Netanyahu rejects claims accusing Israel of genocide in Gaza

[Jeff the Chef]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

Here is a list of the judges (excluding Israel's and South Africa's representative judges) who will hear the case:

 

Current composition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Court_of_Justice#Current_composition

 

Some points -

 

(a)

5 of the judges are due to be replaced of February 2024. In case deliberations and proceedings are delayed/stalled for some reason, no idea how this might effect things. Similarly, as the case might take years to finalize it also means a turnover in judges hearing it anyway.

 

(b)

As is usual with UN and international bodies, the membership includes judges from countries which are either not paragons of human rights, involved in issues related to the court's function and/or are hostile to one of the parties appearing before the court. One can prattle about 'impartiality', but I'm not sure that's a thing considering some of the countries involved. Assuming that a strict separation will be applied between countries political stance on this matters and judges' rulings, that's a choice.

 

(c)

With regard to (b), this creates some interesting issues for countries/judges involved. Thinking about past rulings in cases vs. Russia, Myanmar and how certain countries/judges ruled, and how the legal reasoning offered in those cases might run counter to their current political agenda/affiliation.

 

 

 

Trying to do a hit job on the Judges through Wiki won't wash with me when anybody can go to the International Court of Justice home page for any information needed straight from the horses mouth, so to speak, your points mean nothing unless you're only trying to muddy the waters, for once be honest.

 

https://www.icj-cij.org/index.php/home

[Morch]

14 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Trying to do a hit job on the Judges through Wiki won't wash with me when anybody can go to the International Court of Justice home page for any information needed straight from the horses mouth, so to speak, your points mean nothing unless you're only trying to muddy the waters, for once be honest.

 

https://www.icj-cij.org/index.php/home

 

More of your usual baseless accusations. What 'hit job'? And who cares what washes 'with you'? What information pertaining to my post appears in the ICJ's home page? How are my points 'meaningless'? Or how do they 'muddy the waters'?

 

You're just tossing accusations and allegations about, without having nothing to back them up with. You're not even making much sense, but that's not unusual.

 

As for being honest - I'm not the one posting antisemitic comments, then claiming no such sentiment.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

 

 

None of these Jews needed a t-shirt @Nick Carter icp

 

   You keep posting photos of Jews holding up signs :)

May as well have a video as well 

 

 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

2 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

FYI, might be a bit busy.

 

Public sittings of the Court can be followed live by clicking on the media player on the website homepage, or here. The webstream starts a few minutes before the sitting is scheduled to begin.

The hearings and sittings of the Court are also announced in a dedicated section of the Journal of the United Nations.

Thursday 11 January 2024 to Friday 12 January 2024

Proceedings instituted by South Africa against the State of Israel on 29 December 2023 - Request for the indication of provisional measures - Public hearings from Thursday 11 to Friday 12 January 2024

• Thursday 11 January 2024: 10 a.m.-12 noon
• Friday 12 January 2024: 10 a.m.-12 noon

https://www.icj-cij.org/calendar

 

 

  What powers do the ICJ have ?

What punishment can they give out ?

[Yellowtail]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  What powers do the ICJ have ?

What punishment can they give out ?

They might condemn Israel strongly, maybe even really strongly. If that doesn't work, than it'll be really, really strongly! 

[Jeff the Chef]

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  What powers do the ICJ have ?

What punishment can they give out ?

 

 Looking forward to finding out, how about you?

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

 Looking forward to finding out, how about you?

 

   Haven't taken much interest really .

As you have taken so much interest in the case, I would have thought that you would have known what the outcome could be, in regards to any punishment 

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

 Looking forward to finding out, how about you?

Just check the same website that lists the judges. The court has no power to do anything but "...to settle, in accordance with international law, legal disputes submitted to it by States and to give advisory opinions on legal questions referred to it by authorized United Nations organs and specialized agencies."

 

The Court | INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE (icj-cij.org)

[Rimmer]

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[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Just check the same website that lists the judges. The court has no power to do anything but "...to settle, in accordance with international law, legal disputes submitted to it by States and to give advisory opinions on legal questions referred to it by authorized United Nations organs and specialized agencies."

 

The Court | INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE (icj-cij.org)

 

   Whilst hostages are still being held, I cannot see the ICJ ruling against Israel , I would hope that the ICJ would view the war crime of taking hostages quite unfavourable and commend Israel for trying to stop the on-going war crime of hostage taking 

[Jeff the Chef]

59 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

More of your usual baseless accusations. What 'hit job'? And who cares what washes 'with you'? What information pertaining to my post appears in the ICJ's home page? How are my points 'meaningless'? Or how do they 'muddy the waters'?

 

You're just tossing accusations and allegations about, without having nothing to back them up with. You're not even making much sense, but that's not unusual.

 

As for being honest - I'm not the one posting antisemitic comments, then claiming no such sentiment.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, heard it all before, let us see what happens in the coming days.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, heard it all before, let us see what happens in the coming days.

 

This had nothing to do with 'what happens in the coming days'. This was about you blaming me for made up stuff.

Well, maybe there are some parallels, after all.

[Morch]

For those belittling the ICJ - no, it does not have actual powers to enforce anything. But if it was that of non-event, why would Israel even bother with attending the legal proceedings, fielding a defense and so on?

 

Russia, China, the USA - they can shrug off such rulings (up to a point). Countries which are actual (as opposed to anti-Israel-brigade's fantasies) pariahs, or have some specific strong strategic clout, do so as well. Israel would find it much harder to ignore such rulings, at least not without paying a diplomatic cost. It may not be quite as high as the aforementioned brigade imagines, but probably not negligible as well.

 

Down the line, ICJ rulings can be used as basis for further diplomatic and legal measures. Call it a legal infrastructure, if it helps.

 

I think the Israeli government (as in the elements which aren't fanatic and have more than a couple of brain cells to rub together) are less dismissive of this than some of you guys. 

[Jeff the Chef]

14 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

This had nothing to do with 'what happens in the coming days'. This was about you blaming me for made up stuff.

Well, maybe there are some parallels, after all.

 

So Wiki that you quoted is better than the ICJ website I quoted, got it.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

So Wiki that you quoted is better than the ICJ website I quoted, got it.

 

That would be another one of your pointless deflections.

The Wiki link is not 'better' - it's just a list of the judges, specifying their end of term and nationality.

 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

 Looking forward to finding out, how about you?

 

   Just wondered , is it you putting numerous confused sights after my posts ?

[Yellowtail]

10 minutes ago, Morch said:

For those belittling the ICJ - no, it does not have actual powers to enforce anything. But if it was that of non-event, why would Israel even bother with attending the legal proceedings, fielding a defense and so on?

 

Russia, China, the USA - they can shrug off such rulings (up to a point). Countries which are actual (as opposed to anti-Israel-brigade's fantasies) pariahs, or have some specific strong strategic clout, do so as well. Israel would find it much harder to ignore such rulings, at least not without paying a diplomatic cost. It may not be quite as high as the aforementioned brigade imagines, but probably not negligible as well.

 

Down the line, ICJ rulings can be used as basis for further diplomatic and legal measures. Call it a legal infrastructure, if it helps.

 

I think the Israeli government (as in the elements which aren't fanatic and have more than a couple of brain cells to rub together) are less dismissive of this than some of you guys. 

The PR for them is worse if they don't show. If they show up and "lose", they are no worse off PR wise than they are now. If they "win", they are a little better off PR wise than they are now. 

 

Nothing to lose and a little to gain. 

[Bkk Brian]

9 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

So Wiki that you quoted is better than the ICJ website I quoted, got it.

Always trust a UN org especially the ICJ. Right? 

 

Lets just skip over the UN in Gaza, just published:

 

Unbelievable! UN Watch's exposure of a Telegram group of 3000 UNRWA teachers in Gaza who celebrated the October 7th massacre and the shocking acts of murder, rape, and atrocities. Yes, the same UN organization that’s supposed to promote the Palestinians and take care of their education but in practice is an integral part of Palestinian terrorism! The same UN condemns Israel time and time again and complains about lack of food.

 

 

Group of 3,000 UNRWA teachers celebrates Hamas massacre and rape

A Telegram group of 3,000 UNRWA teachers in Gaza is replete with posts celebrating the Hamas massacre of October 7th minutes after it began, praising the murderers and rapists as “heroes,” glorifying the “education” the terrorists received, gleefully sharing photos of dead or captured Israelis and urging the execution of hostages.

“This is the motherlode of UNRWA teachers’ incitement to Jihadi terrorism,” said Hillel Neuer, executive director of UN Watch, the Geneva-based non-governmental organization that monitors the world body.

The Telegram chat group is meant to support UNRWA teachers, and contains dozens of files with UNRWA staff names, ID numbers, schedules and curriculum materials.

https://unwatch.org/group-of-3000-unrwa-teachers-celebrates-hamas-massacre-and-rape/

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The PR for them is worse if they don't show. If they show up and "lose", they are no worse off PR wise than they are now. If they "win", they are a little better off PR wise than they are now. 

 

Nothing to lose and a little to gain. 

 

That's your opinion. I have no idea what it relies on. Not worse off? That was pretty much standard Israeli policy for years (ignoring proceedings). There would have to be a good reason for this change.

 

As for 'nothing to lose', that is, again, a very shallow way of seeing things. Diplomatically, and legally, this is not quite a nothing-burger as some wish it to be.

 

Just to give you an idea of how seriously this seems to be taken, check out who was appointed as 'Israel's' judge. For over a year now, Barak was cast as the founding father of all that's (supposedly) wrong with Israel's legal system - as part of the judicial 'reform' (ie taking control of) by Israel's right wing. The level of the personal campaign against the man was appalling. Netanyahu is facing much issues with this among coalitions member and supporters - who neither appreciate nor understand this about face.

[Bkk Brian]

BREAKING: Ahead of Israel’s arguments in tomorrow’s Hague Tribunal hearing, Shin Bet chief Ronen Bar recommended in closed hearings that they shame the UN before the world by revealing proof of UNRWA staff involvement in the October 7 Hamas massacre.

 

Watchdog finds UNRWA workers praised Hamas massacres in internal Telegram channel

An investigation by the UN Watch monitor group found that United Nations workers in Gaza used an internal Telegram channel, which was meant to facilitate their work, to praise the Hamas massacres on October 7.

The probe, released Wednesday, found that many of the workers at the United Nations Relief Works Agency — the UN body for Palestinian refugees — explicitly praised the onslaught, in which some 3,000 terrorists crossed into Israel, killing some 1,200 people and taking 240 hostages, most of them civilians.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/watchdog-finds-unrwa-workers-praised-hamas-massacres-in-internal-telegram-channel/

[placeholder]

 

Rising hunger in Gaza ‘turning children into skeletons’
With malnutrition rocketing across the enclave, experts fear an entire generation could be at risk of stunting

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/children-skeletons-rising-hunger-gaza-famine/

[Bkk Brian]

A word on the judges also in this short clip

 

'Rather than trying to kill civilians, we made a tremendous effort to prevent it, as opposed to Hamas whose objective was to kill civilians'

Prof. Robbie Sabel of Hebrew University breaks down the upcoming ICJ case claiming Israel is committing genocide in #Gaza

 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

A word on the judges also in this short clip

 

'Rather than trying to kill civilians, we made a tremendous effort to prevent it, as opposed to Hamas whose objective was to kill civilians'

Prof. Robbie Sabel of Hebrew University breaks down the upcoming ICJ case claiming Israel is committing genocide in #Gaza

 

Yeah, 2,000 pound bombs dropped on apartment buildings is a surgical strike.

[Bkk Brian]

US Secretary Blinken:

"The charge of genocide [against Israel] is meritless.

It’s particularly galling, given that those who are attacking Israel – Hamas, Hizballah, the Houthis, as well as their supporter, Iran – continue to openly call for the annihilation of Israel and the mass murder of Jews."

https://twitter.com/Ostrov_A/status/1745024603599085765

 

[Bkk Brian]

9 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Yeah, 2,000 pound bombs dropped on apartment buildings is a surgical strike.

ok

[ozimoron]

US condemns far-right Israeli ministers’ call for Palestinians to ‘emigrate’ from Gaza+

 

The United States on Tuesday denounced controversial comments by two far-right Israeli ministers who said Palestinians should be encouraged to emigrate from Gaza and called for Jewish settlers to return to the besieged territory.

 

https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20240103-us-condemns-far-right-israeli-ministers-call-for-palestinians-to-emigrate-from-gaza

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

US Secretary Blinken:

"The charge of genocide [against Israel] is meritless.

It’s particularly galling, given that those who are attacking Israel – Hamas, Hizballah, the Houthis, as well as their supporter, Iran – continue to openly call for the annihilation of Israel and the mass murder of Jews."

 

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken met Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in the Israeli-occupied West Bank on Wednesday and told him that the US backs "tangible steps" for a Palestinian state.

 

https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20240110-🔴-live-blinken-urges-israel-to-engage-with-region-on-postwar-plans

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken met Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in the Israeli-occupied West Bank on Wednesday and told him that the US backs "tangible steps" for a Palestinian state.

 

https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20240110-🔴-live-blinken-urges-israel-to-engage-with-region-on-postwar-plans

Yes I know but this is topic is about the ICJ case

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yes I know but this is topic is about the ICJ case

How Experts Believe Starvation Is Being Utilized in Gaza

"Murdoch also says circumstantial evidence is sufficient to prove starvation as a war crime—if information exists that if a course of conduct is continued, it will lead to civilians starving, then those in charge can be held responsible. 

Starvation as a war crime has never been prosecuted, she says, but her organization has produced a report arguing it is happening in South Sudan and she wants her group to be allowed to conduct an independent investigation in Gaza."

 https://time.com/6552740/gaza-israel-starvation-hunger/

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

How Experts Believe Starvation Is Being Utilized in Gaza

"Murdoch also says circumstantial evidence is sufficient to prove starvation as a war crime—if information exists that if a course of conduct is continued, it will lead to civilians starving, then those in charge can be held responsible. 

Starvation as a war crime has never been prosecuted, she says, but her organization has produced a report arguing it is happening in South Sudan and she wants her group to be allowed to conduct an independent investigation in Gaza."

 https://time.com/6552740/gaza-israel-starvation-hunger/

They have yet to investigate that. Hardly have time to submit it tomorrow.