New tax era in Thailand begins as Revenue now shares data with 138 countries within the OECD

[Adumbration]

I could not give a *uck about taxation.  It is the paperwork and time wasted record keeping that will see me leave Thailand.

 

Also after living here for two decades I have yet to find a single Thai accountant that is trustwortny and competent.

 

I will see how this unfolds but I will be out the door if it means more paperwork to do my retirement extension.

[n00dle]

On 1/8/2024 at 8:18 AM, smedly said:

if I have to do a border run every 180 days

that means nothing, you would have to do a border run after 179 days that lasted the rest of the year.

[ChaiyaTH]

9 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

I could not give a *uck about taxation.  It is the paperwork and time wasted record keeping that will see me leave Thailand.

 

Also after living here for two decades I have yet to find a single Thai accountant that is trustwortny and competent.

 

I will see how this unfolds but I will be out the door if it means more paperwork to do my retirement extension.

Yeah too funny, they wanna see money proof for a visa to see my own son, or give me 3 month visa's each time, and at the same time they want to tax me for a higher percentage, theoretically, then I would even pay back home (to then also get all the benefits from it again). Wonder how this is going to evolve aside from tourism and economy in general.

[Jenkins9039]

Before Jan 1st.

We'd spend anywhere from 400,000-700,000 THB a month, and then additional 120,000 THB (wife) a month.

 

Since Jan 1st we've moved ALL our insurances overseas (parent companies), we've moved ALL our additional costs where possible (boating costs etc) to their parent companies, all purchasing we do overseas (Amazon etc), basically anything that can be dealt with via a parent/sister company has been routed overseas to those companies, kids education, medical, etc all parent companies overseas.

I'd hazard a guess the Gov are loosing roughly 120,000 THB minimum a month from just my credit card VAT payments.

 

That's without all the other costs, even staff are now paid from overseas, we lost a couple, as they didn't want that, they wanted to continue to be paid in cash from my wife (which we paid tax -reported which was 'savings' - but just so we had no issues...).

 

I looked at my credit card the other day, 3,000 THB spent, bank 10,000 THB.

 

[Furioso]

Can I fly to Hawaii, get 15,000 USD out of my bank and carry the cash back here to Thailand? 

[Shoeless Joe]

32 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

I could not give a *uck about taxation.  It is the paperwork and time wasted record keeping that will see me leave Thailand.

 

Also after living here for two decades I have yet to find a single Thai accountant that is trustwortny and competent.

 

I will see how this unfolds but I will be out the door if it means more paperwork to do my retirement extension.

Hi. 

Following visits to both my local immigration and RD offices yesterday, I was reassured by both that no additional documentation is required for a visa extension. 

Joe

 

[Jenkins9039]

23 minutes ago, Furioso said:

Can I fly to Hawaii, get 15,000 USD out of my bank and carry the cash back here to Thailand? 

You can KL (10,000$).

[sirineou]

Just now, Shoeless Joe said:

Hi. 

Following visits to both my local immigration and RD offices yesterday, I was reassured by both that no additional documentation is required for a visa extension. 

Joe

 

Good to know, I am doing my extension next week and I was wondering the same. 

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

23 minutes ago, Furioso said:

Can I fly to Hawaii, get 15,000 USD out of my bank and carry the cash back here to Thailand? 

Technically you have to declare any amount over 10,000USD, and yes it is 'assesable income' if you are a Thai tax resident in the year you brought that money into Thailand.  Can you get away with it - Yes. Can you get caught - Yes. Is it worth it - up to you. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

8 minutes ago, Shoeless Joe said:

Hi. 

Following visits to both my local immigration and RD offices yesterday, I was reassured by both that no additional documentation is required for a visa extension. 

Joe

 

Good to know - thanks - get it done ASAP.

The question is will that still be the same later this year/next year, when this is fully implemented? 

[sadeghsep]

hi , I'm an Iranian, I'm not working in any type and have no income since my daughter born we agreed that me to be a househusband and take care of my kid also many years ago i gave all my saving to my wife and almost more than 5 years with no transfer , just each year my wife put the money in my account and we extend my visa , should i file something as well ? 

[Dan O]

2 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Mate - you have serious issues and need help. That response of mine you quoted was to Mike not yourself. Get a grip - relax - and then move along yourself mate.  

 

No wonder so many of us avoid other Expats in the streets. We saw a bloke today and he looked very weird and strange - and it is clear you are the same.  

Another keyboard warrior that hides behind your screen.  Id probably avoid you too.. That was a software glitch that crosses the two links.  Move on with your crap 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

24 minutes ago, Dan O said:

Another keyboard warrior that hides behind your screen.  Id probably avoid you too.. That was a software glitch that crosses the two links.  Move on with your crap 

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

27 minutes ago, sadeghsep said:

hi , I'm an Iranian, I'm not working in any type and have no income since my daughter born we agreed that me to be a househusband and take care of my kid also many years ago i gave all my saving to my wife and almost more than 5 years with no transfer , just each year my wife put the money in my account and we extend my visa , should i file something as well ? 

Income tax is only payable on money you bring into Thailand after 1 Jan 2024 - if it is money you earned after 1 Jan 2024.

 

Bring no money into Thailand = No Income Taxes. 

[Kinnock]

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Income tax is only payable on money you bring into Thailand after 1 Jan 2024 - if it is money you earned after 1 Jan 2024.

 

Bring no money into Thailand = No Income Taxes. 

That sounds like you can still bring money into Thailand after 1st Jan 24 without a tax liability if you earned that money prior to 1st Jan 24?

 

So if you had savings in a home country bank last year, you could claim that the money was earned prior to the new tax law?

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

That sounds like you can still bring money into Thailand after 1st Jan 24 without a tax liability if you earned that money prior to 1st Jan 24?

 

So if you had savings in a home country bank last year, you could claim that the money was earned prior to the new tax law?

Yes, but be prepared to prove it using a statement dated 1 January 2024 showing the funds were actually there. 

[jacob29]

On 1/8/2024 at 11:21 AM, lordgrinz said:

 

What it will do, is make a good portion of expats leave to live elsewhere. 

 

To where though? Majority of places will still tax you more (tax regardless of remittance). I don't buy that people are by and large living in Thailand purely for the tax perks. The regional exceptions seem to be Philippines and Malaysia, and I think Malaysia is essential adopting the same model as Thailand.

 

On 1/8/2024 at 1:19 PM, roo860 said:

I have a daughter here, nothing to stop me transferring monies from my own country to her then she gives me cash, no-one is any the wiser? 

If you transfer it to her account abroad, then she remits it into Thailand, yes nobody would be the wiser. Otherwise it remains a remittance, same as if I made a purchase and did a wire transfer straight into the sellers Thai account, and presumably can be tracked - open question as to level of enforcement in practice.

[scorecard]

On 1/8/2024 at 6:38 AM, BE88 said:

Now it is clear that all foreign residents in Thailand will have to pay taxes for those who reside beyond 180 days

 

But seems it's not yet 100% clear what types of income will be taxable.

 

At the moment I suggest it's not clear whether foreigners who receive old age pensions from abroad (and no other income) will be taxed and whether resident for 180 days is relevant at all.  

And not clear whether having a double tax agreement with the country providing the old age pension monies will make any difference, however perhaps this is a country by country puzzle given that double tax agreements are different country by country.

 

Same question re foreigners who receive permanent war service disability pensions /compensation payments from abroad will be taxable and again whether resident for 180 days is relevant at all. And not clear whether having a double tax agreement with the country providing the old age pension monies will make any difference, However perhaps a country by country puzzle. And not clear whether having a double tax agreement with the country providing the old age pension monies will make any difference, however perhaps this is a country by country puzzle given that double tax agreements are different country by country.

 

If other members have clear answers re the two paragraphs just above would you please share.

Edited January 9 by scorecard

[Mike Lister]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

But seems it's not yet 100% clear what types of income will be taxable.

 

At the moment I suggest it's not clear whether foreigners who receive old age pensions from abroad (and no other income) will be taxed and whether resident for 180 days is relevant at all.  

And not clear whether having a double tax agreement with the country providing the old age pension monies will make any difference, however perhaps this is a country by country puzzle given that double tax agreements are different country by country.

 

Same question re foreigners who receive permanent war service disability pensions /compensation payments from abroad will be taxable and again whether resident for 180 days is relevant at all. And not clear whether having a double tax agreement with the country providing the old age pension monies will make any difference, However perhaps a country by country puzzle. And not clear whether having a double tax agreement with the country providing the old age pension monies will make any difference, however perhaps this is a country by country puzzle given that double tax agreements are different country by country.

 

If other members have clear answers re the two paragraphs just above would you please share.

I don't agree that the things you  mention are not clear.

 

"At the moment I suggest it's not clear whether foreigners who receive old age pensions from abroad (and no other income) will be taxed and whether resident for 180 days is relevant at all".  

 

The second part first: 180 days absolutely is relevant, it is at the heart of the matter. Less than 180 days and the income is 100% not taxable, more than 180 days and it 100% possibly is, depending upon the variables, type of pension, country of origin and DTA.

 

The first part: it depends upon the variables, type of pension, country of origin and DTA.

 

"And not clear whether having a double tax agreement with the country providing the old age pension monies will make any difference",

 

it depends upon the variables, type of pension, country of origin and DTA.

 

"perhaps this is a country by country puzzle given that double tax agreements are different country by country".

 

Is the correct answer!

 

I could take the rest of your post and do exactly the same thing with each sentence but the answer is exactly the same. You seem to already know this but are perhaps looking for a different answer.....there isn't one, it depends upon the variables, type of pension, country of origin and your DTA!

 

BUT, 180 days is all important, it's a key aspect.

 

 

[lexxy]

So how long until TT Exchange start requiring passports for MONEY exchange. Well they already do but will it turn from a photo copy to an online system?

[geisha]

How does this affect tourists ?? 

[geisha]

Just now, lexxy said:

So how long until TT Exchange start requiring passports for MONEY exchange. Well they already do but will it turn from a photo copy to an online system?

They already do ask for passports.For the moment you can always find an exchange that won’t .

[lexxy]

13 minutes ago, geisha said:

They already do ask for passports.For the moment you can always find an exchange that won’t .

 

Correct, but it is only photo copied.

It would not take long to start uploading users license or passport details to a portal.

This is definitely the start of a new era.

 

[decline]

On 1/8/2024 at 7:28 AM, Mike Lister said:

13. If we take the simplest type of income and say that you transfer personal savings from overseas to Thailand and those savings  were earned before 1 January 2024, those funds are not assessable. But savings earned after that date are, hence the date when the income is earned is extremely important. A word of caution, you may be asked to provide proof that savings were earned before 1 January 2024.  

so does this mean they can't tax me for transferring 400k of savings for a non-o visa?

 

It would be sitting in a bank at home December 2023 and transferred to Thailand January 2024

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, decline said:

so does this mean they can't tax me for transferring 400k of savings for a non-o visa?

 

It would be sitting in a bank at home December 2023 and transferred to Thailand January 2024

That is what it means

 

[smedly]

9 hours ago, n00dle said:

that means nothing, you would have to do a border run after 179 days that lasted the rest of the year.

yeah you are probaly right- the billionaire pm and his billionaire friends want to tax falangs, makes it more complicated ..............they are very obviously tageting us, life in Thailand just got very much more complicated,  i spend a lot of  money here in Thailand spanning over 20 years , good luck getting tax out of me, stupid nonsense 

[Mike Lister]

2 hours ago, geisha said:

How does this affect tourists ?? 

It doesn't, tourists are not tax residents in Thailand, unless they remain here for a cumulative 180 days per tax year.

[Mike Lister]

8 hours ago, sadeghsep said:

hi , I'm an Iranian, I'm not working in any type and have no income since my daughter born we agreed that me to be a househusband and take care of my kid also many years ago i gave all my saving to my wife and almost more than 5 years with no transfer , just each year my wife put the money in my account and we extend my visa , should i file something as well ? 

It doesn't appear that you need to file a tax return, because you have no transfers and no income that arises in Thailand.

[Mike Lister]

10 hours ago, CashMoon said:

I'm thinking of sending $60k from my savings in my country to my Thailand account to buy a car. Are they entitled to tax on the $60k I will send? 

 

When were the savings earned? If they were earned prior to 1 January 2024 (which I imagine they must have been), those savings can be imported free of tax. Our present understanding is that transfer of funds represents income that must be assessed for Thai tax, because it exceeds the minimum assessible income threshold to file a tax return. No tax will be due, because those savings were earned (presumably) before 1 January 2024 and are exempt under the current rules. This may seem like an unnecessary process but it does make sense in that it allows the RD to understand the nature of the source of the funds and to account for a decent sized funds transfer. 

[J Branche]

11 hours ago, Jenkins9039 said:

Before Jan 1st.

We'd spend anywhere from 400,000-700,000 THB a month, and then additional 120,000 THB (wife) a month.

 

Since Jan 1st we've moved ALL our insurances overseas (parent companies), we've moved ALL our additional costs where possible (boating costs etc) to their parent companies, all purchasing we do overseas (Amazon etc), basically anything that can be dealt with via a parent/sister company has been routed overseas to those companies, kids education, medical, etc all parent companies overseas.

I'd hazard a guess the Gov are loosing roughly 120,000 THB minimum a month from just my credit card VAT payments.

 

That's without all the other costs, even staff are now paid from overseas, we lost a couple, as they didn't want that, they wanted to continue to be paid in cash from my wife (which we paid tax -reported which was 'savings' - but just so we had no issues...).

 

I looked at my credit card the other day, 3,000 THB spent, bank 10,000 THB.

 

 

The Thai Government should KNOW this.  Wealthy People generally hire very smart, capable CPA's Tax Professionals to structure their clients finances so as they pay the LEAST amount possible but still be Compliant with Thai Tax laws.  The Revenue Department will need to spend XX money to hire skilled Tax Professionals, New Software for Many Many foreign income residents and spend Untold hours inputting the data.

Will the Revenue Department make Any money in return?  This is Not just Thailand, Every country that makes tax changes to the Wealthy soon learns the Wealthy are Very good at paying the least amount required.