar or poker night. 

 

I do realize there are risks.  She meeded to learn how to use so many appliances, still dont let her drive although we bought a CX5 and got her learners permit.  But I insist that she does the entire driving school thing and drive time like a teenage kid.  She is ok with that. 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrate/family-immigration/immigrant-visa-for-spouse.html

 

I'm not sure how guys meet the residence and residency if they live in Thailand.   

 

https://www.visajourney.com/forums/forum/110-ir-1-cr-1-spouse-visa-process-amp-procedures/

 

Edited February 6 by Elkski

[Elkski]

Sorry, i just read the OP.  It doesnt look like your wanting to move to US. 

If your staying in Thailand then no need to do anything but register it there for marriage Visa 

[JTXR]

On 2/6/2024 at 7:13 AM, Elkski said:

Sorry, i just read the OP.  It doesnt look like your wanting to move to US. 

If your staying in Thailand then no need to do anything but register it there for marriage Visa 

No, we will stay in Thailand for the foreseeable future but likely move back to the US eventually.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/27/2023 at 8:30 PM, JTXR said:

What are the pros and cons of each? 

 

1. For ease of change with Thai immigration from retirement visa to marriage visa

2. For ease in eventually getting US marriage visa down the road

2. In case of divorce down the road

Also, to do pre-nup, is it wise to do one in the US and also in Thailand?

In case of divorce down the road

 

Isn't that the real thing to be worried about? Given it's only 50% likely that you won't be divorced, if you are feeling that lucky go buy a Lotto ticket.

 

BTW, don't change to a marriage visa, so when you get divorced you don't have to leave LOS.

 

Pre nup? Not completely sure she is the great love of your life for ever and ever then?

Best do one in either country that you have assets worth anything in.

Edited February 11 by thaibeachlovers