Any thing look wrong here?

[STD Warehouse]

When I switch on the main C63 breaker, sometimes no power comes on, sometimes power comes on and all house lights start flickering and sometimes everything just works as it should.

 

Also is that earth wire, which comes from an aircon meant to be going where it goes? See red arrow.

[BenStark]

I'm not an electrician, but I see some thick black wires connected to the neutral of the C63 and another breaker, then seem to go to the neutral bar AND the grounding bar.

 

I doubt that is correct

[NotEinstein]

3 minutes ago, BenStark said:

I'm not an electrician, but I see some thick black wires connected to the neutral of the C63 and another breaker, then seem to go to the neutral bar AND the grounding bar.

 

I doubt that is correct

Actually, in Thailand it is correct, as neutral is 'grid-tied' to ground.

If you buy a consumer box these days the neutral and ground bars are connected. The above has the ground bar connected direct to the neutral input, which is not normal though.

[STD Warehouse]

11 minutes ago, BenStark said:

I'm not an electrician, but I see some thick black wires connected to the neutral of the C63 and another breaker, then seem to go to the neutral bar AND the grounding bar.

 

I doubt that is correct

Do you mean these two cables? The one on the right runs down into another consumer unit. Both the cables of the main C63 breaker go directly outside to the PEA meter

[STD Warehouse]

5 minutes ago, NotEinstein said:

Actually, in Thailand it is correct, as neutral is 'grid-tied' to ground.

If you buy a consumer box these days the neutral and ground bars are connected. The above has the ground bar connected direct to the neutral input, which is not normal though.

Where’s the ground bar?

 

and which one is the neutral input? The black cable going into the main C63 breaker?

[STD Warehouse]

10 minutes ago, NotEinstein said:

Actually, in Thailand it is correct, as neutral is 'grid-tied' to ground.

If you buy a consumer box these days the neutral and ground bars are connected. The above has the ground bar connected direct to the neutral input, which is not normal though.

the ground bar is the top bar, correct?

 

the black cable on the far left runs to the second consumer unit, the black cable next to it, one in from the left, runs outside the house.

[NotEinstein]

1 minute ago, STD Warehouse said:

Where’s the ground bar?

 

and which one is the neutral input? The black cable going into the main C63 breaker?

The ground bar is at the top.

Yes.

I see now that the ground bar is connected to the neutral bar, which is correct.

The labeling behind the C63 main breaker is actually incorrect.

[NotEinstein]

2 minutes ago, STD Warehouse said:

the ground bar is the top bar, correct?

 

the black cable on the far left runs to the second consumer unit, the black cable next to it, one in from the left, runs outside the house.

The one going outside will be to the grounding rod, which again is correct.

[STD Warehouse]

4 minutes ago, NotEinstein said:

The ground bar is at the top.

Yes.

I see now that the ground bar is connected to the neutral bar, which is correct.

The labeling behind the C63 main breaker is actually incorrect.

I do not see where the ground bar is connected to the neutral bar?

[STD Warehouse]

5 minutes ago, NotEinstein said:

The ground bar is at the top.

Yes.

I see now that the ground bar is connected to the neutral bar, which is correct.

The labeling behind the C63 main breaker is actually incorrect.

Thank you for pointing out that label error.

[NotEinstein]

1 minute ago, STD Warehouse said:

I do not see where the ground bar is connected to the neutral bar?

I thought one of the 2 black left-most on the ground bar went to the neutral bar, but you say that isn't the case.

There should be a connection, but as most older houses here don't even have a ground to tie the neutral to, it's not surprising.

[NotEinstein]

Do you have and ac volt meter?

[STD Warehouse]

4 minutes ago, NotEinstein said:

I thought one of the 2 black left-most on the ground bar went to the neutral bar, but you say that isn't the case.

There should be a connection, but as most older houses here don't even have a ground to tie the neutral to, it's not surprising.

Yes, not the case, one goes outside and other goes to 2nd consumer unit.

 

what is the purpose of connecting the ground bar to the neutral bar?

[Crossy]

OK this is from a PEA document. My translations.

Groundwire Mk2 book-Manual.pdf

 

Note the routing of the incoming neutral via the ground bar and then to the main breaker (which "should" be an RCBO).

 

This is the Thai implantation of MEN (Multiple-Earthed Neutral) and is expected if you are going to pass the MEA / PEA inspection for a permanent supply.

 

[NotEinstein]

To stop neutral floating up. I recently upgraded a house, adding a consumer unit and earth. When I connected the earth rod there was a sizeable spark.

Ideally you need to measure between the ground bar and the 2 input cables to know for sure which is live. If you don't have a test meter, a bulb in socket with wires to connect would tell you.

[STD Warehouse]

6 minutes ago, Crossy said:

OK this is from a PEA document. My translations.

Groundwire Mk2 book-Manual.pdf 803.56 kB · 0 downloads

 

Note the routing of the incoming neutral via the ground bar and then to the main breaker (which "should" be an RCBO).

 

This is the Thai implantation of MEN (Multiple-Earthed Neutral) and is expected if you are going to pass the MEA / PEA inspection for a permanent supply.

 

So the incoming neutral should go into the ground bar first before going into the main breaker? Mine does not….

 

and my main breaker should be a RCBO?

[Crossy]

10 minutes ago, STD Warehouse said:

So the incoming neutral should go into the ground bar first before going into the main breaker? Mine does not….

 

and my main breaker should be a RCBO?

 

"Should" is the operative word here.

 

I see you already have a couple of individual RCBOs so adding a main one wouldn't be useful.

 

What you have doesn't look like it's actually hazardous, it's just not to Thai regulations. If you're not having an inspection I would leave well alone.

 

What are your actual concerns??

 

[STD Warehouse]

6 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

"Should" is the operative word here.

 

I see you already have a couple of individual RCBOs so adding a main one wouldn't be useful.

 

What you have doesn't look like it's actually hazardous, it's just not to Thai regulations. If you're not having an inspection I would leave well alone.

 

What are your actual concerns??

 

When I turn on the main breaker one of the follow 3 outcomes occur, randomly

 

1. Lights start flickering all over the house

2. no power even comes on

3. power comes on and ever Is normal 

 

it’s the first one that seems to happen often, this is my concern.

 

edit: however some of the sockets are wired wrong and some of the earths in the sockets are not connected properly, this happened after the so called electrician installed new sockets yesterday. I’m just going round correcting these issues at the moment 

Edited December 29, 2023 by STD Warehouse

[Crossy]

Hmm, any "fizzing" noises from the main breaker?

 

If you push on the main breaker does everything spring to life? (care there are bitey terminals exposed)

 

With the main off check all the terminals for tightness (careful the incoming live is still on).

 

Your place or a rental??

 

EDIT I wonder if your sparks disturbed something, I'd get him back to have a look.

 

[STD Warehouse]

6 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Hmm, any "fizzing" noises from the main breaker?

 

If you push on the main breaker does everything spring to life? (care there are bitey terminals exposed)

 

With the main off check all the terminals for tightness (careful the incoming live is still on).

 

Your place or a rental??

 

EDIT I wonder if your sparks disturbed something, I'd get him back to have a look.

 

doesnt fizz when turn on main breaker.

 

everything springs to life when turn on main breaker.

 

my electrian wired in new sockets yesterday not connecting the earths properly, see photos, which I’m now correcting. Would this cause it?

[STD Warehouse]

11 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Hmm, any "fizzing" noises from the main breaker?

 

If you push on the main breaker does everything spring to life? (care there are bitey terminals exposed)

 

With the main off check all the terminals for tightness (careful the incoming live is still on).

 

Your place or a rental??

 

EDIT I wonder if your sparks disturbed something, I'd get him back to have a look.

 

Not a rental, wife owns it, but we have tenants moving in soon.

[lom]

13 minutes ago, Crossy said:

What you have doesn't look like it's actually hazardous, it's just not to Thai regulations

It is obviously not an installation made by a Thai "electrician",  they wouldn't use Schneider breakers and they wouldn't use blue wire for neutral and brown wire for live which is a European standard. The connection between ground busbar and neutral busbar is done with a jumper wire in Europe, not with the main circuit breaker.

 

I agree that the main circuit breaker is faulty and has to be replaced.

[Crossy]

Sounds like an excellent sparks

 

If what you said earlier (3 options of what happens) is actually the case then the main breaker could be faulty.

 

With the power off you can unplug the main breaker (pull it at the top), on the back are a couple of clip connectors, carefully squeeze these a bit tighter and re-plug. 

 

PLEASE take great care, that incoming terminal is still live!!

 

 

[STD Warehouse]

4 minutes ago, lom said:

It is obviously not an installation made by a Thai "electrician",  they wouldn't use Schneider breakers and they wouldn't use blue wire for neutral and brown wire for live which is a European standard. The connection between ground busbar and neutral busbar is done with a jumper wire in Europe, not with the main circuit breaker.

 

I agree that the main circuit breaker is faulty and has to be replaced.

I should buy a new C63 breaker? Should I buy RCBO or just sane as currently have?

[STD Warehouse]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

Sounds like an excellent sparks

 

If what you said earlier (3 options of what happens) is actually the case then the main breaker could be faulty.

 

With the power off you can unplug the main breaker (pull it at the top), on the back are a couple of clip connectors, carefully squeeze these a bit tighter and re-plug. 

 

PLEASE take great care, that incoming terminal is still live!!

 

 

hmm… with incoming terminal still live I thing I’d prefer not to do this. 
 

if I get it disconnected outside at PEA meter then do what you suggest, it’s the same right?

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, STD Warehouse said:

hmm… with incoming terminal still live I thing I’d prefer not to do this. 
 

if I get it disconnected outside at PEA meter then do what you suggest, it’s the same right?

 

Yeah, that would be fine.

 

No need to use an RCBO as main (you would need to re-wire the incoming then anyway).

 

If you are going to pull the tails at the meter you might as well just replace the C63, they are not terribly expensive.

[STD Warehouse]

5 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Yeah, that would be fine.

 

No need to use an RCBO as main (you would need to re-wire the incoming then anyway).

 

If you are going to pull the tails at the meter you might as well just replace the C63, they are not terribly expensive.

Ok thank you, I will do that, replace the main C63 breaker.