New tax era in Thailand begins as Revenue now shares data with 138 countries within the OECD

[Dan O]

10 hours ago, VBF said:

Also to @Dan O

Fair enough comments - I actually didn't consider your points.

 

So rather than "can't happen",  IF (repeat IF) the Government instructed the banks to withhold x% from every foreign deposit,  the banks could, technically, do it.

 

Having said that, the following uproar would be a total s**tstorm, but when did people's objections and / or common sense stop the authorities from imposing a ridiculous rule without first thinking it through? 

And, then, usually,  backtracking on it! 🙄

 

I do agree with you both, it's unlikely though. 

I am not sure that the govt could legally just say to do that due to a variety of issues. With the number and variety of DTA's currently in place and all the exclusions and exemptions involved tge differe among them legally that creates  huge complications  to try to administer, but hey TIT so anything could be said but enforcement would be difficult. Then the banking industry would need to rewrite there guidelines of when and how to do it on a national level and then coordinate with the various internation banks and all the countries they interact with.

 

Its a mess any way you look at it and in typical Thai fashion make a declaration before you develop the strategic mechanism to handle the issue and deal with the complications you've just created

[paddypower]

17 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Seriously, the potential exists to almost double GDP, just by collecting taxes from the 50+ that are working cash in hand and the rest of the self employed who are understating their income.

I wonder how much revenues are lost, due to the sweetheart deals where Chinese car imports are incredibly lightly taxed for import duty? coincidentally, you will find several of the 5 families having a financial interest in this business. 

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, paddypower said:

I wonder how much revenues are lost, due to the sweetheart deals where Chinese car imports are incredibly lightly taxed for import duty? coincidentally, you will find several of the 5 families having a financial interest in this business. 

You're talking about Foreign Direct Investments and BOI incentives etc, this is a thread about Personal Import Tax

[KannikaP]

7 hours ago, vangrop said:

i don't believe you because you are obviously not good in maths. 40k a month is 480 a year

I did do a later post correcting my mistake. Sorry.

[paddypower]

10 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

You're talking about Foreign Direct Investments and BOI incentives etc, this is a thread about Personal Import Tax

you're correct. I went off-topic. however, the underlying reason behind this proposed personal tax regime is that the Govt wants more revenues. the amount that they are going to collect is minuscule. For 90% of us expats, this is a non-issue, with careful tax planning :)

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

I did do a later post correcting my mistake. Sorry.

Don't feel bad, there's a lot to read and take in, I'm also making errors simply because of the volume of questions and information that needs to be put out there.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, paddypower said:

you're correct. I went off-topic. however, the underlying reason behind this proposed personal tax regime is that the Govt wants more revenues. the amount that they are going to collect is minuscule. For 90% of us expats, this is a non-issue, with careful tax planning :)

This move is just one part of widening the tax net which is very small and desperately needs increasing with only 11% of the workforce filing tax returns......it all helps.

[paddypower]

7 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

I did do a later post correcting my mistake. Sorry.

with a 'life partner' that good looking, I'd forgive you for getting distracted :)

[paddypower]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

This move is just one part of widening the tax net which is very small and desperately needs increasing with only 11% of the workforce filing tax returns......it all helps.

yep, although they were the bane of my professional life (and the raison d'etre for it)   tax auditors represent the greatest source of raising tax revenues substantially. but there is just no will to act intelligently,is there. ?

[fondue zoo]

One family member works for SCB admin, they don't even know how this will be implemented, and how they are going to get compensated for the extra time/people this will take for them to monitor. They have received notifications/bulletins but nothing with any detail they need to begin setup. I suppose they have a year to get it into place?

 

She said it is going to be a problem if there are mistakes that need to be reversed, you will be waiting a love you long time. According to her many internal processes the banks have are not fully automated to handle extra checks  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

_{*I'm not a money guy but this sounds real messy, at least at the beginning.}

[MartinL]

14 hours ago, Shoeless Joe said:

To satisfy my own curiosity I visited my local immigration and my local RD offices today in Nan and asked the following questions.

<snip>

2) I asked the RD if I needed to pay income tax on the pension money I transferred to Thailand from the UK. It was explained thus: The RD is only interested in taxing income from money earnt in Thailand OR  money brought into Thailand on which tax has not already been paid ........

<snip>

 

I asked the same question of my local RD office maybe 12 years ago and got pretty much the same answer. I've abided by their wisdom ever since.

 

 

[KannikaP]

15 minutes ago, paddypower said:

with a 'life partner' that good looking, I'd forgive you for getting distracted :)

Life partner?

[lordgrinz]

6 minutes ago, paddypower said:

yep, although they were the bane of my professional life (and the raison d'etre for it)   tax auditors represent the greatest source of raising tax revenues substantially. but there is just no will to act intelligently,is there. ?

 

The one thing I hate more than anything else is preparing taxes, I would rather die then even deal with it. I had to tell my US tax preparer "whatever you do, make sure I never have to deal with an IRS agent at my door", basically I told her not to go after every penny by using any questionable schemes. So not happy about being forced to deal with the Thai system now, sick of it all.

[paddypower]

7 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Life partner?

your profile pic. lighten up :)

[paddypower]

27 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

This move is just one part of widening the tax net which is very small and desperately needs increasing with only 11% of the workforce filing tax returns......it all helps.

agreed. A drop in the bucket and as described elsewhere many times; a daft, poorly thought out idea which will just P/off some retirees here who don't look at the big picture (how fortunate we are to live here) and, most likely, deter some prospective retirees from moving here. 

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, Dan O said:

I am not sure that the govt could legally just say to do that due to a variety of issues. With the number and variety of DTA's currently in place and all the exclusions and exemptions involved tge differe among them legally that creates  huge complications  to try to administer, but hey TIT so anything could be said but enforcement would be difficult. Then the banking industry would need to rewrite there guidelines of when and how to do it on a national level and then coordinate with the various internation banks and all the countries they interact with.

 

Its a mess any way you look at it and in typical Thai fashion make a declaration before you develop the strategic mechanism to handle the issue and deal with the complications you've just created

well for sure, the building industry would reap huge profits maybe on all the warehouses to store all the paperwork copies that the Thai govt likes if this comes to pass.  My opinion on what I have to provide for something so simple and is already in a computer data base!

 

[Highlandman]

21 hours ago, Presnock said:

we  the resident here, I think they will eventually instruct us that we must have a Tax Number, and that to extend a stay in the country, we have to provide that tax number and money remitted into Thailand by a copy of one's bank book (s) and that local banks will need to provide names of resident aliens and then, we will need to also provide our income and any taxes paid to our home country.  For me is is easy, just need to print out an additional page or two when I do my 1-year long stay extension.  I have plenty of documentation from my US payers of my govt pension and the amount of taxes withheld by the government.  I used to have to provide these same documents to immigration along with my Embassy letter which disappeared a few years ago.

Yeah then more than half of all expats will flee. No one's going to put up with that for a visa extension! What's next, immigration requiring an EKG of all retirees, proof you've been wearing a mask every day or no extension? 

[Highlandman]

1 hour ago, lordgrinz said:

 

The one thing I hate more than anything else is preparing taxes, I would rather die then even deal with it. I had to tell my US tax preparer "whatever you do, make sure I never have to deal with an IRS agent at my door", basically I told her not to go after every penny by using any questionable schemes. So not happy about being forced to deal with the Thai system now, sick of it all.

I'm not going to do anything, I'm not filing anything unless forced to..numerous articles I've read on the subject are quite clear - don't do anything unless advised to, which is not something we'll even know about for months to come. Filing of tax paperwork may be voluntary for years to come, according to the opinion of several experts. 

 

If it came to this, immigration would find itself dealing with daily criticism if it ended up going down this path as I don't know of any other countries that do this, but if tax paperwork became part of the immigration extension apparatus (probably only for non-immigrant visas) then that would certainly cause many, many expats to voluntarily depart. So many in fact that the government would do one of its typical "u-turns" to save face. However, even if that did happen, it does sound like it would be several years away at the earliest.

 

It's worrying but not something to freak out over, at least not until there is concrete information available, not speculation or various interpretations that may not fit with reality.

 

I'm actually more worried there might be another Covid like "pandemic" and associated restrictions between now and 2030. If it happens, that will impact our lives way more. I would like to think that stuff is behind us now but something tells me the lessons of 2020-2022 have not been learned.

[Highlandman]

2 hours ago, paddypower said:

I wonder how much revenues are lost, due to the sweetheart deals where Chinese car imports are incredibly lightly taxed for import duty? coincidentally, you will find several of the 5 families having a financial interest in this business. 

 

Chinese car imports?? I think you're confused. The Chinese have set up several factories on Thailand's eastern seaboard producing GW (Great Wall), BYD and starting soon, Chery vehicles. There's at least 3, possibly 4 big Chinese EV/hybrid brands that have been churning out cars here or are about to, since around 2021.

 

Imports of cars made in China to Thailand are miniscule, if they even exist (ditto in the case of Thai built cars going the other way). That's why the Chinese took the incentives and invested in Thailand.

 

Thais wishing to purchase luxury cars not sold via conventional dealerships or brands typically turn to importers who bring in mainly European brands and such makes as Lexus, not Chinese brands. Strangely, even the Toyota Landcruiser is imported via import brokers and sold through them rather than by Toyota who would sell them through their showrooms. I have no idea why, probably just another short-sighted decision Toyota Thailand has made.

 

In any case, isn't there an FTA between Thailand and China now? Or at least they were negotiating one.

Edited January 9 by Highlandman

[Shoeless Joe]

5 hours ago, quake said:

 

Got a couple of questions for you.

I'm not doubting anything you have said in your post.

But can you tell me, in what language your conversation with the RD was in ?

and who was fluent in what language, or was someone else acting as an interpreter

if so who. ?

Just asking , as many things can get lost  or flipped around in translation.

I'm sure the RD offices around Thailand are all professionals, but not sure all staff will be fluent in a English Maybe they are, I don't know. 

 

Also, what proof of tax paid in the uk, did the RD want to see, in regards to this.

Thanks Quake.

 

Ps well done for going in and asking. 

 

 

<SIGH>

1) Why would you doubt what I said?

2) What language did we converse in? Well you'll be pleased to know it was one which we ALL understood.

3) The staff were/are very professional. I too am unsure whether or not all or any of the RD staff are fluent in any language.

4) What proof  of tax paid did the RD want? In this conversation? None.

 

I really do think it would benefit you greatly if you tootled off to your local RD and asked your questions of them.

[KannikaP]

On 1/8/2024 at 8:13 AM, koolkarl said:

As written before, anyone residing in Thailand for more than 180 days a year will have to file a Thai tax return reporting their world income,

all thanks to Obama.

Mr Obama did not affect me in any way. UK citizen.

[Highlandman]

16 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

 

During my 20 years in Thailand, I never paid tax to the Thai Govt. As a UK citizen, I was taxed at source (UK) on the amount exceeding the tax allowance on my 3 pensions. Glad I moved to Cambodia almost 4 years ago and I still pay tax at source in the UK - no dual taxation.

 

Well you should change your name to Cambodia Bill as you're clearly not Burma Bill. You were Thailand Bill before.

[Highlandman]

5 hours ago, Presnock said:

Well the government cannot change the royal decree but of course royally it could be changed but probably will not happen in my opinion

 

According to Benjamin Hart from Integrity Legal, he's not sure the BOI has any authority to declare that LTR visa holders are exempt from taxes for remitting funds from abroad.

 

I've not heard of there being a "RD" covering this visa class either, but then I'm not an expert.

 

I think like all things, it will become clearer in the months and years to come.

[Mike Lister]

7 minutes ago, Highlandman said:

 

According to Benjamin Hart from Integrity Legal, he's not sure the BOI has any authority to declare that LTR visa holders are exempt from taxes for remitting funds from abroad.

 

I've not heard of there being a "RD" covering this visa class either, but then I'm not an expert.

 

I think like all things, it will become clearer in the months and years to come.

It seems the LTV received Royal Ascent and since the BOI is a functional part of the BOT, which reports to the highest authority in the land, I suspect they do have the  authority to grant the exemption.

[Highlandman]

2 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

It seems the LTV received Royal Ascent and since the BOI is a functional part of the BOT, which reports to the highest authority in the land, I suspect they do have the  authority to grant the exemption.

 

Ok I didn't know that but let's see whether this holds or not.

 

Benjamin Hart seems very well informed on tax matters and should know what he's talking about so if what you're saying is true, then it seems odd that it would have escaped his attention like that.

 

He did a video on this some weeks back where he went on a rant about how he doesn't believe the BOI can make a declaration like they did, but on the other hand, so much about this whole tax issue has been sensationalized that its best to wait until we have all the facts. At this stage there's a lot of different opinions and interpretations floating around (of the tax loophole being closed in general).

[Expat68]

On 1/8/2024 at 8:09 AM, KannikaP said:

From my taxman, for an over 65 year old....first 190,000 is free, plus a 60k allowance, so there's 250k. After that 0 - 150k is at 0%, 150 - 300k is at 5%, 300 - 500k is at 10%, and so on.

So in my case I can have 400k before I pay any tax, then I have 80k @ 5% = 4000 baht.  

Could be wrong but if you have health insurance, you can also claim for that. My company has just sent the tax certificate to the tax office 

[KannikaP]

1 minute ago, Expat68 said:

Could be wrong but if you have health insurance, you can also claim for that. My company has just sent the tax certificate to the tax office 

Plus 60k for your Mrs if you are married and she doesn't claim it herself.

[Mike Lister]

7 minutes ago, Expat68 said:

Could be wrong but if you have health insurance, you can also claim for that. My company has just sent the tax certificate to the tax office 

Yes, maximum deduction of 25k.

[quake]

1 hour ago, Shoeless Joe said:

<SIGH>

1) Why would you doubt what I said?

2) What language did we converse in? Well you'll be pleased to know it was one which we ALL understood.

3) The staff were/are very professional. I too am unsure whether or not all or any of the RD staff are fluent in any language.

4) What proof  of tax paid did the RD want? In this conversation? None.

 

I really do think it would benefit you greatly if you tootled off to your local RD and asked your questions of them.

 

Oh dear.

Bye. 

 

 

 

Edited January 9 by quake

[brianthainess]

On 1/8/2024 at 6:35 AM, hotchilli said:

My UK pension starts in 2025, start taxing that I'll be gone.

That is below the Tax threshold most of this tax BS is fear mongering unless you are earning more.